It's a bad idea to alert your banks to your foreign physical address. Most or all of them are likely to close your account on the spot. While this may seem unfair to us tax-paying US expats, the banks do want to fall foul of compliance requirements in foreign jurisdictions where they are not registered to do business. What you should do instead is get an account at a Commercial Mail Receiving Agent in a state that does not have an income tax. I have been happy with sbimailservice.com in FL for more than ten years, but there are loads of such services. You should then change your address of record with all the financial services that you use, ideally before you give up your US residential address so that you can provide a utility bill if required, which is unlikely. Banks with which you have checking or savings accounts may demand your physical address, which banks whose credit cards you use are less likely to require.

The only bank/credit union that I am aware of that will open a new checking account for an American expat is sdfcu.org, which I have been using successfully for five years. USAA.com did not close my account when I was forced to report my foreign address, but opening a new account with them requires a military connection.

In addition, if you don't already have Google Voice, you should set that up. With the US phone number GV provides you, you will be able to make and receive calls free in North America and, especially importantly, receive SMS messages, although not all banks will agree to send messages to you via GV.

The only US entities that know my physical address are the two banks and the Social Security Administration, because they are the only entities that require it. Even the IRS only requires the country that you live in.

The brokerages are even worse that then banks, but less demanding of information from account holders.

Although you will find reports online from expats who continued their relationships with banks without problem after expatting, the risk is that their policy can change at any time leaving you high and dry. Easier to avoid that problem than to fix it.

 

Hi Chrissippus,

Reading your post I can see you are pretty knowledgeable about the financial issues in US of the expats.
I am Polish/American, currently finalizing a purchase of property in Portugal. Me and my husband "officially" left US in 2019 and have been living in Poland. Since we are not fans of harsh winters, we hope to buy a modest place to be in Portugal Nov-March.
The issue is the PNC bank we left behind (receiving our retirement checks there). We are unable to give them American phone number to be able to finalize the international wire transfers for the closing (end of January!!!).
At this point I am locked out of my on-line banking and quite desperate for advice.

Anyone else, please chime in

 

USAA requires ties to the US Armed Forces no matter where you are.

 

As I indicated, but my point is that they care if you are military, but they don't care where you are, which is exceptional.

 

It is not care or not care - USAA is based on memberships with a specific group.

 

There is no law that obliges US banks to refuse accounts to expats, yet most of them do. USAA is a bank, not a club, which has no obligation to maintain accounts for expats which it chooses to do only under the condition that the customer report his physical address. So, these decisions are entirely at the discretion of USAA and not a requirement of their membership structure.

 

I had a Bank of America account with a UK address for about 7 years, but I think it was a special deal for former scholars, this allowed fee-free accounts for overseas nationals. I think bank charges make servicing an overseas account without a regular source of funds in a waste of time?

 

Why don't you tell the bank the address of a relative you have who lives in USA ?

 

So you would be turning your relative into a clerk in a CMRA to save you $25 a month or so? If the relative lives in a state with an income tax the bank will report their 1099 to the state's tax collection agency from whom you will eventually get a letter asking where your tax returns are for that state.

 

Just a small cautionary tale on this subject. I retained a couple of accounts in the US, based on having held them for years before my move overseas. As long as activity in the accounts was minimal, everything seemed to go smoothly. But as I started to make more significant transactions, I found that the banks started getting more "persnickety" about procedures, often making fairly obvious "mistakes" requiring me to call or contact them by postal mail. I'm more or less convinced that this may have been part of a plan to "encourage" me to close out my account and save them the trouble of dealing with an "overseas" customer.

It may simply come down to the point where maintaining the "US connection" is just too much trouble to bother with.

 

Chris,

Read the first post. The post with the question we are discussing.

He is leaving the USA to live in another country.
He has been paying USA federal and possibly state income taxes on the bank interest.

He wants to keep his USA bank account, and continue paying USA taxes.

He did not state his citizenship, but he is probably a USA citizen.

If he is afraid his USA bank will close his account if he uses a foreign address, then he can simply maintain a USA address.

Use a relative's address

Or just continue using his old USA address, and login to the bank and turn off all postal mail. Banks love the cost savings of communicating via email. Plus you can log into your bank and download the tax forms once each year for preparing USA income taxes.

Chris, do you read his question differently ?

 

It doesn't work the way you think it does. Americans do not have a right to a bank account. Banks do not care whether their depositors pay their income taxes or not, nor do they care about their citizenship. They do care about the requirements of the Patriot Act. In particular, they care very much about the residency of the depositor. Maintaining a US address while not a US resident is not at all simple. Most banks and brokerages will either freeze his account or simply shut it down if they find out. With only one exception that I know of, none of them will open a new account for a US citizen expat. It may strike you as unreasonable that they should care, but they do, even though there are some expats, such as Bev, who do report cooperation after having left the US, but then that cooperation was a long time ago and anyway the bank pushed her out eventually.

I pay a CMRA a minimum of $25 per month to receive my mail, scan each envelope, and then either scan the contents or forward it on to me, which they do with consistent efficiency. Would you be willing to do that for free for a relative? Would you be willing to ask a relative to perform those services for you, presumably for free? My own answers would be no and no.

During my retirement abroad of more than ten years, I have read many accounts of expats whose bank or brokerage shut them down. I have taken all the precautions available to me to conceal my physical address. I did ill-advisedly provide my foreign address to a brokerage firm, which immediately froze the account. One bank, USAA.com did finally demand my physical address under threat of closure and then did not close the account when I provided that address to them, but then USAA's customer base is ex-military, many of whom also retire abroad, which is why I chose to open an account with them before leaving.

 

The USA post office will "hold mail" for only one month. So, I have been turning off physical mail from banks, investments, credit cards, utility companies.

I think I currently only receive electric bill and 1 credit card bill from physical mail.

I should eliminate these last two, so when I travel to other countries I will not receive mail, and will pay all bills via the internet.

So, the op can do similar.

 

Here is a [somehow] related question: what is the implication of maintaining a virtual mailbox address in a specific state, from the stand point of that specific state taxes (I am not talking about the states which do not have an income tax, of course)?

For example: Illinois is apparently a "domicile" state, which has some strict requirements for what domicile is, of which virtual mailbox is not part (i.e. one does not have to pay IL taxes if there is no other tie to the state, e.g. no drivers license, no rental, no property, no voting record, etc.), the problem with all that I stated here being that this info is not sourced in a specific Illinois Administrative Code title & section that I could find, although someone posted a tit. 86 § 100.320(g)(1) for such.

Changing the state address in a virtual mailbox to a state with no income tax may not only be difficult, once abroad, but also raise some issues when trying to update addresses with financial institutions, so that is not a response.

 

Many of the CMRAs are indeed located in states without income tax such as Nevada, Texas, and Florida. If the taxpayer's sole tie to the state is the CMRA, most states will probably not construe that as establishing tax domicile in the state. However, watch out for VA, which takes the position that having resided therem your tax domicile remains VA until such time as you establish tax domicile in another state. CA includes among the factors it uses to determine tax domicile whether the taxpayer uses professional services in the state or even has friends in the state.

My CMRA, which I recommend, is in FL: sbimailservice.com.

If you are still in the US and planning to expatriate, you should consider changing your address of record with financial institutions to your CMRA before leaving. Then if they question it, you can still produce a utility bill with your name on it. If you don't already have a Google Voice account, you should get one now, since it is easier to do if you still have a US cell number. If you have banks and brokers in the US with whom you will want to connect online, you would be well advised to get a Virtual Private Server with a US-based provider such as AWS, Google Cloud Platform or Azure. Then, when you want to login to your financial account from abroad without provoking the IP watchdogs, you startup and login to your VPS first and from there login to your financial account. These days a VPN no longer fools any website that cares to know.

Do your research carefully before you leave, since your options once your gone will be reduced. Make sure you have several bank accounts, brokers, and credit cards, for instance.

 

Many of the CMRAs are indeed located in states without income tax such as Nevada, Texas, and Florida. If the taxpayer's sole tie to the state is the CMRA, most states will probably not construe that as establishing tax domicile in the state. However, watch out for VA, which takes the position that having resided therem your tax domicile remains VA until such time as you establish tax domicile in another state. CA includes among the factors it uses to determine tax domicile whether the taxpayer uses professional services in the state or even has friends in the state.

My CMRA, which I recommend, is in FL: sbimailservice.com.

If you are still in the US and planning to expatriate, you should consider changing your address of record with financial institutions to your CMRA before leaving. Then if they question it, you can still produce a utility bill with your name on it. If you don't already have a Google Voice account, you should get one now, since it is easier to do if you still have a US cell number. If you have banks and brokers in the US with whom you will want to connect online, you would be well advised to get a Virtual Private Server with a US-based provider such as AWS, Google Cloud Platform or Azure. Then, when you want to login to your financial account from abroad without provoking the IP watchdogs, you startup and login to your VPS first and from there login to your financial account. These days a VPN no longer fools any website that cares to know.

Do your research carefully before you leave, since your options once your gone will be reduced. Make sure you have several bank accounts, brokers, and credit cards, for instance.

We too swear by St Brendan’s Isle, been using them since 2018 for irs, banking and everything else with no issues.

 

Given that "residence" or "domicile" is a state determined/regulated thing, the specifics will vary for each and every state. Be careful when trying to figure out how to maintain US financial accounts after you have moved overseas.

 

Bev - I would rephrase to " do your own research before moving". A lot of forum information is old. It is often just just bits and pieces and personal experiences. Banks are clamping down due to money laundering and tax evasion. Technology is not standing still.
Back to personal anecdotes - a family member opened an annuity with a W8 while in the US on vacation. Not a peep until it was cashed. US kept 30%, Germany kept their share plus penalties and a five year look back tax audit.

 

a family member opened an annuity with a W8 while in the US on vacation. Not a peep until it was cashed. US kept 30%, Germany kept their share plus penalties and a five year look back tax audit.

If your family member wasn't a US resident or citizen, then of course the IRS kept 30% and Germany taxes that sort of thing for its residents. That's how it works.

 

Unfortunately doing the expat thing for a bit.

 

Chrissipus,

Thanks a lot for your reply. Actually both our kids live in US (born there) and for now have no plans to leave. This provides an address in US (AZ). Our son is actually software developer, so I think setting up GV would be a piece of cake for him. I do not have a lot of warm feelings for Google, but looks like a have no choice.
We have used our daughter's phone number to send 3/5 international wire transfers, but now that they shut me out of online banking (account to which my SS comes), my husband was thinking of getting a flight to Raleigh to our branch (not a very cheap perspective) to just get the banker's check. PNC only allows 25K twice a month for a wire transfer!!!
Where can I find more info regarding GV? Is it acceptable to the PNC bank bots?


Thanks again

 

My banks will accept GV SMSes, while some institutions will not. You can learn all you want about GV on youtube. When you make a call with GV, the other end only sees your phone number (which you will have chosen during the setup.) So, there is no question as to whether the bank can fail to "accept" the call.

You should open an account at State Department Federal Credit Union, sdfcu.org. You will have to join some affinity group for a few dollars to be eligible. SDFCU is the only US banking institution of which I am aware that will open an account for a US citizen expat. Their credit cards are good to have also, since they have no foreign transaction fee. SDFCU is my primary bank.

To send international wire transfers wise.com is the best. Cheap and very fast. Most of my transfers have taken about 20 seconds to complete, even on the weekend. If you or your husband has military connections you could open an account with USAA.com, who markets to the military, and will not shut down your account because you are expats.

You should make sure you have enough US credit cards to go the distance since they are better in most respects that the European versions. Here in France there really are no credit cards. There is something they call a "credit card", but they automatically withdraw the full balance from your account at the end of the month. Plus their limits are low. We have four US credit cards.

Do you have a Commercial Mail Receiving Agent to receive mail for you at a US address. This is an indispensable service. I use sbimailservice.com in FL, but there are many such. You want to choose a CMRA in a state with no income tax, such as FL.

Have you researched the tax domicile rules of the state you are leaving so as not to be deemed to have "an intent to return" which would mean that you would still have to pay state income tax? Remember the laws do not work by commons sense logic.

Do you have brokerage accounts, IRA, etc. in the US? These are both trickier and more important than the banks as it turns out. If so, I can make a suggestion on how not to let them know where you are. Forget about vpns, by the way. They do not conceal your location.

Poland, eh? Seems to be the up and comer in the EU. Question is whether they can break out of the middle income trap.