International schools might well be open - at least one in my area definitely is

state schools will be officially closed, although I know that my dd2's class teacher will be working

what usually happens in state schools is that some of the staff will be on hand to supervise any kids who go to school but there won't be any actual teaching

a teacher explained to me a few years ago that they have to provide somewhere for the kids to go by law - but don't actually have to teach them on a strike day

mind you that was just a teacher's strike - not a general national strike

I'm planning that my 2 will be home for the day

 

Here schools will be open as you can't officially close ahead of a strike.
Teachers, like everyone else have a right to strike, and are not obliged to say beforehand if they're going on strike or not (defeats the purpose if they do). However, especially in primary schools, teachers may decide to tell students and/ or parents ahead of time of their intentions.
So in reality the schools will be open and there will be a skeleton staff which will insure that the children are "looked after", but probably there won't be any teaching done.

 

yes, that's exactly what happens here - they never officially tell us until the end of school the day before

 

Does anybody here think that striking will help the situation in any way?

 

Does a strike ever help a country going through a financial crisis?

 

It's always struck me that striking is a particularly negative way of making a point.

An analogy; the ship has sprung a leak and is sinking. The crew perceives it as the captain's fault, in fact everybody else's fault but their own. The captain does the only thing he can do under the circumstances, he reduces the crew's rest time and sets them to bailing the ship. They demonstrate their displeasure by refusing.

Doesn't make much sense to me.

 

But now the ship has sunk. The crew and captain are in the life boat. They are short of water and beginning to deteriorate. But the captain has a large bottle of water but he is not sharing.

So the crew say c'est la vie. He is the captain and we are scum crew. His live is worth ten of ours

 

At least you know your place

 

Talking about ships and crew.

Almost fifty years ago Great Britain flew the red duster on ships all over the world and the vast majority of the crew were U.K. or Irish citizens, and to sail had to be members of the National Union of Seamen.

Then in 1966, the said N.U.S. called an all out strike and when the ships returned to a U.K. port the seamen duly went on strike and the ships were laid up.

The British red duster still flies on the stern of merchant ships, but the crews however are from third world countries, the National Union of seamen no longer exists. Thousands of jobs for British Seamen were lost, never to be regained. All as a result of strike action.

 

You forgot to mention that the strike was about a reduction in their working hours from 56 to 40 hours a week, and was widely supported by members. The shipping lines didn't want to pay overtime rates.

The strike in Spain is only for one day, it's not intended to bring down the government or the employers or even the captain of the ship. It's just a way of venting frustration!

 

I think the consensus here is that demonstrating in some way is good (Pesky's photo is awesome) but striking is not the way to do it.

We had all that in the UK back in the 1970's. It did nobody any good really.

Except, of course, that the non-striking population voted in Maggie with a massive majority. She then did what the majority wanted and very effectively destroyed the unions and old labour. Now if you count that as a good result, then perhaps there is some benefit to be had from striking...

 

Of course, if it wasn't for unions, we wouldn't have had the equal pay act, maternity leave, a five-day week, paid holidays, effective safety precautions in factories ... None of these things would have been achieved without ultimate sanction of workers being able to withdraw their labour. Employers are not altruistic.

Found this nice example of a successful strike in Spain:

"In the region of Alcoy, Spain, workers struck in 1873 for the eight-hour day following much agitation from the anarchists. In 1919 in Barcelona, after a 44-day general strike with over 100,000 participants had effectively crippled the Catalan economy, the Government in Barcelona settled the strike by granting all the striking workers demands that included an eight-hour day, union recognition, and the rehiring of fired workers. Spain was the first country to pass a national eight-hour day law."

 

Thinking about it, I would probably concede that over the last 150 years, unions (and I mean unions and not strikes) have largely benefited society as a whole. It's just that my experience of them has been almost wholly negative. It has a mob-handedness, blackmail feel to it that I don't like. There has to be a better way. Perhaps it's a 1970's thing.hwell:

 

Once upon a time unions were valuable and necessary to prevent and stop unscrupulous employers exploiting workers. But in these modern times they've outlived their usefulness and from what I can see its the unions that are replacing the unscrupulous employers now and are just making money out of their memberships. What a lot of people dont realise is that union leaders earn a lot of money and to justify their incomes (given to them by their members), they make a lot of noise and keep disputes and disruptions going! IMO, its a big con/protection racket!!

Jo xxx

 

Firstly perhaps I should say, I am not, as most of you probably know, driven by politics. I do not know all the ins and outs of the general strike called for on Sept 29th (and I have to say that few people here probably do).
I do think that a massive demonstration in Spain against current policies and possibly against the current govenment would be a great way to vent anger, frustration and make the world take more notice of Spain and the situation Spain finds itself in.
A strike is different.
I myself have participated in two strikes in Spain already. In 1992 there was a general strike and in 1993 there was a strike in my workplace which I was against, but took part in as is it was the action taken by the reps. The company closed down...
PS My husband will be on strike on Wednesday - I haven't decided yet.

 

As Jo said ,Once upon a time unions were valuable and necessary to prevent and stop unscrupulous employers exploiting workers. What happened is that with the 'closed-shop' where everyone had to be member of the union the unscrupulous mambers realised that by becoming union officials they controlled what went on whilst being paid a 'wage' by the unions ,not having to do much work for which they were employed by being on 'union duties.' Most members rarely attended meetings where you only needed 4 or 5 members to vote through anything they wanted. They moved on from this , with the backing of the unions, into politics.
My maternal grandfather was a registered waterman & lighterman & was employed to row barges up the Thames in the days before tugs! This is where the excellence at rowing that has won GB so many medals started from.
He was at the forefront campaigning for union representation to stop the pitiful scenes of men standing on bricks outside the dock gates,to make themselves look taller , to obtain a days work.
As with everything that starts with good, well-founded intentions, they are eventually hi-jacked by the sly, conniving scum that use them to further their own ends & using the membership to gain them, whilst not suffering any hardship themselves as they are employed by the union !
I had to join a union when I 1st started work as it was a closed -shop, it didn't take long before I asked the question " why am I going on strike when your getting paid ? " You soon learn how to fight !! I always maintain that if the union representatives want to call for strike action then they don't get paid either, & these days some of the salaries paid to ' union officials' are scandalous.

 

Gus its worth noting that Spanish unions are not set up like UK unions. There are fundamental differences in funding, control and worker participation. I have a member of my spanish family who was a bus driver in Madrid but now works for the union. He gets better pay, works less hours, and eats and drinks well at the many meetings he attends. Sadly he makes little attempt to cover why he likes the job.

As you say the old style UK unions had their role up until the early 70s. Now the new style unions (and yes there are still bits of the bad old days lying around) have a different role and yes despite their value they can be manipulated.

But of course spain's working conditions for many are the equivalent of those in the UK in the 50s/60s. Sadly the good unions that the UK had then do not exist in Spain today.

But we will see what happens Wednesday and how eye witness reports differ from the governments view. And what comfort Mr Bean can offer.

 

Spain's grandparents urged to strike!!

Spain's burnt out 'babysitter grandparents' urged to strike | World news | The Guardian

PS Is the 3 hour lunch break still on or is it a myth spread around by foreign journalists?
I know of, or people who work in, about 10 different companies here. None of them have more than an hour at lunch time. Two companies I know of have less!! (45 mins and 30mins and go home earlier - 17:00 or 17:30) In some companies the employees go home between 17:30 and 18:30 almost always. In others they have an hour lunch break, but they stay until 20:00, 21:00... or more! This is in multinational, medium and PYME's (small)
I think the long lunch break is in practice in some shops - and less and les as time goes by - or is that just in the Madrid area??

 

I don't know anyone who has a long break either - except in the shops as you say, and in the primary schools - where you see the teachers walk out of the building at 12.30 & back in at 3pm

 

No ,it still exists down here , anything from 1pm 'till 5 or 5,30pm. Not just shops but offices, driving schools, insurance brokers, all gestorias, most of the factories & material suppliers.

 

The siesta was a sensible way of keeping out of the midday heat and in years gone by people did slow down or close up during that period. But its probably not as necessary now we have aircon and modern living!! And I'm not sure its always used as a sleep time, just a time to slow down and stay indoors!?

Jo xxx

 

Oh no nigele2, the siesta is alive & well down here !! My wife's been known to have one in the morning.

 

Gus stop it, I'm trying to work.

 

Around here, it is like a graveyard between 2 and 5. The school packs up for the day at 2.30.

 

Well, my question was about the break, not the siesta - different things!
I think very, very, very few people actually use the 3 hour break to sleep in - 20 mins, half an hour maybe. And, as I said, round here not many people get that long afternoon break anyway.
When I first came to Madrid a lot of people used this time to go to the gym, have their English classes etc
Sorry
:focus:

 

Does anyone know if the trains will be running, cos my two catch the train to school and they insist that they're not going to be????

Jo xxx

 

They are running a very restricted service, so basically....No!

 

Call me blonde, but where does it say its not going to???

Jo xx

 

The Zap Gov. have agreed with the unions that they will operate a 20% service. If you go to the cercanias site for instance and type in a couple of destinations for our local services you will see how for trips there will be on the 29th compared to other dates. I guess you are supposed to know from what has been said on the news.

tp://www.renfe.com/viajeros/cercanias/malaga/index.html

 

I am suposed to be going into Hospital on wednesday for an operation (only a day job thankfully), better check with them, although its an insurance job so I guess private sector wont be affected (espero!).

I KNOW with my luck they will be running on skeleton staff and I will have a cleaner or handyman improvising as the anethatist. :noidea: - mark my words!!!

On another note (totally off subject), I went for a pre-op apopintment last week and guess who were making a delivery (a large delivery) - Cruzcampo.....i kid you not! Now should I be worried that my op is scheduled for immediately after the surgeons lunch break?:help:

 

They use Cruzcampo for transfusions for the British bar-proppers

 

Who organises the strike? We at work got a letter from the labour/workers union stating that we were all welcome to join the strike if we wish to. Since it started with saying how bad neo-liberalism was, I suppose it's the socialist parties organising the strike?

 

The Izquierda Unida and the unions are organising it.
Materiales "Huelga General 29-S" | IZQUIERDA UNIDA.

The PSOE is against it at a national level, obviously, because they are the ones making the cuts. Though at local level lots of PSOE ayuntamientos are unofficially in favour.

 

dd2 has been told by her teacher that she has to go in cos he's working

however if the school bus isn't running I can't get her there...................

 

Over the weekend and today at work I was asking people about the strike. No one I talked to was going to go on strike. Here are the reasons given - in no particular order.
- A strike doesn't contribute anything to the situation. It just means that the country will lose a day's work and a considerable amount of money
- The people don't feel they have been given an alternative. They might not want Zappie as their president, but they don't want Rajoy either and unfortunately there isn't any other party in the running for presidency. There's no charismatic leader.
- Each worker will lose a considerable amount of money, not just a day's wages, but all the other components that have to be factored in.
- The time is not right, if it had been sooner perhaps, but people feel that the unions supported Zappie's decisions at the beginning, but then decided to strike and now is too late
- There is no group feeling. There are too many groups thinking about their different gripes and no leader has been able to bond them together.

Of course many people may be forced to "not work" because of the transport workers.
We'll just have to see what happens on Wednesday

 

Interesting. Similar feelings round my neck of the woods - the apolitical aren´t motivated, and the others are just frustrated.

 

Last time, most of the schools etc (including my kids state school) stayed open here, but will wait and see. At this time of year, when only half-days anyway, less of an issue than when full days that need rearranging!

 

Spoke to the head and our (state) school is definitely open & teaching.....my three are rather disappointed.

 

For those who worry about the schools... As far as I know striking is also the right of the pupils/students. Not 100% sure but in Belgium it was legal, I would assume it would be similar in other EU jurisdictions?

Back in last year of secondary school there was outrage over a certain case and all students were saying they would love a strike. That was between the hours ... When dialogue with the teacher didn't really resolve the situation I stood up and called for a strike. All the others, who in fact would love to strike, suddenly didn't dare to out that desire while the teacher was there...

Tomorrow none of my colleagues is striking as far as I know. I probably won't be neither but only because I have the luck of having a very good and friendly relationship with my superior and majority of colleagues and I hate to let them down. I support those striking though and am looking around to join a political organisation (not necessarily a party) as I feel like doing something idealistic.

 

Tomorrow none of my colleagues is striking as far as I know. I probably won't be neither but only because I have the luck of having a very good and friendly relationship with my superior and majority of colleagues and I hate to let them down. I support those striking though and am looking around to join a political organisation (not necessarily a party) as I feel like doing something idealistic.

IMO thats how everyone should feel about striking, dont do it because you're letting other people down, whether you have a good and friendly relationship or not, shouldnt come into the equasion!! I spoke to a spanish chap today who was going to work tomorrow, but was too frightened to work in his own town for fear of repercussions - how awful is that?????? Mob rule! I cannot understand why strikers feel they have the right to harrass those who dont want to strike, its still a democracy!

Jo xxx