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Just to keep this thread alive. Do we know if automonous regions not allowing permanent residents free healthcare are in breach of the law?
The default position offered by agrieved parties concerning the initial interpretation of the 2018 law is that you won't get free healthcare as a permanent resident despite there being a law which confers the right. Surely such a position would have been legally challenged or at least clarified by now?
 
One thing is denying primary care, that is against the law, another thing is later recoverng the cost of the treatment if the patient is not insured under the Spanish SS system.
 
Just to keep this thread alive. Do we know if automonous regions not allowing permanent residents free healthcare are in breach of the law?
The default position offered by agrieved parties concerning the initial interpretation of the 2018 law is that you won't get free healthcare as a permanent resident despite there being a law which confers the right. Surely such a position would have been legally challenged or at least clarified by now?
Can you cite this 'law'?
 
Just to put my two pennyworth - I’ll try to be brief here but happy to post supporting links if anyone is interested.

Firstly, the RD 07/2018 is shown as in effect on the BOE with Article 3 (2) being the basis for publicly funded health care for permanent residents (although you have to do a bit of work to get there). Furthermore, this is confirmed on both the UK Goverment and European Commission web sites which state directly that permanent residents are elligible for publicly funded healthcare.

Secondly as other posters have said, nobody has come on the forum to confirm they have been able to get health care through this route. It’s the same story on other forums and Facebook pages. However what's also interesting is that the INSS are simply refusing to process their applications either dismissing them from the office or putting the paperwork onto an eternal pending pile. Normally, once the initial document check is completed, the application would be processed and the legal basis for any rejection communicated in writing. This was confirmed by my local office. If permanent residents didn’t qualify then I’d expect an organisation as bureaucratic as the INSS to simply process and reject.

Here's what what I think may be happening. One of the provisions of the RD 07/2018 transferred the direct responsibility for checking the eligibility to the right to public health care from the INSS to the Ministry of Health. In contrast to the RD 1192/2012 which not only gave the INSS legal responsibility but also outlined some rules, for example, regarding an appeals process. The re-assigment of responsibility may not have mattered if the Ministry of Health had provided the supporting regulations to the INSS instructing it how to process new applications under the RD 07/2018. However, according to INSS website, it is still waiting on the Government. Here's a link to the relevant text in the Management and Control section;


So without a new rule book, the INSS simply continues to apply the one it already has. (For example, the form for in person applications is still the one from 2012). However, it can’t reject applications from permanent residents since it does not have any legal basis for doing so (the RD 2018 anulled most of RD 2012), neither can it approve them without the new regulations. So It pretends the applications simply don’t exist. This is entirely consistent with the posts from people who have tried to apply down this route

Since the INSS continues to work to the pre-existing processes most people will not see a difference. There’s no change either for foreign citizens whose countries have a social security arrangement with Spain. And, of course, the key beneficiaries of the RD 2018, los sin papeles, have their applications processed by the Autonomous Communties rather than the INSS
So I would guess UK citizens (and maybe USA, Australia etc?) are disproportionately affected. The other clear beneficiary of RD 2018 would be those with an income of over 100,000 euros pa. Probably not the groups foremost in the Governments scale of priorities.

Finally, the long awaited el Proyecto de Ley de Universalidad del Sistema Nacional de Salud (SNS) has started it’s legislative journey. It contains the same provision regarding permanent residents as the RD 2018. If it ever gets into the BOE, It might be worth applying again.
 
The above post appears to be accurate and articulates the thinking behind system which is if you are a non Spanish national and you or partner contribute or have contributed through work you get healthcare. The only other way is when your country agree to pay Spanish government for healthcare or you pay the local government ( once resident) or you have private healthcare. So in a nut shell no one gets free healthcare irrespective of how long you may have lived in Spain.
 
Just to put my two pennyworth - I’ll try to be brief here but happy to post supporting links if anyone is interested.

Firstly, the RD 07/2018 is shown as in effect on the BOE with Article 3 (2) being the basis for publicly funded health care for permanent residents (although you have to do a bit of work to get there). Furthermore, this is confirmed on both the UK Goverment and European Commission web sites which state directly that permanent residents are elligible for publicly funded healthcare.

Secondly as other posters have said, nobody has come on the forum to confirm they have been able to get health care through this route. It’s the same story on other forums and Facebook pages. However what's also interesting is that the INSS are simply refusing to process their applications either dismissing them from the office or putting the paperwork onto an eternal pending pile. Normally, once the initial document check is completed, the application would be processed and the legal basis for any rejection communicated in writing. This was confirmed by my local office. If permanent residents didn’t qualify then I’d expect an organisation as bureaucratic as the INSS to simply process and reject.

Here's what what I think may be happening. One of the provisions of the RD 07/2018 transferred the direct responsibility for checking the eligibility to the right to public health care from the INSS to the Ministry of Health. In contrast to the RD 1192/2012 which not only gave the INSS legal responsibility but also outlined some rules, for example, regarding an appeals process. The re-assigment of responsibility may not have mattered if the Ministry of Health had provided the supporting regulations to the INSS instructing it how to process new applications under the RD 07/2018. However, according to INSS website, it is still waiting on the Government. Here's a link to the relevant text in the Management and Control section;


So without a new rule book, the INSS simply continues to apply the one it already has. (For example, the form for in person applications is still the one from 2012). However, it can’t reject applications from permanent residents since it does not have any legal basis for doing so (the RD 2018 anulled most of RD 2012), neither can it approve them without the new regulations. So It pretends the applications simply don’t exist. This is entirely consistent with the posts from people who have tried to apply down this route

Since the INSS continues to work to the pre-existing processes most people will not see a difference. There’s no change either for foreign citizens whose countries have a social security arrangement with Spain. And, of course, the key beneficiaries of the RD 2018, los sin papeles, have their applications processed by the Autonomous Communties rather than the INSS
So I would guess UK citizens (and maybe USA, Australia etc?) are disproportionately affected. The other clear beneficiary of RD 2018 would be those with an income of over 100,000 euros pa. Probably not the groups foremost in the Governments scale of priorities.

Finally, the long awaited el Proyecto de Ley de Universalidad del Sistema Nacional de Salud (SNS) has started it’s legislative journey. It contains the same provision regarding permanent residents as the RD 2018. If it ever gets into the BOE, It might be worth applying again.
I have free health care With permanent residency. I was paying into the convenio especial for 5 years and got an email from the administrator in my region saying if I got my permanent TIE card I could get free state healthcare. Got the TIE, went to the INSS office, they said no. Went back to the convenio especial administrator, a quick phone call and we were called back into the INSS office. We got our certificates there and then and we got our local health centre where they printed out our SIP cards. Our convenio especial payments have been cancelled and our prescription charges have gone from €80 per month down to €11. very happy.
 
There is no 5 year entitlement forseen in any Spanish law or regulation on Social Security coverage as far as we know.

You are either considered as being an insured person due to your contributions (by working, by reciprocal agreements with other governments or by special "convenio") or you are not, in which case you would need full private cover.
I have free health care With permanent residency. I was paying into the convenio especial for 5 years and got an email from the administrator in my region saying if I got my permanent TIE card I could get free state healthcare. Got the TIE, went to the INSS office, they said no. Went back to the convenio especial administrator, a quick phone call and we were called back into the INSS office. We got our certificates there and then, we then went to our local health centre where they printed out our SIP cards. Our convenio especial payments have been cancelled and our prescription charges have gone from €80 per month down to €11. very happy. We are 9 years away from an S1 entitlement so it’s going to save us over €15,000.
 
I have free health care With permanent residency. I was paying into the convenio especial for 5 years and got an email from the administrator in my region saying if I got my permanent TIE card I could get free state healthcare. Got the TIE, went to the INSS office, they said no. Went back to the convenio especial administrator, a quick phone call and we were called back into the INSS office. We got our certificates there and then, we then went to our local health centre where they printed out our SIP cards. Our convenio especial payments have been cancelled and our prescription charges have gone from €80 per month down to €11. very happy. We are 9 years away from an S1 entitlement so it’s going to save us over €15,000.

Where do you live? And who / what is the administrator?
 
I have free health care With permanent residency. I was paying into the convenio especial for 5 years and got an email from the administrator in my region saying if I got my permanent TIE card I could get free state healthcare. Got the TIE, went to the INSS office, they said no. Went back to the convenio especial administrator, a quick phone call and we were called back into the INSS office. We got our certificates there and then and we got our local health centre where they printed out our SIP cards. Our convenio especial payments have been cancelled and our prescription charges have gone from €80 per month down to €11. very happy.
Congratulations - it's good to hear a success story! Interesting though that you had to the Convenio Especial administrador to intervene.
 
Comunidad Valencia
So this is very interesting as we have been waiting a long time to find someone who has achieved this. So in order to try and discover what has happened- You were contacted by the administrator of the convenio and told you no longer were to pay because you now qualified for free healthcare because you had been resident 5 years? Did they phone or give this advice by
letter/ email. Did they do this in Spanish?
When did you get residency in Spain?
Then you were told to go to INSS who rejected it. You then contacted the person who then contacted INSS who relented and gave you a letter to take to the central salud where you were given a SIP?
If you don't mind could you say where this happened in Valencia and what the name of contact of the person was as I would love to be able to find out if this is something new and how it might apply to me if I stop working before my retirement?.

I assume you must have been working at some stage though because if you don't have an S1 then Spain is paying your healthcare without any contributions so why would you need an S1 in 9 years?
 
I have free health care With permanent residency. I was paying into the convenio especial for 5 years and got an email from the administrator in my region saying if I got my permanent TIE card I could get free state healthcare. Got the TIE, went to the INSS office, they said no. Went back to the convenio especial administrator, a quick phone call and we were called back into the INSS office. We got our certificates there and then and we got our local health centre where they printed out our SIP cards. Our convenio especial payments have been cancelled and our prescription charges have gone from €80 per month down to €11. very happy.
Please could you help with a couple of questions?
- when you were initially refused by the INSS, did they give you a a formal rejection letter citing the legal basis?

- following the intervention by the Convenio Especial administrador, did the INSS approval doc contain any reference to the law under which you'd be granted healthcare.

Thank you.
 
So this is very interesting as we have been waiting a long time to find someone who has achieved this. So in order to try and discover what has happened- You were contacted by the administrator of the convenio and told you no longer were to pay because you now qualified for free healthcare because you had been resident 5 years? Did they phone or give this advice by
letter/ email. Did they do this in Spanish?
When did you get residency in Spain?
Then you were told to go to INSS who rejected it. You then contacted the person who then contacted INSS who relented and gave you a letter to take to the central salud where you were given a SIP?
If you don't mind could you say where this happened in Valencia and what the name of contact of the person was as I would love to be able to find out if this is something new and how it might apply to me if I stop working before my retirement?.

I assume you must have been working at some stage though because if you don't have an S1 then Spain is paying your healthcare without any contributions so why would you need an S1 in 9 years?
@Tony9288 It would be great if we could see some of these documents because I for one would love to see the justification of the issue of the certificate.

By the way, if posted on here, make sure to censor any personal info!
 
Let's home the poster gets back. The fact that some administrator with the convenio contacts you ( with good news!) and says now you have been here 5 years and you get a TIE you get free healthcare seems strange. The reason being it never actually says five years or permanent in the law- that's just how expat websites interpreted it! It simply says something like people who are not required to show evidence to maintain residency. Secondly what does the TIE do that is a requirement? Still if it happened then obviously this must be a new protocol and one that should start to appear everywhere which would be great.
 
As often happens. Someone pops up saying they have free healthcare through permanent residence and then disappear if asked for details. Not saying they are lying but probably they get confused about things and it isnt exactly what they think or it has occurred by different means from what they thought. This recent OP seems to have just joined posted once and then disappeared which is a shame if they actually have genuinely got proof and contact numbers which they could share.
 
I plan to immigrate to Spain. I am disabled and do not work. I will be bringing money into the Spanish economy however because I have income from other sources. Will I qualify for Spanish health coverage after five years? Or is that only for working people?
by the looks of what people are saying the answer is "no"
 
The old chestnut again.

Well boys n gals I have been on the phone to the solicitor who dealt with our original residency application to begin to start the ball rolling on our permamnt card (cant start the process until the end of August) but I wanted to know what the process would be (I like details) So I thought I would ask our rocking horse manure question.

After she had finished laughing she sent me a link here.


The wording that affects most of us is below.

Citizens of an EU Member State or of a State party to the EEA Agreement, and family members who are not nationals of one of these States, who have been legally resident in Spain for a continuous period of five years acquire the right of permanent residence and are therefore entitled to healthcare in the SNS at public expense and do not need to sign the special agreement

What this means is technically those of us on the pre brexit TIE (withdrawal agreement one that allows work and residence, because we were still considered to be EU citizens) could in theory get FULLY FREE healthcare on the public system.
Anyone from the UK (who arrived after 2020) or ANY other thrid country cannot however avail themselves of this because they are not considered to be EU CITIZENS.

But while this may be the case, my solicitor has not heard of ONE single case where anyone has had any success and they have made applications on other peoples behalf for this...
As to why she said 'the SNS view any person who has had the means to pay for either private care or has enrolled in the Convenio for the previous five years as not being in need of free healthcare and have been advised to continue their current provision."

If they stop paying and then go to hospital, of course all emergency treatment will be provided but any care after will be charged and she mentioned one person was billed at 150% of the actual cost of the treatment.
 
The old chestnut again.

Well boys n gals I have been on the phone to the solicitor who dealt with our original residency application to begin to start the ball rolling on our permamnt card (cant start the process until the end of August) but I wanted to know what the process would be (I like details) So I thought I would ask our rocking horse manure question.

After she had finished laughing she sent me a link here.


The wording that affects most of us is below.

Citizens of an EU Member State or of a State party to the EEA Agreement, and family members who are not nationals of one of these States, who have been legally resident in Spain for a continuous period of five years acquire the right of permanent residence and are therefore entitled to healthcare in the SNS at public expense and do not need to sign the special agreement

What this means is technically those of us on the pre brexit TIE (withdrawal agreement one that allows work and residence, because we were still considered to be EU citizens) could in theory get FULLY FREE healthcare on the public system.
Anyone from the UK (who arrived after 2020) or ANY other thrid country cannot however avail themselves of this because they are not considered to be EU CITIZENS.

But while this may be the case, my solicitor has not heard of ONE single case where anyone has had any success and they have made applications on other peoples behalf for this...
As to why she said 'the SNS view any person who has had the means to pay for either private care or has enrolled in the Convenio for the previous five years as not being in need of free healthcare and have been advised to continue their current provision."

If they stop paying and then go to hospital, of course all emergency treatment will be provided but any care after will be charged and she mentioned one person was billed at 150% of the actual cost of the treatment.
Wow, that's quite a find!

I had never seen this page. I wonder what made Sanidad state this "fact" on an official website when the laws only oblige them to provide free healthcare to people with no obligation to obtain healthcare for themselves?

I hev repeatedly posted this fact (from law) on this thread and I have never seen any other law or decree which supports what Sanidad are saying on this website.

The problem is that a website, although an official gob.es. site, is not binding and is not law, so its no surprise that the lawyers are having trouble applying the idea stated.

But I think it is relevant that it is stated here and I certainly would try to get free health care if I didn't have it by waving this in their face.

More of a moral argyument than a legal one, but still......
 
Just plucked this from Facebook.

"Today we heard that we ARE to receive free healthcare.
We live in Murcia
We are not yet of the age to receive S1.
We pay taxes here (both have private pensions )
We are permanent residents (received our new card recently)
Our initial application was refused.
Gestor reapplied showing a download of the rules from the social security site stating if you are a permanent resident you are entitled to the healthcare.
We also then had to have an up to date document from the UK (NHS Business service) stating we were NOT entitled to healthcare in the UK. Ours was from 2020. We rang them and it was sorted and in our inboxes in minutes.
This was submitted 28th April. Today we got confirmation.
So it can be done. We don’t normally use a gestor but felt this time we would.
PLEASE do try if you are in this position. Good luck."
 
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