Ok,hello,im new to this forum,,would like to ask if anybody could give me the name of a website or advice about opening a bar,,cost of unexpected overheads etc,licenses etc,,,many thanks,,,ian.
ian-young
Before you go any further, pick an area you like the look of and make some fact finding visits. Go and visit some bars, maybe get chatting to the owners, watch and look at the work load and the clientèle and get a feel for the whole picture. Also look at prices, cost of living, general mood of the people in the area
Running a bar isn't easy. In many cases people have lost a lot of money and struggle to make enough to live on and find they have to work constantly . But you need to see if it's something you can do. Sadly, websites and those selling bars maybe biased and won't give you a true picture.
Once you're sure you can actually commit and do the work, then find a reputable agent... and see whats about and why. TOP TIP: Be wary of their claims, facts and figures!
Jo xxx
Sent from my D5803 using Expat Forum
Running a bar isn't easy. In many cases people have lost a lot of money and struggle to make enough to live on and find they have to work constantly . But you need to see if it's something you can do. Sadly, websites and those selling bars maybe biased and won't give you a true picture.
Once you're sure you can actually commit and do the work, then find a reputable agent... and see whats about and why. TOP TIP: Be wary of their claims, facts and figures!
Jo xxx
Sent from my D5803 using Expat Forum
I've never done anything like set up a bar, but I would stress extreme caution too because I've seen plenty, including well established businesses, close down.
However, here are some links to get you started
http://www.sepe.es/contenidos/perso...ncontrar_empleo/encontrar_empleo_europa/paises/espana/pdf_espana/trabEsp_en.pdf
Starting a Business in Spain - Doing Business - World Bank Group
Starting a business in Spain
However, here are some links to get you started
http://www.sepe.es/contenidos/perso...ncontrar_empleo/encontrar_empleo_europa/paises/espana/pdf_espana/trabEsp_en.pdf
Starting a Business in Spain - Doing Business - World Bank Group
Starting a business in Spain
Ian,no disrespect to you my friend but as an ex bar owner I would say don't do it.When we came here over 20years ago we bought a bar in Benalmadena and back then you could make reasonable money but the hours you had to put in to make reasonable money was just not worth it and I certainly would not be using web sites or agents as the amount of people I have seen come and lose everything you cannot imagine.Like Jo said come over ,have a look around,try and get a job in a bar and then when you have got one person in watching the TV and he has had one tubo of beer in an hour you will realize it's not worth it.I have no regrets about buying a bar it certainly was an eye opener and an experience but back then you could sell bars if it wasn't for you.Nowadays it's a no no.Although if you did go for it if you could do something completely different to other bar owners you might stand a little bit of a chance and as I said before when you are looking look out for rent a crowd,scum of the earth where a bar owner gets all his mates in to make it look like the bar is busy.If you did go for it sincerely wish you the best of luck but it's not something I would want to take on in today's climate but with all of Spains problems and which european country hasn't it's still an enjoyable country to live in otherwise me and the wife wouldn't still be here over 20years later.Utmost respect.sB.
We've had a few new bars opening in the village recently (possibly because of the reduction in social security costs for new businesses). There is little or no passing trade so they have to lure customers from other bars. This means drinks at giveaway prices (e.g. €5 for a bucket containing seven small bottles), so there is hardly any profit margin, or staying open when the opposition is closed, which means you have to pay staff or go without sleep.
On two occasions I know of, the bars whose customers they poached have made denuncias against them, for trifling things like the wrong size awning. They have to stay closed till it's been settled, and it all costs money.
Finally, I wouldn't even think about opening a bar without being fluent in Spanish. Even in an expat area, you need to attract Spanish customers too, and you have to deal with all the bureaucracy, suppliers, cleaners etc.
On two occasions I know of, the bars whose customers they poached have made denuncias against them, for trifling things like the wrong size awning. They have to stay closed till it's been settled, and it all costs money.
Finally, I wouldn't even think about opening a bar without being fluent in Spanish. Even in an expat area, you need to attract Spanish customers too, and you have to deal with all the bureaucracy, suppliers, cleaners etc.
thank you alcalaina,,im beginning to get the picture,,i realise its hard,but then perhaps people are not inventive enough to make it work,,,but i take your point especially about appealing to the spanish,,i would not start or run any business in spain and ignore the spanish,that would be suicide !!!,after all i would be a guest in their country,,perhaps if people would understand that it may make a difference ! i dont know,perhaps im wrong??
From what I can see, its the recession thats causing the problem and that there are now too many bars servicing too few people with enough money to spend in them.
Spanish bars are struggling too, its just they have family, friends, a good knowledge of the language and bureaucracy to help them.
IMO, you just need to do a few visits and get a better understanding of the whole picture
Jo xxx
Spanish bars are struggling too, its just they have family, friends, a good knowledge of the language and bureaucracy to help them.
IMO, you just need to do a few visits and get a better understanding of the whole picture
Jo xxx
hey soulboy,please dont get the impression i was having a pop,,far from it mate,im really gratefull for the advice ! i actually think if your brave enough to have a go at it your never a failure,,i am a bricklayer by trade and have done general building now for 30 odd years,i have had the chance to own and run a bar before,in the u,s,a not england and certainly not in spain,,,i would like to think i could continue my building profession in spain but it would be nice to branch out and do both,have a base for living and socialising(bar) and working if i got the chance building,,, i have not even a minute piece of the experience you and others have on here so please dont for a min think im not listening or taking it all in,,,i may be new to the idea but i know when to shut up and listen ! lol cheers,,,ian
jo are you talking about small bars,run by couples who want to live the dream or larger bars or even clubs? cheap entry bars i mean,,because i dont want to you to think that that is the market im looking at ,, i have no intention of buying a bar for £6000 and trying to turn it into a million pound enterprise !! lololol cheers,,,x
Yes , even in Benidorm I have seen many closed down bars !
Personally think Spain is a great place if you are just living here and have your finances sorted , but not so easy if you are trying to earn a living
But in saying that if it is your dream , to have a bar in Spain - go for it , you only live once !!
good luck - hope it works out for you !
Tony
Personally think Spain is a great place if you are just living here and have your finances sorted , but not so easy if you are trying to earn a living
But in saying that if it is your dream , to have a bar in Spain - go for it , you only live once !!
good luck - hope it works out for you !
Tony
At the moment i am looking in benalmadina at a club that has been closed for a while,,holds about 200 inside,terrace for 80 (so it says) info is ok,but location adjacent to the square i have read about which maybe not the position i am looking for,,but furnishings etc look good,,sound system etc but you lot have made me think maybe more than i would have done,,so still a few to look at,,,i am thinking that meeting and believing an agent wont be straightforeward though,lol sneaky i think !! lol
I am thinking not only a bar there though,i do have the option of being self employed as i am here in england,in construction,i fully understand the recession has hit spain badly but im struggling to believe that there arent any bars that are successfully making a living,perhaps even a good one,some tourist areas must still be thriving? it would be in one of these tourist areas i would be considering....and from a builders point of view some people must be having or thinking of having work done on their property! Its been hard here but luckily enough i have got through to this point,even managing to keep a couple of people and their families,,simply by not overcharging and doing a good job,,that i think will make me a living in most places,,,im not in a rush to throw my money away however its just that i dont want to live somewhere and stop working,i am not a big drinker( which is something that im warned about lots out there) and i do not need the support of a social security system(luckily enough) i just have had enough of this place and i do believe things may get better there, (or is that just a dream) lol many thanks to all and please keep advice coming,,any at all im gratefull for and i do have a list of negatives and posotives ,,,im afraid the negatives are a way in front at the moment !! lol cheers...ian..
I know of at least 20 British builders in this area alone, all of whom are out of work, most of them are really good and most of them have to return to UK for months at a time to earn money there. A friend has just been to Norway for 3 weeks for a building job as there is nothing here and 6 years ago he was so busy he was turning down more work than he was doing. Another guy I know, a first class carpenter, came here 15 years ago and opened a bar which was large enough so that all his 3 children would have work. He suffered 3 breakdowns in 5 years through the stress and hours of work. They made most of their money on Friday and Saturday and were lucky to take (not make) €30 a day the rest of the week and they had made the decision to target the Spanish rather than rely on seasonal tourists. Their normal hours of work, 7 days a week, would be 5.30 am until 2 am and remember this was long before the recession hit. Now he too has to return to UK for carpentry work to make ends meet.
Yes there are some bars doing very well; they are not for sale. In our areas the new businesses opening in this area that do well tend to be restaurants but for every successful new venture there are around 20 that fail. You really must do your homework and absolutely do not rely at all on agents selling bars or an owner that will tell you his bar is doing very well but his sick mother means he cannot keep it open and must reluctantly sell (or some such story). They will sound very genuine as they've had a lot of practice as they desperately try to get rid of it. So that's the negative bit done with. It doesn't mean you can't be successful but it will be very very difficult.
Yes there are some bars doing very well; they are not for sale. In our areas the new businesses opening in this area that do well tend to be restaurants but for every successful new venture there are around 20 that fail. You really must do your homework and absolutely do not rely at all on agents selling bars or an owner that will tell you his bar is doing very well but his sick mother means he cannot keep it open and must reluctantly sell (or some such story). They will sound very genuine as they've had a lot of practice as they desperately try to get rid of it. So that's the negative bit done with. It doesn't mean you can't be successful but it will be very very difficult.
Not pointed at Ian but in general I never hear any talk of business plans. That surprises me.
I remember when my brother opened a book shop he studied the generic client base, reading habits, average spend on books, employment rates, population in miles of radius. I remember him needing 56000 punters within 14 miles per book shop prior to the online boom (if memory serves me well
).
In tourism obviously you'd be looking at things like number of flights, hotel bed places, local with money population, business turnovers, no. of all inclusive, passing trade, profit base on stock cost - sell price, etc. I remember a member here, a bar owner, once offered the number of canas he needed to sell per day. I'd have thought that was the vital and fundamental type of info required.
There are business associations in Spain that can help in this regard but I guess because of the language barrier they are rarely tapped, it seems to me, by expats.
Surprised how many expats seem to think in Spain it isn't necessary to stick to business fundamentals. Just an observation and nothing more. Cheers
ps Sorry Ian jumping in. :focus:
I remember when my brother opened a book shop he studied the generic client base, reading habits, average spend on books, employment rates, population in miles of radius. I remember him needing 56000 punters within 14 miles per book shop prior to the online boom (if memory serves me well
).In tourism obviously you'd be looking at things like number of flights, hotel bed places, local with money population, business turnovers, no. of all inclusive, passing trade, profit base on stock cost - sell price, etc. I remember a member here, a bar owner, once offered the number of canas he needed to sell per day. I'd have thought that was the vital and fundamental type of info required.
There are business associations in Spain that can help in this regard but I guess because of the language barrier they are rarely tapped, it seems to me, by expats.
Surprised how many expats seem to think in Spain it isn't necessary to stick to business fundamentals. Just an observation and nothing more. Cheers
ps Sorry Ian jumping in. :focus:
Benalmadena at the coast is as dead as a doornail has been for months! I know one set of bars, owned by the same people, that seem to do pretty well during 'the season'. These bars have been closed since end of Oct and won't open again til mid March. They just couldn't justify the overheads.
I have 5 bars across the road from me; one has had 3 owners since I moved here & is now closed, another has had 2 owners & is now closed, the next one has had 3 owners and is back open and dead every night! One seems to do ok, hardly jumping but a few folk sat outside? & the other will be closed until March!
I have only been here since May 2013.
Can't comment on the doings up the hill in the likes of Bonanza. There does seem to be a steady flow of older folk sitting outside bars and restaurants during the day as I skuttle through on my way to Arroyo! Not sure what kind of club you are thinking about opening? There are definitely a few gaps in the market in Benalmadena but I think getting licenses for music etc is so difficult that it becomes prohibitive. This is what I have been lead to understand by people who have been here a lot longer than me.
I have 5 bars across the road from me; one has had 3 owners since I moved here & is now closed, another has had 2 owners & is now closed, the next one has had 3 owners and is back open and dead every night! One seems to do ok, hardly jumping but a few folk sat outside? & the other will be closed until March!
I have only been here since May 2013.
Can't comment on the doings up the hill in the likes of Bonanza. There does seem to be a steady flow of older folk sitting outside bars and restaurants during the day as I skuttle through on my way to Arroyo! Not sure what kind of club you are thinking about opening? There are definitely a few gaps in the market in Benalmadena but I think getting licenses for music etc is so difficult that it becomes prohibitive. This is what I have been lead to understand by people who have been here a lot longer than me.
pesky,,soulsboy,angil,, your observations and comments have been a real eye opener and to be honest i feel like i should run for the hills,lol I still have a lot of thinking and talking to do with myself but due to not only your experience but others with lots more than me i am definately not going to commit to absoloutely anything at all,In fact im going off the idea rapidly, ( you could all of you have saved me much money and heartache!),i think after recieving your help all of you i need a holiday !!! Thank you so much for your interest,,im glad i found the site !! when i come over for a break i will buy you all a beer ! ( if we can find an open bar) lolololol cheers all x ian.
Ian,please don't think that I have been trying to show you any disrespect,far from it.I honestly wish when we came here there were forums and other places like this that we could have gone on but sadly there wasn't or else it might have saved me and the wife some heart ache.Really do love your enthusiasm the only thing I would say if you could find a bar which you can get rent only at least you haven't got much to lose but would not be laying our mega bucks for a lease or back when we bought ours the old traspaso.Sincerely wish you the best of luck and at the end of the day there just might be something for you.SB.
I drink in Feungirola in bars that are jumping week in & week out, mostly Spanish / some Scandis very few Brits. That might change as the season does, time will tell. If you are coming to Benalmadena now pack a cardigan (I am freezing!) and be prepared to sit in empty bars! But you will defo get a feel for the place at its grimmest! Have a chat with some of the bar owners. I have met some nice, very forth coming people who I am sure will tell you how it is.
cheers sb,,yes renting may be the way to go,i did think about that,,i havnt seen any with just that though,,like you say its the lease thing that hurts,,,i took everything you said as well meant and genuine advice and i thank you for it,, in the end i may or may not have a go but i am at least hopefully a lot wiser and carefull in the thought process,,,i know that many people think great,lets go to spain and run a bar it will be lovelly,great weather all day on the beach and make a fortune,,well im not quite that silly but in my life certain things have happened and now all i really want to do is have a go at something else,besides i would only be prepared to gamble maybe £15,to £20,000 that may be a good amount of money but if i could maybe get a year away working with that then it would have served its purpose ! I really am gratefull that i found the site and i can understand how people can have their heads turned and then loose everything on a longshot,I however run a small building company here in the uk and i just feel i need a change,like i said in an earlier post i cant go somewhere and just sit about,,maybe i should approach it with a different view,,,anyway enough waffling,,,thanks again mate,much appreciated...ian
pesky,thanks for the reply,and your right,no family !! so would be cheaper i think !! and thats what i came on here for originally,,tax,health advice etc and i as yet havnt looked or recieved any advice about it,even a lawyer ,is it neccessary to see one? still other things took over and i do think a visit is the proper way to continue,,but i will say being single now is what i would call a bonus when im looking for and considering an adventure like this !!
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