Full disclosure: I don't have children so take my advice with a grain of salt. But if I did you could not pay me to put them in the French education system... and this is after listening to the complaints from my French friends. Other French friends I have with children put theirs in private school that is more 'nurturing' as you say. I don't think you have to have the other extreme of praising a child for just breathing, but some middle ground would be nice. Do you not wonder why the Parisians have the reputation they have? Critical and picky? They have been 'formed' to ridicule others who make mistakes and feel shame when they have made a mistake. (yes, gross generalisation, but a kernel of truth).

You have the best of intentions, but I would consider the mental and emotional state of your child. Friends will still be there after school hours.

 

Hi Rick, sounds as if things are a bit rough at the moment but hopefully now things will be on the up for you guys once you get things identified.

Personally I don't see you have much choice(of course though you do), if it has been identified that the teachers or the methods are directly related then I would pull my kid out without hesitation. It's all well and good to have a meeting with the school but I would think there isn't much they can do without designating him SEN which may have an even more negative effect.
I don't think it would be "admitting defeat" to move on as much as it would be "for the best".
10 year olds don't get depression, or at least shouldn't be getting it. Something is wrong, call it a difference in culture if you like but schools should not be making children sick.
Like I said, if it was me I would be sounding out other schools and moving on. However you would have to talk this over with your son, if he was against it then I guess you need to consider his feelings.
But his friends will still be there.

Also on a similar note to CanuckGirls post, my wife is French and we are supposed to be moving to Paris this year and our eldest will be starting school. The last thing she wants is for him to go through the French system for many of the reasons stated in the above posts and probably more. I mean we would if we had to but thankfully there is a choice.
As an Aussie just the school hours themselves seem daunting to me without all the added pressures.

 

Hello Rick

My sympathies for your problem. I make the following comments solely on what I have read in your post. Clearly there is more information there, but I'm not asking for it here!

You seem to make the assumption that your child has problems at "French School", implying that your son would be ok at an English school. My only comment to you is that maybe you should challenge that assumption - that may open up other questions and solutions?

PS I share you comments about French classes and that you must have the right colour etc. I found the same attitudes teaching very bright 22 year olds in France. Another example - my (French) wife is shocked when I fill up a form and go outside the lines of the boxes. My attitude is that I wish to write more (or I have big writing) and it is the form at fault. My wife says I must comply with the form and only write in the box!

DejW

 

Hi DejW

Perfectly good challenge and I'm with you in trying to open up other questions and solutions. However in talking to my son it's clear that the problems are related to the French teachers at the school. I hope the school can help, who knows ...

From what I gather, these experiences are not unique, and the views of Pazcat and CanuckGirl are clearly informed by experience of others including French parents and their children

I'm not saying that the more English schools are necessarily better all-round, but do basically agree with Pazcat that 10 is a bit early to get depression !

Best, Rick

 

Hi Rick

Ok, I've said all I can. Good luck with the meetings! Let us know how you get on.

Ps stupid question....what does your son say the problem is? At age 10 they can be very perceptive. Have you tried "If you could change one thing (at school) what would it be?"

I'm sorry if I am retracing ground that you have covered many times.

DejW

 

Hi, yes I've tried that question .... the response is either we go back to live in England, "Because it's easier there" or we change the teachers in the school

We'll see ... and meanwhile thanks for the thoughts !

Best, Rick

 

Hello Rick8,
I am so sorry to read what your son is experiencing.
I may have visited the school your son is enrolled at.

Our experience is that after visiting probably every "bilingual" school in Paris -some of them as you mentioned called themselves bilingual when only some of the teaching is in English- we were not convinced. This is how we decided to relocate and found a bilingual children centered school like we though we'd never find in France.
If you can afford it, some of my friends have moved their children to Marymount and the children have been happy since.
Also, when in Paris my son was enrolled in sports camps at Energy Academy. They are opening a school in September 2014. It will be a French school, but you can be sure your child will be encouraged. They are creating this school as along the years some parents were complaining about the French school system and wish a school where children are encouraged the way they are at the sports club existed. If your son is sporty, it might be an option.

I hope you will find a way to help your son.

PS: If you have a chance to read "they shoot schoolkids, don't they?" it is about stress in the French system http://www.petergumbel.fr/en/bio

 

Do what your gut tells you is right. You bore this child in your tummy, you're the only one to know what's good for him. You have taken professional opinions as you should have done, now you know that your son's school is not good for him. So it is time to decide what you will do, regardless of everyone around.

I have fought against the French and Swiss system for my son, and then I moved to UK, put him in a normal UK school, despite all French and Swiss professionals advice that wanted to park him in a "mental" institution. All that because he was highly intelligent, got bored like a dead rat in school and used to play pranks on the teachers. And really good ones too, 'coz it used to make me laugh no end.

As for the teachers, whether French or Swiss, they did not have either maturity or openness of mind. I taught my son tolerance, sensitivity, justice, decency, honesty and all such virtues, and it was no thanks to the French/Swiss. I had some periods when he was out of school when I just took him out of both these systems when it got too much for him to bear, during which he self-schooled during the day while I was at work, and schooled with me at night. He managed to win a local chess championship when he was 8 years old, after I'd told the Swiss director that I would not pay the fine for my son's unjustified absence, having kept him at home to sleep when we spent the night watching Halley's Comet and the Giotto spacecraft flying in the tail of the comet on my astronomer's friend television.

His father taught him electronics, I helped with chemistry and physics. He's played ice hockey, Tae Kwon Do, Badminton and the piano and... he can.... knit!!!!

All was not easy, but he survived the English system pretty well. We went from riches to poor, had to move a lot (6 schools in 2 years). But... his father and I gave him the best we could. He got the keys to the local astronomy observatory in UK when he was 15 years old at the same time as he passed 14 GCSEs A to C, 3 A'levels and 2 AS Levels. My son is now 35, a well-adjusted happy and kind man, with a high-tech University Engineering degree and he is one of the VPs in his firm.

So, you do what you think is best. If that means moving to another country, eating grass and having no heating, so long as you can help him become a good man with good studies, the opinion of the rest of the world does not matter. Him first, you second, the others can stay in their mediocre spots

 

This is certainly worrying.

My neice and nephew were born in France to a French mother and bilingual English/French father.

When my neice was 10, she began to experience similar problems to your son. She is a good student and also quite shy. My brother went to the school and talked to the teacher. She made several grammatical mistakes in French. He took a good look around and thought the place was a zoo. Not impressed at all.

He and his wife made an appointment with the private Catholic school, went to see the principal and laid out the child's problems. My brother's wife had attended this school as a child. It turns out that at the public school, the principal was, in fact, a head teacher - who had the responsibility but not alot of authority. Even on his first visit, my brother found that the Catholic school was what he considered a school should be - children walking in an orderly manner, classrooms quiet with students and teachers talking - no yelling, etc.

There was a place and so my neice was transferred. At the same time, they arranged for a place for my nephew for the next year. At 7, he was already beginning to experience problems because he is quite bright, got his work done ahead of everybody else and so was causing trouble in the classroom. Nobody thought about giving him extra work. That was just beyond their comprehension!

Both kids blossomed in the new school and both are doing really well. It's a harder working school than the other one was but there is alot of support for the kids as well.

Since your son is bilingual, this is another option. He will get good English language at home and when he gets to the stage of English classes, it will be a breeze for him.

I really don't think defeat enters the picture. I think it's time to cut your losses and put it down to a bad experience.

My very best wishes to you and your family.

 

I can't help you with the school issue. Though it does sound like you need to move him to a different school. School (and life) are not one size fits all.

But you should probably start finding aways for your son to deal with his stress. Try to enroll him in yoga, martial arts (the real ones that deal with mind and body), mediation, etc.

This is one area I think is not focused on enough; how children should deal with their emotions. In the end we all grow up trying to muddle through them the best we can.

 

Have you spoken to other parents of kids in his class/school? How do they perceive him? Do they have similar problems with their kids?

If it really is a stress/onset of school phobia thing, the school should normally take it in hand and make a referral to the Centre Medico-Social for assessment. If this hasn't been offered to you, make an appointment at the school with the Assistant(e) Social(e) and/of the Infirmier(e) for their judgement and help.

Have other things been happening in the background either at school or at home - bullying/arguments/finances, etc.? Maybe the root cause isn't actually the teachers/school, just that that's the most tangible thing for him to articulate and pin his problems on.

Sounds like you might have some delicate probing to undertake ... best of luck.

hils

 

Not having kids myself, I've been hesitant to jump in here - but I did have a somewhat similar problem myself back at the age of 8 or so. So what the heck - advice is worth exactly what you pay for it (which here in the forum is -0- !).

I developed "tummy problems" that kept me out of school because of a teacher who was definitely into yelling - not at me, but at the little girl who sat directly in front of me (and with who I was friends). This happened the year after we had moved to this particular town, so obviously there were a whole bunch of other issues wrapped up in all this.

Anyhow, my mother got the school psychologist to talk to me, and she convinced me that I needed to go back to school just like another little girl I knew who had had the same problem the year before. Meanwhile, behind the scenes, my mother was doing everything she could to get me moved to the other class in the school (where my best friend was) and to get the school to start checking on the teacher with the yelling problem. Given that the schools in France don't tend to respond very well to parents "getting involved" I think that may not be an option for you.

However, it got me thinking that one alternative to moving schools (and all the trauma that can cause in and of itself) is that maybe you need to work with your son to help him develop the resources to deal with the sort of stress and the problems he is encountering.

The French work place isn't exactly a "nurturing" environment either, and if you're planning on staying in France for the long term, he may need to learn how to deal with the way things are here. I swear French teachers are trained to teach like that - and it appears that the French kids are able to cope with it. And French bosses tend to share lots of "methods" they seem to have picked up in school.

Not sure if that means working with a psychologist or someone who can help him develop the necessary "survival skills" but in the long run, it may work out better for everyone concerned.
Cheers,
Bev

 

The French work place isn't exactly a "nurturing" environment either, and if you're planning on staying in France for the long term, he may need to learn how to deal with the way things are here. I swear French teachers are trained to teach like that - and it appears that the French kids are able to cope with it. And French bosses tend to share lots of "methods" they seem to have picked up in school.

Not sure if that means working with a psychologist or someone who can help him develop the necessary "survival skills" but in the long run, it may work out better for everyone concerned.
Cheers,
Bev

Quite, Bev. School - and ALL that it entails - is an apprenticeship for life. I don't think that French schools/teachers are misdirected in applying "rules for life" from the outset.

hils

 

OK thanks for comments, much appreciated - and we've all been kids so are qualified to comment ...

First to respond to a couple of points made - the underlying cause is the teaching approach; my son's response to it; or a mix of the two depending on your viewpoint. In response to Hils, there are no other background issues. Other kids have had similar problems and some have moved schools. Other current parents and kids have similar issues, including French as well as foreign pupils. Also we have involved a psychologist, albeit privately and separately from the school ... oh and Bev your post was very modest, I've noticed that your comments on all topics are intelligent, considered and valuable !

I've found the posts interesting and with some useful points - thanks Relocatella, we knew already about Marymount but your suggestion has led us to look at it again and I will be ordering the book "they shoot schoolkids don't they"

The dilemma I suppose is the extent to which the next steps or actions lie on the shoulders of the child to 'deal with it' or on others to change the context and situation to make it a happier experience for the child. Personally I'm firmly in the latter camp, though with the caveat that the child is helped to learn from the experience and to 'toughen up' a bit accordingly. He's a sensitive and intelligent boy who learns from everything - so he'll definitely learn a lot from all this

Fundamentally though I want my son to understand that his happiness and opinions matter and that he will be listened to. I don't want him to "knuckle down" and get on with it, as it won't make him happy and I believe that it can lead to issues of self worth etc later. I think it's a big shame that the culture of French education does not sufficiently address the psychological needs of pupils in this respect

In terms of what we're going to do, having spoken today to the directrice of the school, we agreed to move him into a class with a teacher who she says has a calmer approach - and we will look at putting him into a pre-International Baccalaureat system from September, ie one that is primarily english-based and with a more positive teaching approach

Meanwhile, fingers crossed !

Best, Rick

 

That sounds really positive for your son, Rick.

The other thing I was thinking about is that you really want to make sure that the boy isn't so turned off school that he just bides his time until he can get out at the first school leaving age. Although not a teacher myself, my father and my husband were teachers and my brother is currently a teacher - and none of them were / are screamers and yellers. All of them have told stories about how long it took them personally to calm kids down after being subjected to a situation such as you describe.

With all due respect to others, your son is in a position of having absolutely no control over this situation. If it were a workplace situation, he would have several options at hand, including applying for other positions and getting out.

The poor child should not have to step into a war zone every day.