Thanks for the info Steve. Why would you only need private health insurance for the first five years? I have read this elsewhere as well. I would of thought you would need it all the time. Or is it that it is compulsory for the first few years?

 

Because you can become Spanish resident after 5 years, freeing the way for more conventional medical arrangemnets through their system ( AKA their equivalent of our NHS )
Steve

 

Trotter, just read your post. That sounds better around healthcare. But why would Spain want to
give me free healthcare if I have never paid into the system ?

 

You will have paid Spanish taxes on all your worldwide wealth for at least 5 years until you qualify and these taxes can be considerably higher than UK taxes.
Spanish healthcare is contribution based, which is opposed the the UK's residency based healthcare. This partly explains the lure of the UK to economic migrants. However, both countries are civilised and will take care of your healthcare if you don't have any other cover.

 

5 years residency does not give you free healthcare
I work and if I stop paying in my healthcare stops after 3 months. The convenio is not just for expats it is used by Spanish as well.

 

5 years residency does not give you free healthcare
I work and if I stop paying in my healthcare stops after 3 months. The convenio is not just for expats it is used by Spanish as well.

Are you a permanent resident?...and are you not working? My quote states at the start " If you are not working "

 

Only undocumented illegals get free healthcare under the Universal Healthcare Act it is not open to all migrants

 

I did take the time to include a link which supports my view. Perhaps you could do the same?

 

Hi
I read somewhere recently that once a person has permanent residence (ie over 5 years), then they will have automatic access to state healthcare, but I can't remember where I read it!

Can anyone confirm this?

Cheers

Steve

 

It says it on the British Enbassy website I think....but it´s false information.

 

More info, this publication is widely respected throughout the world. They state that they worked with experts in immigration to write this article:

Spain Visa and Residency Information 2021 - International Living Countries

From the article:
"
Long Duration (Permanent) Residence Permit
After five years of living in Spain on one of the residence permits described above, you are automatically eligible for permanent residence as long as you have not been out of Spain more than 10 months in the five years. Time spent on student staying permits counts at 50%. Once you have this permit, you only need to be in Spain one day each year to keep it. Permanent residence gives expats the right to work and access to the government healthcare system.
"

 

The wording is incomplete and therefore misleading.

It should say "Permanent residence gives expats the right to work and access to the government healthcare system" WHICH ENSUES FROM THAT.

In other words healthcare due to being employed and contributing to the social security system.

5 years residency absolutely does NOT give the right to FREE healthcare!

 

" 1. Holders of the right to health protection and health care are all persons with Spanish nationality and foreign persons who have established their residence in Spanish territory."

BOE-A-2018-10752 Real Decreto-ley 7/2018, de 27 de julio, sobre el acceso universal al Sistema Nacional de Salud.

www.boe.es

 

Yes, that is the part I am referring to. What it says is that you will get free health care in Spain as a resident (this is the part people like to read and stop at this point, but it continues..) as long as you are not obliged to prove compulsory health care by other means. For both EU citizens and visa applicants, the applicable immigration law DOES oblige us to prove ths healthcare by other means, so the right referred to in section 1 does not apply to most of us.

 

I'm sorry but I disagree.
Yes, Visa applicants have to prove they have healthcare and this is tested each time they apply. When 3rd country nationals (applicants) have applied 3 times, over the 5 year period, they become permanent residents. As permanent residents they are allowed to apply for the permanent TIE card which lasts for 10 years. When they come to renew the permanent card they no longer need to prove healthcare.

 

I was just writing "What's missing from the above is FREE health care as enjoyed by Spanish nationals" when your post popped up.

I rest my case then that 5 years residency absolutely does NOT give the right to FREE healthcare!

Those not entitled to an S1 will therefore have to pay for PHI or convenio especial in perpetuity the only other option being taking up Spainish citizenship which need 10 years residence for starters.

 

Why are we discussing this?. It is a simple fact that 5 years residency does not give you free healthcare. Only those resident before 2012 have it. The rest have it because either they work or, in the case of Brits before 31st Dec, the S1 covers them. Anyone from UK arriving in Spain with NLV will need to have healthcare cover for the whole time they have residency. The caveat that you get it if you have no access to any coverage anywhere else is not applicable to Brits, Americans. We went through this a few years ago- with people demanding free healthcare and waving the law at funcinarios and nothing came of it. Let's not start posting Google translations of individual paragraphs of various decretas and just move on.

 

If anyone can find me one person who became legally resident after April 2012 who has successfully recieved free & full access to the Spanish healthcare system simply because they are permanent residents after 5 years, I'll eat a pickled gherkin.

If you knew me, you'd know how much I hate anything pickled, and that I would be far more likely to eat a hat.

 

If anyone can find me one person who became legally resident after April 2012 who has successfully recieved free & full access to the Spanish healthcare system simply because they are permanent residents after 5 years, I'll eat a pickled gherkin.

I'd never previously heard of, what for me, seems to be an important April 2012 reference.

I'm a UK passport holder, not currently working but have had a permanent residence in Spain, since the mid 90's.

Does this mean I will continue to have ongoing access to state healthcare in Spain, without having to pay a monthly fee ?

 

To complete my post (becasue someone will still not believe this is the case) the laws which oblige the EU and 3rd country immigrants to have health care arranged outside of the state system are :

"art. 54.1 del RD 557/2011, de 20 de abril, por el que se aprueba el Reglamento de la Ley Orgánica 4/2000, sobre derechos y libertades de los extranjeros en España y su integración social[4] tras su reforma por Ley Orgánica 2/2009 como el Real Decreto 240/2007, de 16 de febrero, sobre entrada, libre circulación y residencia en España de ciudadanos de los Estados miembros de la Unión Europea y de otros Estados parte en el Acuerdo sobre el Espacio Económico Europeo (art.7[5]) y la Orden PRE/1490/2012"

Source - a legal opinion published in Legal Today (which also reaches the same conclusions as I do, albeit in a much more academic and detailed way). This has also been tested in the Tribunal Supremo (sentence of 13th May 2019).

https://www.legaltoday.com/practica-juridica/derecho-publico/derecho-administrativo/tienen-derecho-todos-los-extranjeros-a-la-sanidad-universal-2019-09-03/

 

Maybe we should make this a "sticky"? I do seem to have to post this every year or so to disporove the misinformation around.

 

It won't stop the question being asked again, but yes, I'll stick it, if only so that it's easy to find your link again!

 

It is important that this information is correct. It appears that some people still believe that after 5 years of residency they will no longer need to pay for healthcare and will simply transfer to the state healthcare which is free. If you are budgeting on only five years healthcare fees you might be surprised to find you will need to pay even if you are on the convenio and for over 65s that is approx 160€ ( at the moment).

 

I am intending to leave Spain in a year to return to UK. I will only remain in UK for a couple of years until I reach retirement and my child has finished education there. When I leave I will have been more than 5 years with Spanish residency. I believe I can still return if my absence does not exceed 5 years. Will I receive healthcare on return, especially as I would have made a number of years of contributions?

 

That depends on your contribution record in Spain, but I would say yes. And if you are getting UK state pension, then you are eligible for S1 and get free Spanish health care.

 

The Brits in Spain Facebook page has listed the next live Q&A and its about hHealthcare.
I have asked the following question.

Something that seems to be confusing is the information on the .gov website about Spanish healthcare. I arrived here in August 2020, am 59 and don't work and have registered to become resident. I have private healthcare and will continue with this. But on the website it says once I have been a resident for 5 years I can get FREE healthcare from the Spanish system. Does this mean I can stop paying for the Private and just register and receive completely free healthcare just like a Spanish Citizen, even though I will not have paid anything into the system, until the Uk picks up with the S1 for me in 2029?

Lets see what answer I get.

 

Thing is, they keep repeating this, even though we know that it simply doesn't work that way, & they have been questioned about it in the past.

Let us know what they say.

 

Yes Andalucia did it but they also had it for people who were registered in 2012. They seem to have stopped it now though.

 

Do Americans with NLVisa get free healthcare after 5 years? If they do then Brits will. If they dont then we won't

 

As I think was mentioned earlier, an American member here, Eyles, tried every possible avenue to get free access to the healthcare system after 5 years residency -. and failed. He ended up continuing with the convenio especial.

 

Good grief, I never expected so many replies! Thank you everybody. The reason I asked the question is that I (aged 57) have free healthcare because my partner is classed as a pensioner, and therefore has free healthcare via s1, and I am classed as her dependent, so I get healthcare as well. However, in 2019, my partner was literally dying on the floor of a pharmacy with a diabetic hypo. The ambulance got there in the nick of time, heroes! But ever since, there's been that thought at the back of our minds, "if the worst had happened, I would also lose my healthcare".

Then I saw a comment somewhere about permanent residency and healthcare, and just wanted to find out more.

PS we arrived in Spain in May 2012, unaware of the April cutoff.

Thanks to all

 

No-one was aware of that cutoff until it was retroactively announced in the October!


I can imagine you would be concerned, but the good news is that you will eventually still get the S1 when you retire, & should the worst happen, the convenio especial is pretty cheap until you qualify for an S1 in your own right.

Glad your partner pulled through.

 

For what its worth, I never knew about the 2012 change either. I arrived first time in 2004 and was admitted to the SS system because I got a job within a few months, I have been contributing non-stop ever since (even when I lived in Asia) so every time I do any formal procedue I just allow them to check my vida laboral or I print it off and take it with me.

 

i just saw this in BREXPATS IN SPAIN facebook group as a "clarification from the British Embassy". not sure how to link to a specific post so i am copying it here. BREXPATS IN SPAIN

not my information, just sharing in case someone wants to give it a go.

========
Rights to healthcare here is a massive concern especially now we are living with the risks of Covid. Many members are wanting to exercise their right to State healthcare after being resident here for 5 years. What are the conditions, who does it apply to and how can they claim it? The healthcare team at the British Embassy wrote this explanation of how to apply for healthcare as a permanent resident:

• If you are a permanent resident in Spain you are entitled to apply for Spanish State healthcare on the basis of your permanent residency status. You can now also apply online. Here’s what to do:
• Call the Overseas Healthcare Service on (0044) 191 218 1999 and as for a ‘legislation letter’. This tells the Spanish authorities that the UK does not cover your healthcare
• Complete the Spanish Seguridad Social healthcare application for (https://bit.ly/3jNEGMe)
• Upload both of these documents, along with your passport and your permanent residency certificate to the INSS online application service (https://bit.ly/2EzgCwB) Make sure you select ‘No certificate’ (or ‘Sin certificado’) at the bottom of the page. Please note, the application forms are in Spanish.

Remember that if you already receive your healthcare in Spain because you work and pay into the Social Security system or you claim a Spanish or UK State pension, this option is not available. If you’re a UK State Pensioner, the UK can cover your healthcare in Spain using an S1 form. See https://www.gov.uk/.../healthcare-in-spain-including-the... for more information on healthcare

 

i just saw this in BREXPATS IN SPAIN facebook group as a "clarification from the British Embassy". not sure how to link to a specific post so i am copying it here. BREXPATS IN SPAIN

not my information, just sharing in case someone wants to give it a go.

========
Rights to healthcare here is a massive concern especially now we are living with the risks of Covid. Many members are wanting to exercise their right to State healthcare after being resident here for 5 years. What are the conditions, who does it apply to and how can they claim it? The healthcare team at the British Embassy wrote this explanation of how to apply for healthcare as a permanent resident:

• If you are a permanent resident in Spain you are entitled to apply for Spanish State healthcare on the basis of your permanent residency status. You can now also apply online. Here’s what to do:
• Call the Overseas Healthcare Service on (0044) 191 218 1999 and as for a ‘legislation letter’. This tells the Spanish authorities that the UK does not cover your healthcare
• Complete the Spanish Seguridad Social healthcare application for (https://bit.ly/3jNEGMe)
• Upload both of these documents, along with your passport and your permanent residency certificate to the INSS online application service (https://bit.ly/2EzgCwB) Make sure you select ‘No certificate’ (or ‘Sin certificado’) at the bottom of the page. Please note, the application forms are in Spanish.

Remember that if you already receive your healthcare in Spain because you work and pay into the Social Security system or you claim a Spanish or UK State pension, this option is not available. If you’re a UK State Pensioner, the UK can cover your healthcare in Spain using an S1 form. See https://www.gov.uk/.../healthcare-in-spain-including-the... for more information on healthcare

I look forward to hearing of someone actually succeeding

 

Unfortunately, it is all from the UK end. As many of us have pointed out the 5 year rule doesn't appear to apply to Americans who have to pay after 5 years ( Elyses is our American poster). The Spanish official sites seem to interpret the law differently relying on the idea that the applicant has no recourse to healthcare assistance from their country. I guess this is why the UK site says you need a letter to say you dont receive healthcare from UK. Having said that the UK has now said that all UK nationals resident abroad will have access to the NHS when in UK so I wonder how that might effect things. One thing is for sure - this will not be immediately acted on and will just drag on for years so you need to plan for worst hope for best.

 

I can understand why the 5 year rule doesn't apply to Americans as their health cover isn't reciprocated to Spanish immigrants, whereas the UK reciprocate their healthcare.

 

The problem is ( and I might be wrong) is not all Spanish nationals are entitled to free healthcare hence the convenio which was designed for those Spanish who had no contributions. Now I know that this was the case and it might have changed but the convenio was not invented for solely for immigrants.

 

I thought since 2012 all Spanish nationals were entitled to healthcare.

Since my cancer diagnosis I've asked the question as to what happens if I cease to be autónomo and stopped paying. The answer was straightforward...no autónomo payments no healthcare... I'm currently getting sickness benefits and still paying some social security payments per month. I'd love for it to be true that once paying autónomo you get life cover, might be for Spanish citizens not I think for foreign nationals. Like to be wrong.

 

This, at the time that it applied to me, was dependent on area. Com. Valenciana for example had it. They called it the former worker scheme and as i said, i was struck off the sip card but a visit to the social security and it was all changed over to that and i was told its for life no matter if i work or not.

Since then ive always worked so never given it any more thought. But keep in mind it was well before 2012 that everyone is talking about (i didnt even know things changed).

My OH is spanish and so my family and friends are all spanish and i know people who don't work, have used all their paro etc and they still get health care. But the actual rules im not clear on.