test

 

Test

 

I guess the bill is correct and I will always pay the tax for social contribution to France and get the reimbursement from US IRS when I file tax in US? ...does this sound right?

No, under the French-U.S. income tax treaty, American citizens do not have to pay the the CSG/CRDS on U.S. source investment income. This is because the CSG/CRDS is considered a "tax" under French law, and the treaty exempts American citizens from French taxes on their U.S.-source investment income. See, for example, this response from the Ministère de l'économie de des finances:

Conformément à la jurisprudence du Conseil constitutionnel, la contribution sociale généralisée (CSG) revêt le caractère d'une imposition de toute nature au sens de l'article 34 de la Constitution. Dès lors, pour l'application des conventions fiscales conclues par la France en matière d'impôt sur le revenu, celle-ci considère généralement la CSG et la contribution pour le remboursement de la dette sociale (CRDS) comme des impôts sur les revenus dans le champ d'application des conventions.

Not all tax offices are aware of this; I was charged the tax several years ago and had to challenge it, but I ultimately got them to reverse the tax and haven't had any problems since.

It is much better not to pay the tax in the first place than to rely on getting a credit on your U.S. taxes.

 

Thank you so much for your input on the forum regarding my questions about social.
Mind if I ask you how you got them to reverse the tax? (did you hire a professional?)
My French is not good and dealing with the French bureaucracy has been a nightmare so just thinking about challenging a complicated issue like this is daunting...

(And your comment -- " It is much better not to pay the tax in the first place than to rely on getting a credit on your U.S. taxes."...of course I agree w/ this as I prefer not to pay this upfront, but mind eleborating? If I do challenge it but France rejects it and I end up paying upfront, I do get the foreign tax credit eventually from US, right? .. Maybe it's better if I message you separately... anyways, thank you so much. You gave me some hope.

 

As a first step, just make an appointment with someone in the tax office and show them the page that I linked in my first reply. That may take care of it. The people who work in the tax offices are usually very helpful.

I see no reason why you wouldn't be eligible for the credit on your US taxes, but I don't know any more about that than you do. Keep in mind, however, that the US foreign tax credit is only valid up to the amount of US taxes you paid on the income in question. So if the CSG/CRDS exceeds what you paid in the US, you wouldn't be able to recover the difference.

 

test

 

Trying to see if my "problem" posting to this thread has fixed itself overnight. But newyorkerinparis' suggestion is about what I was going to suggest next. Unlike the IRS, the French Fisc is very willing to correct "mistakes" they may have made. Just don't say that you think they've made a mistake. <g>

Approach them with the "help me to understand this" approach (much easier for us foreigners, especially with far less than fluent French!) and just show them the reference (ideally from a French source, if you can find one - the Fisc website if there is something there on the topic). You may also want to go through with them exactly how your filled out your 2047 form - since for most foreign source income, you need to report it in a couple different places, and if you put it on the wrong line on the back page (sections 6, 7 and 8 I think it is) you may have inadvertently classified it as income subject to some version of the social withholdings. (Ask me how I know this. <ggg>)

 

One last question before I approach them -- one complication is that we moved from Paris to Saint Germain En Laye in April 2022 but on my tax bill, the prefecture that sent me the bill is still from Paris (16e) and not Saint Germain En Laye. And under "Vos references" the "Adresse d'imposition au 01/01/2023 lists my old Paris address even though the mailing address was correctly listed as the one in Saint Germain En Laye. And under "Vos contacts" the "Sur place" lists the contact RDV : SIP Paris 16E Auteuil. SO my question -- do I book an RDV with Paris 16e (ie the one who sent me the tax bill and the prefecture for my old address) or with Saint Germain En Laye - the prefecture of my current residence to contest this bill (...politely with "help me to understand this" attitude of course. Merci beaucoup.

 

No you do not go to the Prefecture.You go to the tax office and I would go to the one where you are residing now.
Did you update your address in your online account ? If not I would do it now

 

Sorry yes I mean tax dept. Ok will go to the one in Saint Germain En Laye. Merci!!

 

Hello. In going through this situation, I learned that there's potentially another tax bill coming in November or December from PUMA (Assurance Maladie) which started in 2018 asking for another social tax for being part of the security sociale ....does anybody know anything about this? (who has to pay, how much, what are the exemptions, etc.). It never ends...