Folks who live in the south of France will be along with their comments, but everything I've heard says that the south of France has much the same "Mediterranean" mentality as you'll find in Spain, Italy, Greece, etc.

But most of all, I'd tend to say that you'll be at a huge disadvantage in southern France if you don't speak the language to a conversational degree at the very least. I would think that might be the case, too, for Spain, but perhaps not so much so.
Cheers,
Bev

 

Speaking the language




Thanks Bev. I did French to A level and am hoping that it would come back as a good base for further improvement. Admittedly it was a very long time ago! My Spanish is rudimentary at best though I'm learning.

 

Whilst some administrative matters can vary from one Prefecture to another and one Mairie to another, the arrangements in France are, IMHO, far easier to deal with than in Spain and are far less fragmented. Plus, it's relatively easy to get into the French health system via PUMA after 3 months demonstrated continuous residency in France (although you would need private health insurance for a longer period than that to cover what can be fairly lengthy application processing times) - that's if you don't have an S1 - you would also need to take out top-up (mutuelle) cover once you are in the French system, which generally only covers you for 70% of health care costs. Perhaps one of the difficult things though is getting a carte de sejour because it's officially not necessary for EU citizens - however, I would strongly recommend that if you decide to move to France you make every endeavour to obtain one, especially as no one know what will happen with Brexit.

Perhaps the biggest downside is that the cost of living is higher.

Oh, and some people might well choose an area that doesn't have a strong Front National presence (be aware that quite a number of local council's in the south are held by the FN), which can cause frictions within in the local communities.

Also, it's not as easy to rent a property in France as it is in Spain (other than seasonal lets), far from it, in fact, given the standard requirements for guarantor and that the rent not exceed 1/3 of your income. Oh, and in order to get a long-term rental you will need a French bank account showing regular income deposits. Also, property purchase generally takes a minimum 3 months and in the vast majority of cases it is the purchaser who pays the agent's fees (normally 10% of purchase price). However, France has a system where vendors have to provide a detailed diagnostic report on such things as electrical supply and energy use, which is very useful for buyers.

Be aware that things like building works, plumbing, electricals and the like are expensive in France by UK standards and if you purchase a property that requires renovation it is likely to cost you an arm and a leg.

Utilities are generally reliable (although can work out expensive) if you live in an urban area, but once you get into more rural areas connections can be difficult. Internet access, speed and reliability depend entirely on where you choose to live.

 

Cost of living

Perhaps the biggest downside is that the cost of living is higher.

I'm interested in the cost of living being higher and wondering about 'like for like'. Eg we've discovered that the sort of property we want, modern, spacious, good quality build, full central heating and a/c, modern kitchen etc etc, within easy reach of town and coast, costs about the same rent as in the UK. Just a bit bigger and with more sunshine! The only things we are finding cheaper in Spain than in the UK for the quality we look for are wine and local produce, some clothing and shoes. Yes you can eat out really cheaply, but food and drink at the higher end restaurants are about the same as in the UK. (south at that) Apart from water the utilities are more expensive. Would all that be the same in southern France? Ie comparing middle income professionals living costs?

 

We have property in both Spain and France (originally Frejus but now just outside a sous-prefecture in Lot-et-Garonne). We decided that Spain was not for us but that France would suit us. The reasons for rejecting Spain had nothing to do with utilities, officialdom etc.

To tackle some of your points:

1. Officialdom : France is the diva of paperwork. It is a well known fact. Who accepts what can vary from one member of staff to another in the same office, and then of course paperwork can have to go on a circuitous route to the ministry and thus provide opportunities for losses etc en route. However your property tax bills get delivered to you rather than having to go and collect them.

2. La Poste: throughput of mail is reducing by 5-7 per cent a year so it is looking to diversify e.g. checking on the elderly for a fee. Certain village bureaux de poste are now agencies so don't accept large parcels, these have to go elsewhere and for cheapness select another carrier whose label you have printed out for yourself. The main postal bureaux are highly mechanised except for the banking services they provide. You want a stamp? Go to the machine etc. Post deliveries are regular, but rarely to the door, just to a box they can get to by car.

3. Electricity: ours has much improved in the last 5 years regarding fewer cuts for other people's works. However, you have to select with your supplier, in advance, what level of power you require and pay a standing charge accordingly. If you go over your powerlevel at any time, the toaster could blow the system!

4. Deliveries to the house: we find it is very rare that we are notified of a delivery that is NOT coming on a Thursday. Other deliveries go to local garages, cafés, or shops and then we have to go to collect them; these occur daily and may not incur a delivery charge.

5. We were able to get broadband internet swiftly but as more users were added it became unusable for certain periods of the day. Eventually we discovered that we got a 4G signal that degraded less so now use a mobile phone. French mobile internet seems to be much cheaper than Spanish.

6. Lunch times rule: everybody closes or stops for lunch at 12 or 12.30 and rarely recommence before 14.00. Since almost everybody goes home for lunch sales callers make their calls then, as well as people phoning to rearrange appointments etc.

The top 5 good points we notice about Spain:

1. Tolls on the motorways are lower.
2. Our weekly shop, whilst different, is about half what we spend in France.
3. Shop staff genuinely want to serve you and not just go through the motions.
4. Restaurants are very good value and there is a variety of them in most towns.
5. Public facilities are generally very good.

 

I have no trouble with mail to my door, nor with parcel deliveries to the door, plus I pretty much know what time parcels will be delivered. I don't have problems with power supply, however that would depend entirely on the contract you choose! I don't find the paperwork particularly onerous either, but then I have French nationality (multiple nationalities actually), plus most administrative things are for me easier than they were in Australia. We are lucky here as Pau has very high-speed fibre optic internet.

I agree that Autoroute tolls are very expensive.

Strikes can sometimes occur very suddenly and, even when you get advance notification they can be extended. IMO strikes and demonstration will start up again in September and could be very disruptive.

The administration becomes very slow in July/August as a result of the summer vacation period and the backlog can sometimes extend for a couple of months beyond that.

 

I feel I have a better quality of life and better potential for income in France
to spend advantageously for holiday or leasure in Spain.

 

I think it may well depend on what your expectations are. For example, I note in your post:

Eg we've discovered that the sort of property we want, modern, spacious, good quality build, full central heating and a/c, modern kitchen etc etc, within easy reach of town and coast, costs about the same rent as in the UK.

"Modern" and "full central heating and a/c" are considerably harder to come by in France. Maybe, as EverHopeful has said, you'd have better luck in PACA (south-eastern France) in the more well-to-do (and thus more expensive) areas, say, Nice, Cannes, Antibes. But central heating and a/c are rarities in much of France - perhaps simply a function of the housing stock being of a certain age.
Cheers,
Bev

 

I think it may well depend on what your expectations are. For example, I note in your post:


"Modern" and "full central heating and a/c" are considerably harder to come by in France. Maybe, as EverHopeful has said, you'd have better luck in PACA (south-eastern France) in the more well-to-do (and thus more expensive) areas, say, Nice, Cannes, Antibes. But central heating and a/c are rarities in much of France - perhaps simply a function of the housing stock being of a certain age.
Cheers,
Bev

A/c is actually less of an issue in the PACA than you may think, especially close to the larger towns "Full central heating" though is another issue - many people still rely on open fireplaces (some have installed an 'insert' - can't remember the English ) and also have electric heaters, or use the reverse cycle a/c, or have central heating through those water-filled radiators that is heated via pot-belly stoves and the like, modern homes might well have central heating and are not only to be found in Nice, Cannes, Antibes. That said, the style of home the OP seems to be talking about would be more common in the expensive areas, especially if the OP is looking to rent rather than purchase. Best thing to do is perhaps look at sites such as seloger etc. Water charges do vary by area, however many communes share services with others with a view to reducing costs and this is certainly tha case in the PACA.

 

I was reading it as central (heating and a/c). Comes, I suppose, from my American background. Central climate control is more or less a given these days over there. (Not something I grew up with - central heating, yes, but a/c was distinctly a luxury item, most often a window unit limited to the bedrooms. But I digress.) I would expect quite a bit more a/c in the south, but not necessarily "central a/c". But, perhaps I'm reading my own experience into it.

In any event, I'd expect more of a choice of these sorts of modern conveniences in PACA, due to the more affluent towns concentrated in that region. (Was also thinking of "spacious" dwellings - we do tend to "warn" many newcomers of the limited size of more typical French residential property.)
Cheers,
Bev

 

In any event, I'd expect more of a choice of these sorts of modern conveniences in PACA, due to the more affluent towns concentrated in that region. (Was also thinking of "spacious" dwellings - we do tend to "warn" many newcomers of the limited size of more typical French residential property.)
Cheers,
Bev

Also, the language barrier will be less in PACA. Lots and lots of English being spoken in those towns (for good or ill).