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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hang on, what is going on here ?

https://www.thelocal.fr/20170929/macron-plea-for-french-expats-to-come-home-falls-on-deaf-ears

Exapts what to move to France for the better quality of life, food, healthcare :)))....but it seems the French who have moved abroad don't.

I quote:

“England’s job opportunities are much better than in France. I would never have been able to be a marketing director in France, but in England I sent in one application and I was hired,” said French expat in London Jérôme Blin"

"Soon to be moving over to London, Frenchman Sébastien Charrier said: “The employment opportunities in London make me want to give it a go"

Other French expats who’d returned home from the UK told The Local they regretted the decision.

“I’ve just come back to France and it does nothing to help its fellow citizens. It’s a catastrophe to see how we’re treated when we return,” said Magali Teibog.

"Another recently returned expat, Jane, said: “I came back home and I regret it. There’s too many hurdles, especially to get work. I should have stayed abroad and now I’m considering leaving again.”


:confused:
 

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From what I can determine from posters here, Smeggie, most come to France with a job already sorted or to retire, or are "trailing spouses". As we all know, Smeggie, you are an exception! :) :) :)

France is a great place to live in, for reasons often discussed here. As the French expats say in your quote, France is not a great place to work and to carve our a career. I've taught French students at a Business School (ESC) and the majority did not see their careers starting in France.....many had done an exchange year overseas so they had some international exposure.

The reasons given to me by French students were

  • Career immobility....if you qualify in finance then you are in finance for life.
  • Dead men's shoes....sorry, dead persons' shoes not to be sexist.
  • Administration for setting up companies, VAT etc
  • The idea that length of service governs promotion etc
  • Informality. I had students returning from a stage in London. They were surprised that they were expected to call their boss by their first name from day 1.

I am sure these are not all true all of the time...but it gives you an idea.



DejW


Hang on, what is going on here ?

https://www.thelocal.fr/20170929/macron-plea-for-french-expats-to-come-home-falls-on-deaf-ears

Exapts what to move to France for the better quality of life, food, healthcare :)))....but it seems the French who have moved abroad don't.

I quote:

“England’s job opportunities are much better than in France. I would never have been able to be a marketing director in France, but in England I sent in one application and I was hired,” said French expat in London Jérôme Blin"

"Soon to be moving over to London, Frenchman Sébastien Charrier said: “The employment opportunities in London make me want to give it a go"

Other French expats who’d returned home from the UK told The Local they regretted the decision.

“I’ve just come back to France and it does nothing to help its fellow citizens. It’s a catastrophe to see how we’re treated when we return,” said Magali Teibog.

"Another recently returned expat, Jane, said: “I came back home and I regret it. There’s too many hurdles, especially to get work. I should have stayed abroad and now I’m considering leaving again.”


:confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
From what I can determine from posters here, Smeggie, most come to France with a job already sorted or to retire, or are "trailing spouses". As we all know, Smeggie, you are an exception! :) :) :)

France is a great place to live in, for reasons often discussed here. As the French expats say in your quote, France is not a great place to work and to carve our a career. I've taught French students at a Business School (ESC) and the majority did not see their careers starting in France.....many had done an exchange year overseas so they had some international exposure.

The reasons given to me by French students were

  • Career immobility....if you qualify in finance then you are in finance for life.
  • Dead men's shoes....sorry, dead persons' shoes not to be sexist.
  • Administration for setting up companies, VAT etc
  • The idea that length of service governs promotion etc
  • Informality. I had students returning from a stage in London. They were surprised that they were expected to call their boss by their first name from day 1.

I am sure these are not all true all of the time...but it gives you an idea.



DejW

So actively mobile expats only move to France to set up gîtes or teach English ?

Why don't the french do that ?

My OH is bilingual ? She could teach English.....and open a gîte.
 

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I think you need to read between the lines of the posts from many (but not all) people who ask about gites and teaching English.

If you are in a busy job in the UK, a "restful" retirement in France with a bit of income on the side is very attractive. No matter that the reality is a bit different.

DejW

So actively mobile expats only move to France to set up gîtes or teach English ?

Why don't the french do that ?

My OH is bilingual ? She could teach English.....and open a gîte.
 

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Oh well, it seems to me that most young(ish?) French people dream of moving to Australia. It's way easier to move to the UK.

I can fully understand why young people (of most nationalities BTW) want to try their luck overseas. That said, I'm not sure you can read too much into the comments of the very few.

And, of course, it will take years for Macron's policies to have the desired effect (if they ever do).

Bear in mind, too, that the French lose access to health cover etc until they have been back in the country for 3 months (pretty much having to jump through the same hoops as UK expats).

(I'm sure they didn't ask anyone who lived in Grenfell Towers.)
 

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One article on a website is enough to get you all worked up?

Or could it be the troll in you...
He must have trawled the internet for hours to come up with that load of old tripe ( or is it andouille?).

Nice work if you can get it.
 

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I'd always heard that in the past French expats often came back home after two to five years working elsewhere in the world; missing all things French too much...

Things seem to be changing in the last ten to twenty years with the establishment of permanent French expat communities in Dubai, Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, USA, Spain, Portugal etc. The new French expat has become self-sufficient.

What pipe dream is Macron peddling that can uproot busy, imaginative, unfettered creators from their stimulating new environment?
He'll get the tired, the sick, the old, the failures coming back to France.

There's absolutely no long term visibility about economy in France, about society, about education, about justice.
Forever new laws and plans but those who are supposed to enforce or carry out the new, new, new policies haven't even understood how the previous ones were supposed to work.
The information is often out of date, unavailable, incomprehensible and you can bet your buttons that in four years' time it'll all go into fusion again.

Well, if Macron gets through his 5 year mandate and follows through with another one maybe there'll be enough stability, dynamism and positive vibrations
to actually turn French expats' heads and draw them to a new liberal eldorado.

All we can say for the moment is "c'est pas gagné".
I have a hunch that Manu Macron will seek to replace Tusk or Junker when he's sick and tired of trying to reform France.
 

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This week's Economist has a "Special Report" section on Macron and France and the changes he has promised and what it's going to take to make them happen. The running theme is that the changes he is proposing are going to be hard to make, and that it will take time before the benefits are apparent.

Methinks it may be a bit early to try luring French expats back to the Old Country. Perhaps after some of the big changes and simplifications are in place and starting to show some results.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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Okay, I feel in some more struggling countries (perhaps for education and upward mobility or something), say, Pakistan....they would leave to Europe or the US or Canada or Australia for job opportunities etc. But when a French guy goes to England, maybe they just wanted a change of scenery or had an itch for a different life, like me being an expat? In other words, I wouldn't say every French person who left France did it to find amazing job opportunities etc. I feel that fits more with expats from other countries, maybe Romania or again some Middle Eastern countries.

Point being...if their (the French) reason for leaving wasn't job opportunity and economic prosperity in the first place, then why would promises of that lure them back? Maybe they're just over the culture, like I'm kinda over American culture. People who choose to move sometimes seem to be bored with their own country and want something more! Unless, again, it IS specifically to get out of a bad situation...
 

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This week's Economist has a "Special Report" section on Macron and France and the changes he has promised and what it's going to take to make them happen. The running theme is that the changes he is proposing are going to be hard to make, and that it will take time before the benefits are apparent.

Methinks it may be a bit early to try luring French expats back to the Old Country. Perhaps after some of the big changes and simplifications are in place and starting to show some results.
Cheers,
Bev
Perhaps if France turns out to be unique and trickle-down for some inexplicable reason works here.

Some of the wealthy look like returning following the change to ISF, but whether that will have any benefit for France is another question altogether. In any case, some of the wealthy who left because of the ISF have continued to invest in France, whereas there's nothing to say that the tax changes and ISI will result in investment in France as opposed to elsewhere.
 

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I suspect one rarely becomes an expat for no reason.... I mean, there had to be some discontent with the homeland or culture already to want to explore elsewhere. Even as a spouse expat, why did I fall in love with someone so radically different from the men I around me at home? Obviously there were values and attitudes that attracted me, I was not feeling content with those where I was.

I think, to attract the french expats back, they'd have to see some real change here first. It might be a bit early yet.

It always seems to me, when I talk to french people wanting to go elsewhere (at to the US, those ones are more likely to tell me about their plans) are young people who search exciting opportunities. They are turned off by all the things that get in the way of finding employment and moving ahead, ready to face higher risk in order to have a chance at higher gain.

The system here all seems to be geared towards sustaining stability and security. If that is what you seek, it is good for that. But if you're ambitious? Meh.

I have a son who is studying physics and engineering, he likes the way Macron is inviting innovation and research, hopeful that it will open more opportunities for kids like him.

But for the moment he's doing research in sustainable energy .... in Malta.

We'll just have to see. I'm going to go finish cleaning my gîte now.
 

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I suspect one rarely becomes an expat for no reason.... I mean, there had to be some discontent with the homeland or culture already to want to explore elsewhere.
Eh, not necessarily, I think. I've always been a bit amazed at how I tend to "fall into" things in my life. Sure, I studied languages and loved to travel. But in several cases, I can point where where opportunities kind of dropped into my lap (based on various serendipitous choices I had made) and the opportunity just seemed too good to pass up. One oddball choice led to another and voilà, here I am!

Plus, I think it's a bit premature at this point for Macron (or any politician) to try to entice the expatriated French to return back to the Mothership (or Fatherland or whatever). There have not yet been any significant changes here that would entice young people back to France. ("How you gonna keep them down on the farm, after they've seen London or Los Angeles or wherever they've gone?" - to paraphrase a bit.) Even Macron is admitting that France is unreformable, and I suspect that's probably the thought of the young folks who have split for what they see as greener pastures.

Maybe what he ought to be shooting for is to make some changes to the working laws and cultures and then try to attract foreigners to participate in shifting the culture off its comfortable resting place. Invite some new ideas and help develop a better tolerance of shared risk in the working environment. But it's significant (at least to me) that few if any of the politicians have ever served for any length of time in another country to experience another system and see what works and what doesn't.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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There is very, very little that Macron (and his government) has done or promised that I personally approve of. My biggest issues, though, are that (1) they seem incapable of drilling down into the detail of the potential impacts of their policies and budget, (2) many of their policies have failed everywhere else (unless you actually believe that eg, things are just great in the UK :D ), (3) cuts to regions and local government (might as well include in that the taxe d'habitation).
 

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But in several cases, I can point where where opportunities kind of dropped into my lap (based on various serendipitous choices I had made) and the opportunity just seemed too good to pass up. One oddball choice led to another and voilà, here I am!
But don't you agree that the only reason they looked to you like "opportunities" was that they seemed to be offering something that you wanted, that you couldn't find in the place where you were at the time? Even if it was only the attraction of expanding your horizons and trying a new experience. I think that being discontent, as Bluesma said, doesn't necessarily mean you actively dislike where you are, it can just mean that you have questions in your mind that you want to find answers to, that you won't find if you stay in familiar surroundings all your life.
 

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Maybe we have a different concept of "discontent" or something. Bluesma mentioned : " I mean, there had to be some discontent with the homeland or culture already to want to explore elsewhere."

Sometimes the urge for going comes from being bored in the job you have - and there is always the possibility of simply finding another job somewhere locally or in the same country. It's not a huge step from that to, "well, heck, I've got these two languages I studied - why not see if I could put them to use for a change?"

We speak here on the forum about "running from" vs. "running to" something when moving overseas. Maybe that's the difference. I never really thought about whether or not I'd go back one day when I moved over here (the second time). OK, today there is no way I'd ever go back - but at the time it really wasn't anything I'd given any thought to.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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Maybe we have a different concept of "discontent" or something. Bluesma mentioned : " I mean, there had to be some discontent with the homeland or culture already to want to explore elsewhere."

Sometimes the urge for going comes from being bored in the job you have - and there is always the possibility of simply finding another job somewhere locally or in the same country. It's not a huge step from that to, "well, heck, I've got these two languages I studied - why not see if I could put them to use for a change?"

We speak here on the forum about "running from" vs. "running to" something when moving overseas. Maybe that's the difference. I never really thought about whether or not I'd go back one day when I moved over here (the second time). OK, today there is no way I'd ever go back - but at the time it really wasn't anything I'd given any thought to.
Cheers,
Bev
 
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