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Are there any genuine Egyptian men?

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69K views 175 replies 28 participants last post by  MaidenScotland  
#1 ·
From reading this forum it is clear that there are an awful lot of Egyptian men keen to use western woman for one purpose or another. My question is, do any of you know of any Egyptian men who have genuine relationships with a western woman and have not got an ulterior motive?!
 
#2 · (Edited)
Yes of course there are genuine men out there.
I have lots of friends who are married to Egyptian men and have had long successful marriages, however I will say they are all married to doctors or business men and not to a waiter they met on holiday. I am not saying that all waiters are just looking to exploit western women but sadly it does seem the norm... we see it time and time again.
I would think that any man you would meet through this forum offering you Arabic lessons or just wanna b ur friend is not genuine.. he is looking specifically for a western woman.. why women allow Egyptian men to treat them like pick ups is beyond me.. he wouldn't try and pick up an Egyptian woman like that her family would run him to ground... let them treat you as they would want their sister treated and see the difference!
Maiden
 
#64 ·
Yes, that's all very well ... tho' doesn't take into account the fact that, unless one goes about with an aggressive manner, speaking to no-one at all, many Egyptians (men and women alike) are drawn to us, simply because we're different (in my case, fair-skinned, blonde and English-looking!) some even treat us as if we're celebrities. Some of the attention however is gross:men parading up and down the street, just yards from where you may be sitting enjoying the sunshine and having a coffee with your nose in a book (we don't choose to be alone - making new friends happens gradually); young men following you, despite being firmly ignored, asking for 'just one minute' of your time, some even daring to grab at you inappropriately (how dare they?!). I've spoken to women more than twenty years younger than me and they, like me, are extremely careful not to wear clothes that could be seen as 'provocative', but then, compared to the semi and fully-veiled dress of most Egyptian women, just about any Western-style garb could feasibly be regarded as such and, given the reputation Western women have for being 'easy', many men think we're all fair game! It is a minefield out there, and even men one meets whose behaviour/ treatment is very 'correct' wouldn't turn down an opportunity for a sexual encounter if there was the remotest possibility of one.

Anyway, after being sexually assaulted by a young punk at least thirty years my junior last weekend (I was walking from beach to chalet wearing a long muslin shirt over my bikini), I am now even more careful about what I wear to the extent that sometimes it's just easier to stay in and not go out at all - surely a sad indictment of this 'cover up' society ...

Angelina
 
#3 ·
Yep, my boyfriend :D

Although, as MS also says - he is a professional man whom I have met out here, not on holiday, and known him well over a year as a friend before getting involved.

I should say, my ex husband was also genuine, even though he was a waiter I picked up on holiday - but post divorce is a whole other story :( (think that could well be a pride issue more than greed though).
 
#4 ·
Thanks both, and yipee - there is evidence of one genuine waiter! I have met a man on holiday (not a waiter but similiar - a junior manager at the hotel) and have spent a lot of time with him on my last visit when he paid for everything and never asked for any money from me, or for me to buy him anything. In fact he was very reluctant to talk about money at all when I wanted to pay for some meals etc. He's well educated but struggled to get work in the area he is educated in (foreign affairs) and so 'ran away' to Sinai to find work. He swears he is genuine (they all do I suppose) and talks very freely about his past, and his family and is keen for me to visit his home in the delta. My gut feel tells me he is a good guy but each time I read about the charlatans it puts the frighteners on me! If only I had a crystal ball..........!
 
#5 ·
and mine!!!!!!! :) :)

Seriously thou You have to trust yourself if it feels wrong it prob is.......but if it feels right and ur jut worried bout other people stories thats different!!

Every story is different some have happy endings, some dont unfortunately the don't is more common here but most shouldnt have started in the first place ...young men with old women.......keep your eyes open and blinkers off!!!

I have friends/colleagues married 10,20,30 and even 40 years (there is a huge age diff in staff :) :) ) all are happily married with children, grandchildren etc ....


On this topic did anybody read about the Sweedish woman in Hurghada 67yrs old who was murdered a number of weeks ago by her Egyptian toyboy she had 6 orfi marriages on the go all under the age of 27 (each to their own!) but 1 of them killed her?! I read the story online it hasnt really been spoken about here more hushed off??? But it was awful despite whatever was going on nobody deserves that?!
 
#7 ·
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

How awful - I hadn't heard that!

I am sure he will not be punished much either - I can't remember the phrase now "Glory Killing" doesn't sound right, but yeah they seem to have a way to justify this.

The same happened here in Sharm, it was rumoured. Of course never publicized. Apparently an Egyptian guy suspected his Ukranian wife of cheating, so said there was a problem and he had to go to Cairo for a few days. He stayed in Sharm and "surprised" his friend and wife in bed together, killed them both. Not sure if it's true, sounds plausible.


@AMT
My ex husband was a genuine guy and I know he loved me, but unfortunately I got "swept away" (you know how the story goes) and was married and pregnant before I had opened my eyes to reality. When reality struck I found a man telling me my daughter could never study at university as she couldn't leave home until she was married, and that I could never talk about religion to her unless I would preach Islam (not give her the facts and let her choose), and, and, and ... he was a genuine guy, there were other factors also, but eventually for the sake of my child more than anything I had to do what I felt was right, even if it was the hardest thing I've ever done.
Just keep your head about you, and think of all eventualities before rushing into anything. Discuss the future, the surprise is rarely a good one.
 
#6 ·
Hi there

I don't think that posting a thread asking if there's any genuine men in here would help you with your situation, not all people are the same, not in Egypt or any other country.

As both MaidenScotland and Sam did say, I think that any relationship would be a healthy one if it just kept developing in the right way, it's just like cooking a meal, people can't just take it out of the oven too early and then complain that it's not cooked yet!!


In your situation I think that you should just trust your inner feelings, and those lil emotions coming to surface every now and then in each person's mind??? Do not ignore them, just talk about it with him and see if the conversation would become real or fake, and it doesn't need a genius to tell the difference, an average human having the least human doubt will be able to tell the difference, specially when it comes to "love", and I think that will be much better for both of you, it wouldn't be fair to his part in case he is a genuine guy if you had enough doubts that you're keeping away from him would it? And that goes both ways, so if you do have enough doubts to make you start a thread like this one?? Just go straight with him, he'd give you the right answer (And of course you would know if it wasn't the right one), and it would be better then a million answers guessed by anyone.

Good luck
 
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#9 ·
Go with your feelings and see how it goes, but please remember Egyptian guys tell you that they love you very quickly (its a culture thing)
It is good that he hasn't expected you to spend any money but this often happens then you get reeled in and they work quite subtly on you after awhile it's I couldn't phone because I have lost my phone etc.. not saying your guy will do that just saying be wary.
Never tell them how much you earn.
If they ask do you have a car.. tell them it's your fathers
Plead poverty... a friend paid for you to come out etc

In Egypt guys are supposed to pay for everything, he wouldn't take an Egyptian girl out and expect her to put her hand in her pocket.

Good luck and I hope it goes the way you want

Maiden
 
#10 ·
Thanks to you all for your contributions. I am not one to accept my own feelings very readily - bit of a hard case really - so I let the stories I read rule my head, and my head rule my heart! On a personal level I really do think that he is a genuine chap, and the gossip it caused with his colleagues when they found out about us because he had never been known to socialise with a westerner before sorta backed up my feel that he hasn't made a habit of hitting on guests! We pretty much lived together for nearly a fortnight when visited and at no point did anything he did or said make me doubt him. That said, I have talked about the reputation of Eyptians to him before and I will again, I know he will be hurt but like you say DeadGuy, it's only fair to let him know that I am conscious of what goes on.
 
#11 ·
Hope you are the person you said you are :p

Many people are tough smart ones most of the time, but "love" does miracles as people say :D

And trust me, it wouldn't hurt him that much if he's a genuine guy, but on the contrary, he'd be happy that you're being honest and coming clean with him.

Good luck
 
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#13 ·
It's the changing bit that bothers me.
I had a maid who fell in love with guy here in Cairo, she is Fillipina and Christian and asked me for help in marrying him which I was happy to do.
It was when she started telling me that she would have to cover up when married, change her religion, not work, that I told her under no circumstances would I help her.. anyway she is in America having a ball.
I also have a friend who has been married for 35 years to a great guy.. I salsa with him as he loves to dance, he has a daughter of 23 and yet my friend tells me "he is becoming too Egyptian" in regards to his daughter.
And on another note I had an email from a friend in Scotland telling me that she and her Albanian husband have parted.. he just got up and left after 10 years.. 3 months after he got his indefinite stay... so it happens everywhere.
 
#15 ·
Hi there,

It does happen everywhere, but for some reason it happens in here more than anywhere else, may be it's something got to do with the water or anything? lol

As for your friend with the Albanian creature? Think she should haunt him and get her rights from him, if she was gonna let him be in Scotland anyway, I'd make sure he gets deported if it was me :D
 
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#16 ·
Going to put my head up over the parapet and probably get shot.

1. There is a huge social structure here,

2. Religion is drummed into people and more so poor people.. after all what have they got if
they don't have hope..

3. When your poor here you are poor, no social security to help.

4. The poor waiter who serves you on holiday could never in a million years afford a two week
package holiday in Egypt never mind overseas, so when he sees you coming here maybe 4
times a year then you are a millionaire, ok you had to save but at least you could..he can't.

5. You come over with all your money and money is power and he has no money therefore he
has no power so the manipulation comes in.. dress codes are suggested, religion is brought
up more and more because he is the man and your ONLY the woman.

6 His friends ask him, who is the boss in your house why is your wife sitting there drinking beer?

7 Poor people here will never be as worldly wise or as educated as your average holidaymaker
Not their fault but that's how it is, they believe what they see on American movies.

8 Read Catherine Cookson and how our poor mothers lived with drunken bullies and then change
it into modern day Egypt.. Take out the drunk and put religion in it's place.

9 A poor man here marrying a western woman has raised his social status money wise, but in
thinking it is easier for him to drag you down to his way of thinking than to pick himself up and
understand that your way of living has enabled him to do the things he now can.

10. Being rich doesn't make your life better it just makes your life easier.



Just my slant on it.
 
#18 ·
This is the most brief, honest and realistic opinion I ever heard, and I totally agree with each and every point mentioned in it.

But I wanna add something, the word "marriage" is used to define 2 people who are involved in a relationship, a partnership, and here I'd like to add #11:

11: For 90% of the Egyptian males, marriage means OWNERSHIP, not partnership, at all :eek:


No one started shooting you yet, but they will come :D Just hope you get shot down nicely.
 
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#17 ·
There are many genuine Egyptian guys out there - in that respect it's no different from any other country. You get the good and the bad. The tourist resorts tend to have more examples of the stereotypical Egyptian male seeking to pick up Western females and a significant number of those relationships don't seem to work out but that doesn't mean everyone should be tarred with the same brush.

I guess the main thing is to take your time: learn about the culture, what his expectations are in terms of religion, what his expectations are about the future, learn about his family and his background.

Mixed race marriages can work as I have many friends who are either in mixed race marriages or whose parents come from different backgrounds. But my view is that knowledge is key - I am Muslim but even I find certain aspects of Egyptian culture or certain religious practices difficult to come to terms with. I have many highly educated professional Egyptian male friends who have expectations of how their wives should behave and I would struggle to meet those expectations if I was married to them!

Relationships with someone from a different culture can be challenging but there are many people who have found it is worth it - enjoy getting to know him and I hope it works out for you.
 
#19 ·
I know and knew many genuine Egyptian men in and out of relationships with western women, mostly professional or military, usually with their own family money, but not all. All I think have had a good education though.
Some of my closest friends here have succesful long term marriages, with and without children.
But others don't, and they have lost money and property to men they trusted because they thought they loved them, some have been and indeed are still being threatened by their husbands. Some are still living in bliss unaware they their beloved is seeing other women when they are supposed to be working.
And yes I know this happens everywhere, but we are talking about Egypt here.
I think maybe we are seen to be only negative purely because we try to impress on women that not all men are as genuine as they seem, this culture IS different, and it is easy to be fooled.
 
#20 ·
If you are a Christian considering marrying a Muslim man things you need to think about:

Know the rights you are given in Islam but realize these rights are only good if he is willing to uphold them and live by them. So if he is a alcohol drinking, sex before marriage kind of Muslim don't expect him to uphold your rights because he only knows his religion when it is convenient to him. Typically these guys when they find their religion after a child is born do not have enough knowledge of the religion and end up being a bit extreme in their understanding. They are usually too lazy to find out the truth from an educated scholar and just except what they are told from the streets which is usually cultural and not Islam.
An example of your rights: Your money is your money and he has no rights to it and you don't have to spend one penny of it for the house (rent), food, clothes, utilities and all the needs of children. He has to pay for all of this, but you have to be willing to live with in his means. If you want more then he can afford he can tell you to buy your own Gucci hand bag. In Islam no where in the Quran is the wife required to cook & cleaner. Her job is only to raise good Muslim children. It is our nature to want to take care of things and not live in a mess so most women do it anyway. A Muslim huband can be required to provide a wife with a maid if his income affords it and the wife needs help.

Do you have to ask for his permission to leave the house? Is he going to allow you to have unlimited access to his money? Does he have to spend on the care of his family (mother/father, putting a brother through college)? Would he be willing to put property in your name only so if he dies you are not going to have to pay his relatives their inheritance to be able to stay in your home, if you live in Egypt. Is your mother in law going to come stay with you for extended periods of time?
Will he allow you to work after marriage? Is he going to limit what kind of job you can get?
Would he be interested in additional wives? (You can put in your marriage contract that he gives up his rights to additional wives.)
Where will you live?
If a man wants to marry you without you meeting his family there is something really really wrong. Marriages are not to be hidden but announced very openly. When the family finds out you got married in secret you will never be seen in a good light nor your family.

How many children? Birth control: which are exceptable? If you guys are NOT blessed with kids in the first few years of marriage does that mean divorce? If you have a girl child does he or his family believe in clitoridectomy? Just because he doesn't want it done doesn't mean if you leave you daughter with grandma for the afternoon she will not just have it done to your daughter. This is not a Muslim thing but a thing that is seen as allowable in Islam for the cultures that practice it. Most of the Muslim world does not practice it but in Egypt and other parts of Africa it is practiced.
What is your dowry going to be? You should expect one! It can be as small as memorizing verses of the Quran (like all of the ones about women's rights) and a ring, the other end of he spectrum is a whole apartment, filled with furniture, some gold, no additional wives, airline tickets every year to visit family for you and your future kids, the right to name your kids with out his approval, it is up to you two to agree on.

Realize that if you take an Egyptian back to GB or USA you will be teaching him everything on how to survive in that culture. Many Egyptians think the streets are paved with gold in the west and that money is so easy to come by. What they don't understand is that they will usually be forced to take jobs they will see as beneath them. Unless they are absolutely fluent in English and got a degree from a western accredited University their degree is worthless. I know of way too many foreigners that were Dr's in their country but are managers of Pizza Hut or a Taxi driver in the states after many years.

Marriages of diffrent culture is hard enough but marriages of different cultures and religion is far worse. I don't know of one marriage between a Muslim and Christian that has worked out well. Even when the wife converted eventually. I have seen women convert because they were convinced but then when they found out that their rebel Muslim husbands were falling far short of their requirements they started to pressure them to change for the better according to the religion. In the end the marriages finished in divorce.
 
#22 ·
If you are a Christian considering marrying a Muslim man things you need to think about:

I don't know of one marriage between a Muslim and Christian that has worked out well. Even when the wife converted eventually. I have seen women convert because they were convinced but then when they found out that their rebel Muslim husbands were falling far short of their requirements they started to pressure them to change for the better according to the religion. In the end the marriages finished in divorce.
I know of one marriage - my parents! They were happily married for 26 years. And my mother didn't convert.

Without wanting to get into a huge religious debate, as you have identified it's often the cultural interpretation of Islam that causes huge problems rather than the actual religion itself.
 
#25 ·
A good post

The guy that drinks and has sex before marriage and is a 20something waiter most likely will not stay that way... this is the major problem here they marry western girls and then expect the girl to change the minute they are married, not just Muslims Christian men are the same.. they suddenly want good Egyptian wives.
The Arab/Egyptian living in the west is not subjected to his mothers neighbours aunties cat asking why his wife has not had children and therefore doesn't have that pressure on them as a couple to have babies and in the west it is acceptable not to have children if that is your wish. Contraceptives are sold quite openly here in the supermarket and chemist.
Money.. the average Egyptian waiter is lying about what he she is getting into, it is quite common here for them to tell woman that they cannot buy property in their own name, cannot
buy the car in her name and so on and so on... they also tell them that Orfi is legal... which it certainly isn't and she finds out too late after she has bought the house in his name.


Maiden
 
#28 ·
Some very interesting and insightful posts.
A couple of points I would like to add:

Birth Control
I have often joked, and many agreed with me, that Egyptian women are classed into three categories, unmarried, pregnant or mothers (with the exception of infertile). Although it was just a friendly joke, it rang true. But, from my experiences, the women ask for the kids just as often if not more so than the women having motherhood forced upon them. And (again in my experience, not necessarily throughout Egypt or in the poorer classes) the couple will have as many kids as they can viably have and they will seek contraception - all Egyptian women I know tend to choose the loop or coil, something like 10 pounds in Cairo to get it fitted and ten years of protection & instantly fertile on removal. Anyway, my point is, most Egyptian girls do not even contemplate their future or possible careers as they grow up, many long only to be a housewife and to be rich in order to produce more kids.

Animals
Most Egyptians I know, regardless of religion, are genuinely terrified of animals. My ex used to tell me he wasn't scared, just disgusted by them as they're considered "dirty" (he was never particularly well informed on what was religious or cultural and seemed to just go with what suited him best and blamed it on religion). But when he jumps a mile on being surprised by a cat and runs a jumps and "protects himself" on the bed the time I brought home a kitten or can't even be in the same room as a dog, that's a phobia. The last time we were in Alex, we were leaving our apartment one day to find three teenage girls waiting for the lift... bear in mind the apartment we were in was at least 10-15 feet from where they were and our dog was on a lead (not an extendable one) and he didn't do anything, didn't bark or do anything, as we left they saw the dog and started screaming and shouting to take the monster away, it was like they were being attacked, one of them even started crying!!!! I find when we're out with the dog mostly Egyptians are intimidated. Many seem to try to act cool, but you can really tell they are not, and some will approach him to pat him, but go for his bum and not like it if his head gets close! From a religious point of view, my friend's husband, who is fine with animals had the opinion that they were fine in the house as long as there was one room in which they never entered where he could pray, and the animal should never touch him with his nose or lick him as this would make him "unpure" and he would have to wash (like after sex).

Islam is a very complicated religion, that I can agree on. My opinions on the religion, however, are best left unsaid. I have said in the past, I enjoy a good debate when the other debaters are also open to hear another point of view or opinion, but in such public forums I think it's best to just stick to the facts we see around us and let other people formulate their own opinions.
 
#29 ·
Excellent thread, Ive just finished reading the whole thread and my head is spinning!! Its so confusing, so many If's and but's deffinately not something to rush into!! I love reading and learning as much as I can, I also think it is important to have some sort of understanding when visiting new countries of their religion and customs.
Excellent guys. :)
 
#30 · (Edited)
hello, just to let you know i knew about expactforum from about half an hour (i saw a link for it in a site showing helps to Haiti people) and when i entered it i find egyptian flag so i clicked on it to see what is going on here and then i saw that post title " Are there any genuine Egyptian men?" intersting so i entered to see what you are saying here.

I saw badguy's comments and so i registered to reply on him
first of all badguy's comments most of it are wrong and he is trying to show that muslims and islam are/is bad and he is showing right facts in a way to let you all think that muslims and islams arenot good like that part related to "jihad" who said that changing someone from his relgion to islam is jihad or that part related to number of kids and wives totally wrong!!!!

I agree with most of what "MaidenScotland" and "tinytraverls" said and my opinion is not to hear "BadGuy"'s advices and i am sure 100% he isnot muslim and he is here to say certain words for certain purposes.....
In my opinion about what you are talking about is that the problem here is that even if you find genuine egyptian you must see how the difference in cultures and relgion will affect you (as TINYTRAVELER said in his long post) in the future because there are many differences you will see not only because he is muslim but also because he is egyptian and i think it is a veeeery stupid move to marry an egyptian waiter or similar job who you meet in a holiday because 99% they are trying to get benefits from you because a waiter is a not a well educated person here in Egypt

and just things which i think you should know
alot of egyptians guys pay for everything when their girls are with them so it isnot something unique if he is paying everything for, i amnot saying he is bad but i am only saying things which you may not know.
About drinking and having sex, it isnot something accepted on our society and people go far away from someone who is doing that because he isnot a good person... for example no parents here accept to let their daughter marries to someone who drinks only (99.5% of parents do that here) so imagine how that is totally wrong in egypt
and person who is drinking or having sex or not fast in ramadan or pray isnot considered a muslim except in his personal id, and that don't mean he may stop doing these things....
last thing about the education of people in egypt, everyone in egypt goes to college because it is free, so seeing a waiter who finished his college don't mean he is well educated....

sorry for my bad english :)
 
#31 · (Edited)
Hi there,

First of all, I wanna admit that manipulating my nickname turning it into “BadGuy” did make me laugh, though I don’t really see any reason to do that, but that’s part of why it made me laugh anyway, the unexpected random words make me laugh :D , and it gave me an idea about what kinda person you are lol

And since you said “I saw badguy's comments and so i registered to reply on him” so I will try and reply your “comments” on my own.

I’m not trying to make anyone look good or bad, I’m just stating facts, and I did say that I won’t go into religious details if you could actually read my posts, I also said that “Bible says many things just as Qura'an does, but who's really following any???” So I think I was fair, cause that’s how religion is for most people in Egypt, words printed in a book!

I also said “if you wanna know what Islam/Christianity or whatever religion is?? Just watch people practicing and living by its rules!” And I believe that this is the best way to learn about anything, people owning a car or a house always claim that they got the best car/house whenever it is mentioned, so if you wanna know more about it?? Just try the car or take a look at the house! And again, I said “Islam/Christianity or whatever religion” so again, I think I was fair enough, but if you think that there’s something wrong about learning more about religions by watching people practicing it and living by its rules then it would be up to you, and up to everyone, I just said my opinion, everyone’s free to decide how to learn about anything.

And there is a kind of “Jihad” that’s done by reproducing and converting non Muslims into Muslims, may be you don’t really know that and may be you do but you don’t wanna admit it, but either ways, “that” kind of “Jihad” is practiced by many people everywhere on earth….. You can see it so clear in UK, it’s becoming an European KSA these days for some reason! Specially Birmingham!! And why is that happening??? I’ll leave the answer to be guessed, just to make everyone decide for themselves so I don’t get accused of “giving bad images about this or that” lol

As for colleges and having the colleges’ degrees for free in here, yes, governmental colleges’ fees are almost zero in here comparing to other countries, and though the education is crap in colleges in here, but that’s not the topic; but you of all people in here should know how it works in here as you are an Egyptian yourself, but since you mentioned it, I’ll try to explain it to those who don’t know how it works.

It all depends on the marks/scores, after the primary schooling, scores decide if students will be studying in secondary schools (Like High schools in USA, well, kinda lol) or craft’s ones, and those who get qualified for secondary schools get in another score race to decide what college they’ll be in, and basically this stupid race goes for 2 months, one month of exams in each stage, stage one and two, so you can guess what would happen if someone got sick during exams!! So as you can see, not everyone gets the chance to be doctor or something as the Gentleman did try to imply.

But personally I don’t judge anyone by education, there are low lives who just got lucky with their scores or even cheated to get them (Not to mention that the educational system in here supports memorizing actually, so if you just have a good memory with a dead brain you will get high scores lol) and there are smart people who didn’t get lucky enough to study what they should’ve been studying; besides, I do not trust the educational system in here, my friends and I always made jokes about why Egyptian children aged less than 6 years old are one of the smartest children in the whole world??? But ONLY kids LESS than 6 years old!! Cause kids start going school at age 6 in Egypt :D

So it’s not all about education, education is a factor yes, but it’s not what it’s all about, some people were born to be people, and some people were born to be pain in the a$$! That’s just life!!! And personally what matters for me is respect, self respect actually, don’t care if someone’s a rocket scientist or not when dealing with him/her, but respect does the entire job.


Anyway, I think I was being fair to all parts, or at least been trying to! I been stating facts not throwing accusations based on imaginary stuff, if you could see that, then so be it, but if you can’t see it then I suggest you learn a lil bit more about how life is in here, but if you’re just trying to defend yourself or others, then I’m sorry if you were offended, but you know what Egyptians say, “Elly ala raso bat-ha” lol

Thanks for the “BadGuy” thing, you did make me laugh :D

Have a nice time everyone, specially you 0Ahmed0 :)
 
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#34 ·
please,please be careful

I just finished a long term relationship with an Egyptian. When I met him he was married to a woman he met in Egypt where he worked as a safari boy. They got married eventually and he came to live in UK. Started cheating on her after less then a year. When I met him he convinced me their marriage wasn't working and he was about to get a divorce, our romance ended after I realised something didn't quite add up (them living together etc, everytime I'd come over he'd take her pictures off the wall and hide them behind the sofa).
A year passed and we worked together so I knew all that time what was happening in his life, the day he got his indefinite leave to remain stamp in his passport was the day he really left her, moved out etc blaming his marriage breakdown on her immaturity etc. He asked me out again and me being the naive **** that I am I gave him the benefit of the doubt.
Things have moved on quickly and we started living together after about 4 months, in that time I got to know a lot of his friends, all from Egypt, all married to UK girls, all being married to them for a visa. One of his 20-something friends married a 50 year old woman, apparently he was in love with her. The thing is a man like that will never admit he got married for the wrong reasons, even my ex always used to say it was her fault the marriage didn't work out and everytime we had a fight he'd say to me: you are like typical english wife (even though Im not English). I couldn't get my head around it and eventually stopped trusting him, I found his old phone once and went through his messages, sad, horrible text messages his ex wife sent demanding answers, not knowing till the last day what had happened, demanding answers why has he left her. I have no clue whether he was ever really serious about me but as our relationship progressed he would continuously express his dislike in the fact that I was an atheist and that even "being a Christian was better then being nothing", try introduce me to Islamic readings ("A role of a woman in Islam"), he bullied me into wearing clothes I hated, I was never a girl to reveal a lot of skin but even tank tops in the summer became a problem etc. During this relationship my self esteem reached all time low
and I found myself waiting for him at home, with a 6 course dinner cooked, exhausted from cleaning all day and he'd come home, praise me but god forbid I expressed any frustration or anger. Even me saying I was tired was a no no and would make him giving me a 2 day silent treatment. I was so exhausted and after 2 years was wondering where this gentle, loving man has gone. He eventually admitted to his family he was divorced and had a new western woman, they weren't impressed. During that time he'd mention of few occasions that we shouldn't be living together and should make things "right". He was so impressed when his friend's wife converted to Islam and looked at me as if I should be heading in the same direction. If I talked to a waiter in a restaurant he'd go in a mood screaming at me, saying that "I already said thank you, why do you even have to look at him"
It was horrid, we're not together any more and I am receiving counselling at the moment to help me recover.
I wouldn't base my judgement purely on my relationship but it was his friendships (only with Muslims, I was the only non Muslim close to him) and his friends from Egypt that married and moved to UK and never really adapted to Western way of life that made me think if such relationship was ever gonna work without a woman giving up her identity, values and hopes it would have to been a pure miracle.
 
#35 ·
I just finished a long term relationship with an Egyptian. When I met him he was married to a woman he met in Egypt where he worked as a safari boy. They got married eventually and he came to live in UK. Started cheating on her after less then a year. When I met him he convinced me their marriage wasn't working and he was about to get a divorce, our romance ended after I realised something didn't quite add up (them living together etc, everytime I'd come over he'd take her pictures off the wall and hide them behind the sofa).
A year passed and we worked together so I knew all that time what was happening in his life, the day he got his indefinite leave to remain stamp in his passport was the day he really left her, moved out etc blaming his marriage breakdown on her immaturity etc. He asked me out again and me being the naive **** that I am I gave him the benefit of the doubt.
Things have moved on quickly and we started living together after about 4 months, in that time I got to know a lot of his friends, all from Egypt, all married to UK girls, all being married to them for a visa. One of his 20-something friends married a 50 year old woman, apparently he was in love with her. The thing is a man like that will never admit he got married for the wrong reasons, even my ex always used to say it was her fault the marriage didn't work out and everytime we had a fight he'd say to me: you are like typical english wife (even though Im not English). I couldn't get my head around it and eventually stopped trusting him, I found his old phone once and went through his messages, sad, horrible text messages his ex wife sent demanding answers, not knowing till the last day what had happened, demanding answers why has he left her. I have no clue whether he was ever really serious about me but as our relationship progressed he would continuously express his dislike in the fact that I was an atheist and that even "being a Christian was better then being nothing", try introduce me to Islamic readings ("A role of a woman in Islam"), he bullied me into wearing clothes I hated, I was never a girl to reveal a lot of skin but even tank tops in the summer became a problem etc. During this relationship my self esteem reached all time low
and I found myself waiting for him at home, with a 6 course dinner cooked, exhausted from cleaning all day and he'd come home, praise me but god forbid I expressed any frustration or anger. Even me saying I was tired was a no no and would make him giving me a 2 day silent treatment. I was so exhausted and after 2 years was wondering where this gentle, loving man has gone. He eventually admitted to his family he was divorced and had a new western woman, they weren't impressed. During that time he'd mention of few occasions that we shouldn't be living together and should make things "right". He was so impressed when his friend's wife converted to Islam and looked at me as if I should be heading in the same direction. If I talked to a waiter in a restaurant he'd go in a mood screaming at me, saying that "I already said thank you, why do you even have to look at him"
It was horrid, we're not together any more and I am receiving counselling at the moment to help me recover.
I wouldn't base my judgement purely on my relationship but it was his friendships (only with Muslims, I was the only non Muslim close to him) and his friends from Egypt that married and moved to UK and never really adapted to Western way of life that made me think if such relationship was ever gonna work without a woman giving up her identity, values and hopes it would have to been a pure miracle.

Wow!!! u sums up what I needed to know about Egyptian men. Anybody going with an Egyptian relationship should consider to get to know them first for a long time before marrying them. You will be alright and with the experience you went through will helps us women to reconsider and make decisions with our relationship with these Egyptian men. Time heals thank goodness.:confused2:
 
#36 ·
Hi Karakas,

I've only just seen this post.

What a horrible experience you have been through, thank you for sharing with us. I would like to congratulate you for not giving in to all of his pressures, as many girls in the same situation as you would have. And better still well done for getting out of that situation. I hope now that you are receiving counseling you are getting through this, if you ever want to chat to someone who has also got out of a relationship with an Egyptian then feel free to PM me anytime, chatting always helps, but chatting to someone who can 100% empathise is better. (you just have to make 4 more posts to enable PMs).



@leyte
You are right, of course you should get to know your partner before marrying them - this should apply for any nationality, not just a relationship with an Egyptian. The problem is that due to the "muslim ways" girls feel pressurised to take a decision of all or nothing. And when they are so in love they choose the all, and get married before they even know what they are marrying in to. If the muslim world would just accept boyfriend/girlfriend relationships I think things would be much easier.
 
#37 ·
Hi there,

My personal opinion about people who are married but yet they’re trying to get into a relationship is that they’re really messed up people, a married man/lady is supposed to be focusing ONLY on his/her marriage, and regardless of what were the reasons for any marriage to take place (Just cause it already happened, there’s nothing can be done about it cause it’s a too late to know why they got married or if there were ulterior motives or not), so what I think about people who are STILL married but still trying to be with someone else is that they’re sick ones!

Personally I believe in a couple of things that should be done in an unhappily marriage:

1-Try to fix the marriage, but I mean to be really trying, not just “trying”, cause in many cases no one actually tries to fix anything, even if they do have kids!

2-If fixing it didn’t work then finish it cause it won’t be good to anyone to keep living unhappily.

3-When it’s finished, you can do whatever you wanna do or date who ever you wanna date, but before the marriage is over, no one should forget that they’re a MARRIED man/lady!

Now for those who tend to complain about how unhappy they are, a “man” cheating on his wife for a bunch of reason doesn’t make him an unhappy husband, it makes him a pig! And in the same way, a “lady” cheating on her husband for the same reason makes her a ****! Sorry for my language but that’s my personal opinion, if someone is not happy in his/her marriage then they should just figure it out and/or get it done (Whether getting it done by fixing things or getting a divorce), and for those reasons, a married man”/”lady” should never be trusted in a relationship! Simply cause what he/she’s doing with their partner could (Will actually) happen with their new partners eventually!

As for Ms karakas’s situation, I believe that you made a mistake trusting him, a “man” complaining “that” much about his “wife” (Though they were recently married, you said he started cheating on her in less then a year!!) And though he kept complaining about her and how “bad” she is! He still didn’t leave her! I wonder why is that!!!! But how can anyone with that attitude be believed? But I guess that’s what’s meant by “Love is blind” where you don’t see the other sides of anyone!

As for the part where he tried to change you! It just happens! The reasons why did that happen are complicated, but it just happens, and you said that his friends are mostly like him, actually said that one of his “friends” succeeded converting his non Muslim wife! So I think it’s just part of something that’s uglier than it sounds! Not gonna talk about it, cause I did before, and I got my deal of attacks when I did, so I'm not gonna go through it again :confused2:

I don’t think you need counseling, just think carefully about what he really is and what he did and you’ll see that he’s just not worth it!! And like what Sam said, you actually need a reward for not giving in and doing what he wanted you to do! You’re smart, you’re tough and you’re still there even after the crap he made you go through! So the way I see it??? He’s the one needing counseling, not you!


As for leyte6519, it’s really hard to know what an Egyptian is really like, but you need to know that the majority of them are sick enough to be staying away from them! That’s all I can say.


God bless the democracy and the immigration laws in some countries!

Good luck
 
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#38 ·
.



@leyte
If the muslim world would just accept boyfriend/girlfriend relationships I think things would be much easier.[/QUOTE]

So the Muslim world should adopt a more Westernised approach to relationships before marriage - by that I presume you are saying that if Muslims could adopt a more western approach to dating then it would mean girlfriends would know their Muslim boyfriends better which would mean fewer problem marriages. What a good idea. Oh hang on, isn't there a high divorce rate in many Western countries - how does that happen if boyfriend/girlfriend relationships "make things easier"?

Don't get me wrong, I am not blind to the problems that occur in mixed marriages. I think TinyTraveller summed up excellently the issues that should be considered in an earlier post. And in some parts of the Muslim world (which lets face it, is a rather big and diverse community to be generalised about), the concept of "dating" is evolving. But it's rather laughable to suggest that the Western concept of "dating" has the solutions - the divorce rates in the West certainly don't reflect that.
 
#40 ·
So the Muslim world should adopt a more Westernised approach to relationships before marriage - by that I presume you are saying that if Muslims could adopt a more western approach to dating then it would mean girlfriends would know their Muslim boyfriends better which would mean fewer problem marriages. What a good idea. Oh hang on, isn't there a high divorce rate in many Western countries - how does that happen if boyfriend/girlfriend relationships "make things easier"?

Don't get me wrong, I am not blind to the problems that occur in mixed marriages. I think TinyTraveller summed up excellently the issues that should be considered in an earlier post. And in some parts of the Muslim world (which lets face it, is a rather big and diverse community to be generalised about), the concept of "dating" is evolving. But it's rather laughable to suggest that the Western concept of "dating" has the solutions - the divorce rates in the West certainly don't reflect that.
Hi there,

Have you heard of what's called a "Halal date"??? Just like the halal meat???

The way I see it? The problem is that Muslims are not willing to blend in any community, they just want everyone to be thinking the way they do, doing what they do, become what they are! In the mean while, they do change, but only when it fits them! The first time I ever heard that "Halal DATE" I almost had a heart attack from laughing so much at it! A date is a date! So why manipulating it if it is clear that it is wrong??? Or is it just cause the word "Halal" was added to it????

If someone's asking other people to "respect" their habits??? Then they should do the same! If European countries are such a horrible place to live in with their horrible hateful hater people?? Then why they keep flying there and living there???

When a "kafer" comes to Egypt, he/she's supposed to be dressing "ok" when he/she's here, not supposed to eat during the day in Ramadan, not supposed to do this and that, and guess what??? MANY of the tourists in here respect that! And they're only here for FEW DAYS!!! But a Muslim LIVING in Europe?? God forbid! They gotta be the center of the whole country and the whole country's supposed to respect them!! But when they like the dating thing??? They do change and they come up with the "Halal date" thing!!!!!!! I call that double standards! And it's a lil bit.........Stupid?

Good luck!
 
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#39 ·
Whatever religion or reasons for divorce, you've gotta be singing from the same song sheet for any marriage to work! I personally think that marriage is too easy!

In the west it seems to me that too much emphasis is put on sex, infatuation and love rather than friendship, compatibility and responsibility
 
#41 ·
In the west, unmarried couples are more loyal and more honest with each other than married couples in here, and that's what makes marriages easier in there, and that's the problem in here, respect!
 
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#42 ·
Thanks guys, it does make me feel better knowing I am not the only one who went trhough this. The reason why Im getting counselling is because like I said my self esteem has reached all time low and during our relationship I constantly kept asking myself what is it that I've done wrong, why is it not working out? I blamed myself, I loved (still do really) this man (or maybe who I thought he was) so much and many of the situations that arose left me feeling so confused and questioning my own judgement. He was happy for us to celebrate Christmas, with presents, cards and a christmas tree in our house, in return he expected me not to ever go and visit my close friend if her boyfriend was in the house which in his opinion was something that a "proper woman" would know not to do. And I would obey this ridiculous request for awhile, naively thinking that relationships were all about compromise. I gave up a lot of things that I used to enjoy doing in order to keep him happy and it took a bit of time for me to realise that compromise was only from my side, he was only ever happy to do something for me if it suited him (ie Xmas, he liked the idea, not the religious, but cultural part of it, it was simply a fun thing to celebrate). If we went out with friends (mostly his male friends) he'd always took me with him but I was expected to just sit there and agree with everything he said, I once made a silly joke about him and we all laughed and after coming back home there was a huge fight, how could I ever humiliate him like that in public.
Before he met his wife, while working in Sinai he had an older girlfriend from Netherlands and he was going to move to live with her but it didn't work out in the end. That made me think that going to Europe or US was always on his agenda even though he always used to say that his life was better in Egypt and he never wanted to leave his country in a first place. But like I said before he was too proud to admit that he sank to that low level of using another human being to have a chance for better life, too proud to even admit it to himself.
And don't think I have just decided to ignore all the warning signs when I met him. He was a fun, sucsessful, hamdsome man who would take me out for drinks, clubbing,, and complement me on how beautiful I looked in that short dress. We would get a bottle of wine on Friday night, watch a movie, made love and things were great. He seemed to be so westernised. 2 years later I found myself shopping for clothes, measuring whether the blouse I was about to buy was modest enough and always buying vests to wear underneath my tops because he'd get angry if the outline of my bra was visible.
I found his wedding video on his laptop once, it was filmed in Egypt, his English wife wore a normal wedding dress, showing her arms and a bit of chest but pictures they took after he moved to UK to live with her showed her on nights out being completely covered. His attitude probably stayed relaxed until they properly started living together. And that's why he left because she probably never fulfilled his idea of how a woman should be. And I know she loved him, had he been more patient she'd definitely convert to Islam and live unhappily for the rest of her life, so in a way he did her a favour.
I really thought that if people really love each other all that stuff won't matter but I've learned the hard way. Islam is not only the religion, its the way of life. And for majority of Muslims Islam is not a faith, it's a fact, undisputable, unquestionable fact. It comes with 100s of rules that need to be followed.
The way we were raised, all our lives being told that when 2 people are in a relationship they are faithful to each other, that cheating is not acceptable - imagine a guy/girl shows up and you fall madly in love. And then they tell you that even though they love you they have to sleep with other people, you wouldn't stand for that would you, even if they were the best thing that's ever happened to you. Because that's how you were raised, that's what they thought you, it's an undisputable norm in your world.
And this is how they think about things that are trivial to us, it's rooted so deeply in their souls that you can not expect a compromise.
That's why again I think that these relationships can work out but you need to forgive who you were before as a woman and if you decided that your new partner and life with him are worth it, then good on you.
 
#44 ·
Ms karakas,

Compromise is something, and sacrifice is another thing that's totally different.

You said you loved him, still do according to your words, do you think he's really worth that?? A person that's in love is supposed to be accepting his/her partner the way they are, did he accept you the way you are??

You haven't done anything wrong if you want my opinion, except for trusting the wrong "man".

You lost a battle, still got a war to win, so just get ready for that lol.

Best of luck
 
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#47 ·
Karakas,

So much of what you have said, actually everything, is so familiar. Enjoying your time pre-relationship, drinking etc etc. It starts with a compromise, and then you realise there is no compromise, it's only you being the forgiving one.

Just be thankful you have got out alone, I mean childless. I still have deep concerns about the future of my daughter. I wish for her all the best in life, freedom and free thinking. And yet at 2 years old I find photos of her on my ex's facebook page of her in Cairo dressed in hijab. And she knows how to pray (well she does the moves and says Allah Akbar). She's only just turned two as well. She loves her Daddy and I could never deprive her of him or him of her, but I do worry about her future, a lot. I can't and won't tell her who she should be or what religion she should follow, she should make her own informed decision after being presented with all the facts, and I would support her in her choice, be it Muslim, Christian, Buddhist even - but I know from the father's side of the family there is no choice. It's like you say - it's not a religion, it's a way of life, and it's the only way of life - everything else is WRONG.

Can you believe she knows how to pray, but she can't count to five in Arabic?! MensEtManus's post about the religious fanaticism really sums it up - religion is no longer a choice but forced down our throats.

Okay, so with that statement I am preparing to get flamed... but that is my justified opinion.

Sam
 
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