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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
... reasons or the weather? Isn't that stereotyping expats? Why do some expats living here think all expats have to live like they choose to live or are odd man out? There are manifold reasons to retire in Mexico or work here. Does it always have to be the reasons you choose to move from the US or Canada or can't some understand other expats situations and needs and desires? Not communicating with locals in Spanish can be a very trying experience for some and changes their needs to feel comfortable considerably, I feel.
 

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I think most people are highly motivated by money issues, so all they can think about is how to live more cheaply.

I used to be that way. I would shop at the discount stores, and go home so upset I'd be shaking with rage at the outrageous conduct of the store employees and customers, and the need to drive all over town looking for something I wanted. My wife would go to an upscale department store downtown, and have a pleasant peaceful day, with pleasant clerks, a nice tea room downstairs, and got everything she wanted in one store. I thought she was foolish for spending a few dollars extra. I finally had an epiphany, and realized she was the smart one.

I tell people if the only reason you want to live in Mexico is to save money, you will not last long. If you cannot make friends with the Mexican people, you will not be happy in Mexico.
 

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What a good question, AlanMexicali! I fell in love with this country and its people sometime back in the sixties when I first set foot on it and have been traveling and exploring it ever since until I could finally have enough steady income to live here full-time. The fact that I choose to live in an area that has what is supposed to be the second best climate in the world and the economy of this country makes it possible for me to have a better lifestyle than if I was still in California or anywhere in the US is a perk. Not the reason I am here.

Unfortunately, I'd say something like 90/95% of the foreigners around the area where I live are only here because it's 'cheap and warm'. Economic refugees, and I feel for their plight, but I avoid them like the plague. Many are angry and arrogant, most never learn even a conversational level of the language and resent that Mexicans don't speak their language, nor do many of them involve themselves in the Mexican culture. They embarrass me.

Currently, there is a small group of foreigners involved in a "fight" with the padre of the pueblo I live in and are asking for a human rights lawyer to get involved - for what I do not know. However, I am beginning to be asked by my Mexican neighbors if I am involved in this or "molestado" by the padre too. sigh

Agree with PieGrande: "If you cannot make friends with the Mexican people, you will not be happy in Mexico." I'd take it a step further and say. . .if you have no intention of making friends with the Mexican people - please, don't come!
 

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Fighting with a Catholic priest in a nation where 90% of the population believe, as a matter of faith, that the priest represents God on the planet? Oh, man, I love it. This ought to be fun. Keep us posted. :D :D

As expats, we are guests in Mexico. We must conduct ourselves with the manners expected from honored guests.
 

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I KNOW, PieGrande! What are they thinking? Just another ****** group for me to keep a lengthy distance from.

I'm still waiting to hear what their issue is about. Perhaps it's justifiable as in they have proof of child molestation, or something like that. . .but, probably not.

I will keep you posted.
 

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It is also possible something completely different is involved. For example, in many Mexican communities, the church fires off a large number of aerial bombs before mass, including at times midnight, and 4 am.

And, also in some communities the church has large loud speakers and every word of the Mass is broadcast all over town, also at midnight or 4 am, if relevant.

In my town, several years ago, someone, a local, not me, wrote an anonymous letter to the priest. He thought it over, and turned off the public address system during sleeping hours, but they still fire the aerial bombs before Mass.

People from a culture where there is extreme separation of church and state might well imagine they could force the aerial bombs to be stopped as well, since in the US this would be forcing attention to a religion. :D

Who can say? Do let us know as you find out.

Let me add I am in the enviable position of being the only North American in a 750 square mile area (not counting any babies who were born NOB, of course.) I do wish the other folks would move. :D

But, this means my reputation is based solely on my own behavior, and not by behavior of other people who might have totally different personalities.
 

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Last year we posted extensively on the Ugly American syndrome - something that this lawsuit BS is an example of. I have the distinction of being an New Yorker, which in foreign parlance prejudice makes me twice as obnoxious as just a USAer. (even in the USA!)

We have also posted at length about being a guest is anothers home and how it is the responsibility of the guest to live by the rules and customs they have chosen (a very important point) to live in.

In a vast generalization - I may conclude that those most guilty of being not good guests have never (or hardly ever) lived in a situation where they were not the dominant force, the majority, the accepted ones. I would think these are the people who have it the hardest and in fighting "the system" give those who know their manners a bad reputation.

On another thread someone said, "If you don't like it in Mexico, why did you move here?" As Alan says, if it was only for the money and the climate, those are the wrong reason and soon those reasons will disappear.

Meanwhile, by your actions you must show your hosts that you are not like "those people". Remember the lesson we learned as children: You are judged by the company you keep.
 

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In a vast generalization - I may conclude that those most guilty of being not good guests have never (or hardly ever) lived in a situation where they were not the dominant force, the majority, the accepted ones. I would think these are the people who have it the hardest and in fighting "the system" give those who know their manners a bad reputation.
To add to your generalization, I would say that the bad guests have probably never done much traveling outside their own country. And most likely they grew up learning and then taking as a given that they lived in "the best country in the world". No wonder they have problems adjusting to life in Mexico!
 

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To add to your generalization, I would say that the bad guests have probably never done much traveling outside their own country. And most likely they grew up learning and then taking as a given that they lived in "the best country in the world". No wonder they have problems adjusting to life in Mexico!
I would agree 100%. Many of my compatriots love their country like children love their parents; they refuse to see any of its flaws, and, as a result, have a real challenge implementing or accepting needed improvements.

30% of US adults have passports, and that's a jump from just a few years ago; then it was only 18%. But the need for a passport, now, to travel to Mexico and Canada has caused an increase.

I have no issue with people who haven't traveled internationally, I hadn't left this continent till 10 years ago.

It's the ones described by Jon, who don't want to travel, because they think there's nothing worth seeing outside their own borders, who find living as a minority, or in a culture they have no desire to learn, most difficult.
 

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Well, I still don't know exactly what the 'beef' is, but what I'm hearing is the priest is using a loudspeaker to say mass or for prayers and it's probably early in the morning. I live only a few blocks from the church and I cannot hear it.

Vamos a ver.
 

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As far as the thoughts of people NOB, I believe a great many NOB'ers do come here initially with ideas of a Mexico where you can live like royalty for a few pesos a month. Rumors abound of "someone I know" who gets a place on the beach, complete with a driver, food, cook, housekeeper, etc. for ~300 USD per month. Not realistic, I know, but neither is the 100 mpg carburetor, and those rumors still persist. I'm not here for the economy, nor the weather, and will assume that you have other reasons also, but I have yet to make a trip north and not be quizzed on some aspect of how cheap things are SOB.
Amongst our expat family here, we could well be our own worst enemy in perpetuating this line of thinking, and maybe it is not that far off base. Based on various historical threads, the economy is referenced as being a prime reason for the relocation of a great many expats, maybe this fuels the jump to this logic. If you quizzed 10 expats on why Mexico, I suspect the economy would show up on more lists than any other reason, maybe not at the top of their list, but somewhere near the top.
As to your philosophical question on why some humans feel that their way is obviously the only way, there is no doubt that I will die before that one is decided.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Nob

As far as the thoughts of people NOB, I believe a great many NOB'ers do come here initially with ideas of a Mexico where you can live like royalty for a few pesos a month. Rumors abound of "someone I know" who gets a place on the beach, complete with a driver, food, cook, housekeeper, etc. for ~300 USD per month. Not realistic, I know, but neither is the 100 mpg carburetor, and those rumors still persist. I'm not here for the economy, nor the weather, and will assume that you have other reasons also, but I have yet to make a trip north and not be quizzed on some aspect of how cheap things are SOB.
Amongst our expat family here, we could well be our own worst enemy in perpetuating this line of thinking, and maybe it is not that far off base. Based on various historical threads, the economy is referenced as being a prime reason for the relocation of a great many expats, maybe this fuels the jump to this logic. If you quizzed 10 expats on why Mexico, I suspect the economy would show up on more lists than any other reason, maybe not at the top of their list, but somewhere near the top.
As to your philosophical question on why some humans feel that their way is obviously the only way, there is no doubt that I will die before that one is decided.
I have to agree with what you feel is relevant to my questions. I have had people NOB who are scared to even go to TJ that live in San Diego tell me to stop comparing Mexico's prices to San Diego prices years ago and now just chat about specific details about my life SOB, not generalizations. If anyone tells me Mexico is too dangerous to visit I simply switch the subject. My best friends borrow my house in Mexicali all the time. Their wives need manicures/pedicures/hair done and they go to restaurants, rodeos, lowrider shows, bull fights and the annual feria.
 

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I have been traveling to Puerto Vallarta since my last divorce, approx. 10 years. I do hope to retire down there in the future, it truly is paradise. PV has a very large expat population, lots of Canadians. Lots of expats who are sucessfull business owners as well, several that are well meaning and make charitable controbutions to the community. As with any tropical paradise, it also attracts people who will exploit their adopted town. This is paticularly true in Pto Vallarta, where two old ex pat men, one American, one Englishman, have suceeded in alienating the locals due to their self imposed entitlement over the town.
 

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This is paticularly true in Pto Vallarta, where two old ex pat men, one American, one Englishman, have suceeded in alienating the locals due to their self imposed entitlement over the town.
I don't know where you gained these impressions. There is no special imposed entitlement here in PV. There are many different types in town but the establishment who are in control are all Mexican. And most of them know that making gringos feel welcome is key to their continued success.
 

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Come on, Keith!? How long you been living there? You know exactly who I am speaking of. Guys like that give other expats down there a real bad name.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
PV

I don't know where you gained these impressions. There is no special imposed entitlement here in PV. There are many different types in town but the establishment who are in control are all Mexican. And most of them know that making gringos feel welcome is key to their continued success.
An ex fellow worker of mine in San Diego went to PV twice in a row to stay with his wife's relatives 6 years ago. He has many in laws and they told him there is a growing resentment because of so many expats buying into their neighborhoods and driving the price of a large 3 bedroom newer block house which before cost about $85.000 US to double about $160,000 US and their children were getting shafted when ready to buy.

To say there is no influence is a bit naive and to say all there are happy except possibly the hospitality service people. Also more business are owned by expats where there is service to tourists now. Some bars/restaurants and fishing trip boats in Zona Marina etc.

When we went to PV 2 times for New Years lately everyone was more than friendly. The high security is normal now at all condos and hotels I am told.
 

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Divert to PV

While the PV discussion is a bit off topic, I'd like to add my two cents. When we visited PV the first time two years ago, we fell in love. We stayed in our friends condo in Marina Vallarta - where a three BR could have sold for $400K USD a few years ago, gated, guarded, swimming pool - you get the idea.

We used his car and the first stop we made was a car wash, then the local supermarket, drove into town, went to Soriana, had to use Pemex, IOW we felt as if we really weren't like the tourists. We needed to learn how to park the car, walk around and get lost. And with all that, having to learn to live there, not being hotel/restaurant catered to there, we fell in love with PV, and decided that is where we were going to retire.

After that trip, I got involved on this board and someone suggested we had set our sights too narrow and we should look at Lake Chapala. So on our next trip we did. For us, all ideas of PV went away - for all the reasons we have discussed and discussed. In PV, at we did not find a community, we found a small city of people. We walked on the Malecon, and it could just have well have been in Ocean City Maryland, or Miami Beach Florida. The culture was all wrong...it was not like the Soriana or the Pemex or the car wash. After our bus trip to Ajijic and stay last year and after being showed around by a RE agent, we came back to PV for three days, and we immediately noticed the difference.

Now there are different strokes for different folks and those who like the PV way are just as entitled to their opinion - mine is not the final word - and they should live and be happy there. For me, it is not where I want to live. Yes, I am sure you in Puebla, D.F., Gaud, Baja Sur and all think your place is the best - and you should! Thank Heaven we are not all the same

Is PV more of a ****** place? In my opinion, yes, but that is their industry - tourism, cruise ships, expensive condos, 1st class hotels are its mainstay and makes it more ****** than even Lakeside. And exploiting that industry for the good of its citizens is not wrong. It is just not where I want to live; visit? maybe to go to the beach, but not to live - too big, too fast, too impersonal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
PV

While the PV discussion is a bit off topic, I'd like to add my two cents. When we visited PV the first time two years ago, we fell in love. We stayed in our friends condo in Marina Vallarta - where a three BR could have sold for $400K USD a few years ago, gated, guarded, swimming pool - you get the idea.

We used his car and the first stop we made was a car wash, then the local supermarket, drove into town, went to Soriana, had to use Pemex, IOW we felt as if we really weren't like the tourists. We needed to learn how to park the car, walk around and get lost. And with all that, having to learn to live there, not being hotel/restaurant catered to there, we fell in love with PV, and decided that is where we were going to retire.

After that trip, I got involved on this board and someone suggested we had set our sights too narrow and we should look at Lake Chapala. So on our next trip we did. For us, all ideas of PV went away - for all the reasons we have discussed and discussed. In PV, at we did not find a community, we found a small city of people. We walked on the Malecon, and it could just have well have been in Ocean City Maryland, or Miami Beach Florida. The culture was all wrong...it was not like the Soriana or the Pemex or the car wash. After our bus trip to Ajijic and stay last year and after being showed around by a RE agent, we came back to PV for three days, and we immediately noticed the difference.

Now there are different strokes for different folks and those who like the PV way are just as entitled to their opinion - mine is not the final word - and they should live and be happy there. For me, it is not where I want to live. Yes, I am sure you in Puebla, D.F., Gaud, Baja Sur and all think your place is the best - and you should! Thank Heaven we are not all the same

Is PV more of a ****** place? In my opinion, yes, but that is their industry - tourism, cruise ships, expensive condos, 1st class hotels are its mainstay and makes it more ****** than even Lakeside. And exploiting that industry for the good of its citizens is not wrong. It is just not where I want to live; visit? maybe to go to the beach, but not to live - too big, too fast, too impersonal.

It is on topic and very informative. PV is one of the expats and snowbirds most sought after refuge. No one really needs to speak Spanish except 10 or so phrases and can feel right at home in most bars and restaurants. Bucerias beach is a great place to drink, snack, swim and hang out for relatively little money, compared to the beaches in front of the hotels and condos there and many can always find English speaking people to chat with. The pools in the condos we stayed at are very friendly and everyone chats in English. You can buy a day pass for the Hyatt a short walk from the marina for $25.00 pesos and hang out on the beach or pool there. The high security thing is all over the place but not in Iztapa for some reason. You can go into any hotel from the beach to eat, you just can't use the pool area, and most do not have anything from stopping you from walking in off the street side like PV.
 
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