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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone,

My fiance and I have decided to buy a 1 bedroom or a studio apartment in Paris. I have been to Paris twice and my fiance has been once and we both love Paris :) We are going back again next year to check out apartments. We normally stay in 6th and 5th arrondissements. But I found out that prices for apartments within those areas are very expensive.

We also like the 3rd, 4th, 18th, 1st, 2nd, 9th and 8th arrondissements.

Requirements:

Size: 20-30 sqm
Price: 190-280k euro (prepared to renovate for extra 10-20k)
Style: 16th-19th century haussmanian apartments with high ceiling, big windows, a balcony, fireplace.
Close to metro, shops and safe.

Do you have any suggestions?

I'd love to hear from you.

Thank you.
 

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Wow! Not a single reply, let alone one with some inside knowledge to impart. I'll contribute what little we know.

We are also looking for an apartment to buy, but do not yet know the details of the process. We have talked to people who have done it, but they were EU citizens. We have not yet talked to an agent.

I think we know two things: (1) From our experience, logic-immo<dot>com is the largest collection of listings. (2) We have been told that, if foreign, you almost *have* to be a cash buyer.

Ok, not much, but all we know so far.

Bon courage!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi xmeyer,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I've done a bit of research. For foreigners buying an apartment in France need to have a 20% deposit in cash.

When are you planning to buy?
 

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French immobliers seem to value personal contact - they are not really up to internet dealing.

Therefore, I suggest that you select a quartier, stay there for a few days at least, and visit the local agents. You can also walk around the area at all times of the day and night to see if the envrironment suits you. These things are very personal.

DejW
 

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DejW,

Here, one is expected to contact the agent that lists an apartment of interest? So if we find 3 apartments on an aggregation site, each listed by a different agent, we should contact all 3? This feels odd because in the US, that's a no-no, one works with 1 agent, who shows one all the properties one is interested in, regardless of what agency/broker actually listed them in the first place. (The listing and "buyer's" brokers then split the fees, of course.)

Thanks.
 

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There is no fee-splitting arrangement here. The agent who shows you the place is the one you pay if you wind up buying it. (It's really a very different system from the US.) If you accidentally let two different agents show you the same place and you wind up buying it, you owe both agents the fees.

It's not nearly as common here for an agent to have an exclusive on a property - except perhaps in the first couple months after a property is listed. Once it's "known" that the property is on the market, any and all agents can (and will) show it if they think it meets a client's requirements.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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Hi

I wasn't trying to be rude or difficult - I'm sorry if you saw it like that. I apologise.

First, I have no knowledge of the US methods and culture of property deals in the US.

Second, I've done 5 property deals in France and both the methods and culture are different from what I'm used to in the UK.

Living in France always illustrates that things that you knew "back home" don't work here!

Good luck.

DejW

DejW,

Here, one is expected to contact the agent that lists an apartment of interest? So if we find 3 apartments on an aggregation site, each listed by a different agent, we should contact all 3? This feels odd because in the US, that's a no-no, one works with 1 agent, who shows one all the properties one is interested in, regardless of what agency/broker actually listed them in the first place. (The listing and "buyer's" brokers then split the fees, of course.)

Thanks.
 

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DejW,
Oh dear, not sure what I said that made you think I thought your post was rude or difficult, but I did not think so. Quite the contrary, and I was just trying to elicit more detail because I want to approach agents correctly.

Thanks.
 

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Bev,

Dealing with agents here seems similar to what one does in the US as far as who you work with. What I understand you saying is that it is common to find one (1) agent to work with and that agent will show you any and all listings of interest. And if one finds a listing on one's own, on the web or wherever, one should simply tell the agent one is working with about it and they will set up the showing, etc., as opposed to contacting the listing agent for that property.

Do I have this right?

Thanks.
 

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Hello everyone,

My fiance and I have decided to buy a 1 bedroom or a studio apartment in Paris. I have been to Paris twice and my fiance has been once and we both love Paris :) We are going back again next year to check out apartments. We normally stay in 6th and 5th arrondissements. But I found out that prices for apartments within those areas are very expensive.

We also like the 3rd, 4th, 18th, 1st, 2nd, 9th and 8th arrondissements.

Requirements:

Size: 20-30 sqm
Price: 190-280k euro (prepared to renovate for extra 10-20k)
Style: 16th-19th century haussmanian apartments with high ceiling, big windows, a balcony, fireplace.
Close to metro, shops and safe.

Do you have any suggestions?

I'd love to hear from you.

Thank you.
The process is different. Each country is different.
First, you need to decide and be very clear what your budget is, and then remember fees and vat, etc.
Second, decide how you will be using your new apartment....permanent home, personal holiday use, holiday rental to others?
Inheriatnce laws in France is different and you must learn what they are. You will need expert advice, which you will pay for. How will you hold title?
Do either of you have children...together or with others?
Taking time to research will save you mis-steps, and dollars.
I have been to Paris every year for the last twenty years, and you had good advice about spending time in each area you have chosen. Daytime can and may be different, noise, amount of people...
If you stay in the 'old' area, it will be much more expensive, and also smaller. Outside areas are less so, but not much.
I have a friend who bought a large studio in the 2nd ari. and he paid dearly, however, he divided the living space with french doors, and voila...he has a one bedroom.
He decided on Paris, because he loved it, and he realized he would never lose his investment. It can be rented to help with expenses.
I love Paris in the springtime...when it drizzles....Everyone loves Paris.
 

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Bev,

Dealing with agents here seems similar to what one does in the US as far as who you work with. What I understand you saying is that it is common to find one (1) agent to work with and that agent will show you any and all listings of interest. And if one finds a listing on one's own, on the web or wherever, one should simply tell the agent one is working with about it and they will set up the showing, etc., as opposed to contacting the listing agent for that property.

Do I have this right?

Thanks.
Not really. First of all, there is no multi-listing or common listing service in France like back in the US. You can rely on a single agent if you choose, but s/he will show you only those properties s/he is aware of, and on which s/he can make his or her fee.

If you see an ad for a property you are interested in, you'll have to visit the agent who has listed the property and sign the appropriate paperwork (i.e. promising to pay the fee should you buy the property) before they will give you any clue as to the exact location of the place. You can ask another agent you are working with, but they may or may not have the address.

If the property has an exclusive listing, you can only go through the agency that placed the ad. Depends a bit on the area and how recently the property has come on the market as to whether it's likely to have an "exclusive" or not.

Oh, and just be aware that agents do not handle all the legal aspects of the sale like they do in the US. The legal side of things goes through a notaire (a specialized property lawyer), who also must be paid.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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logic-immo has over a million listings -- over 8000 in Paris. This seems like a lot, but I can't figure any way to know what percentage of the market this represents. It is not too hard to find listings on individual immobilier websites that are not on logic-immo.
 

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There simply is no centralized multi-listing here in France. Another place to look is PAP IMMOBILIER - Annonces immobilières | De Particulier à Particulier - PAP which is an advertising journal for owner-listed properties (both to buy and to rent). There is at least one other owner-listing newspaper, the name of which escapes me at the moment. You may also want to take a look at FUSAC, Fusac | The Multilingual Multicultural Marketplace which has traditionally been the preferred want ad listing for anglophones in Paris.

The agents who list properties online are trying to get you into their agency to see what other properties they can show you (and charge you the fee for). The owners who list their property directly are simply trying to avoid having to deal with agents at all. There really isn't any short cut.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
xmeyer said:
logic-immo has over a million listings -- over 8000 in Paris. This seems like a lot, but I can't figure any way to know what percentage of the market this represents. It is not too hard to find listings on individual immobilier websites that are not on logic-immo.
Have you tried searching on lodgis.com? Lots of listings there too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
expatgal said:
The process is different. Each country is different. First, you need to decide and be very clear what your budget is, and then remember fees and vat, etc. Second, decide how you will be using your new apartment....permanent home, personal holiday use, holiday rental to others? Inheriatnce laws in France is different and you must learn what they are. You will need expert advice, which you will pay for. How will you hold title? Do either of you have children...together or with others? Taking time to research will save you mis-steps, and dollars. I have been to Paris every year for the last twenty years, and you had good advice about spending time in each area you have chosen. Daytime can and may be different, noise, amount of people... If you stay in the 'old' area, it will be much more expensive, and also smaller. Outside areas are less so, but not much. I have a friend who bought a large studio in the 2nd ari. and he paid dearly, however, he divided the living space with french doors, and voila...he has a one bedroom. He decided on Paris, because he loved it, and he realized he would never lose his investment. It can be rented to help with expenses. I love Paris in the springtime...when it drizzles....Everyone loves Paris.
Hi expat gal,

Yes, the whole idea of going back to Paris in 2014 is to stay for a bit longer so we could stay day and night in those arrondissements and we would obviously walk around the area we want to live in :)

I heard the 2nd and 3rd aren't so pricey :). A spacious studio would be nice to convert it into a 1 bedroom just like what your friend did. How much did he pay for it?

:)
 

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Hi expat gal,

"Yes, the whole idea of going back to Paris in 2014 is to stay for a bit longer so we could stay day and night in those arrondissements and we would obviously walk around the area we want to live in

I heard the 2nd and 3rd aren't so pricey . A spacious studio would be nice to convert it into a 1 bedroom just like what your friend did. How much did he pay for it? "

It's been close to 10 years since he bought, and prices have increased. I remember he mentioned he wasn't able to get a mortgage, (something you need to thik about), as he wasn't a resident of France he didn't qualify. He begged borrowed and stole;)
If I remember correctly, he paid close to 300k euros, and it was close to the Louvre. That should give you an idea, he has since moved and received residency. He has also purchased two more studios this past year. I didn't ask what he paid for the last two.
Have you thought of purchasing with more than one partner? There are agencies and websites which specialize in such. The idea is to share the costs, since most won't be living there permamnently. It's not a time share. For US citizens you can hold the property in an LLC, BUT, you cannot rent it out, or use it for income, something to do with the France side of taxes.
You may want to check it out.
Good fortune to you.
 

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Hello Francophilebella and Xmeyer,
I hope I have reached you in time to save you stress. I have friends who work in real estate here and are English speaking they are not in your area but they have put together an site that explains French real estate terminology in English. Valulable where ever you live in France It is lot more than a dictionary, it explains the process and more and give you market news. It is not an advertising portal more an educational site. I will note that I have been reading on the site and BevDeforges with all due respect is incorrect in the comment that "there is no fee splitting arrangement". Agencies do split fees once their is agreement before the agencies before hand, what they call a collaboration in French. Check out the site when you have time.
It is www esreafrance com
Good luck
Dan
 

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Hello, I suggest you to choose the apartment that generates money, for example with City Getaway they provide rental apartment service, you can do the same for the apartment you'll going to buy in Paris, choose wisely.
 

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Central is best

How cool. Paris is fab.

I always think there's no point buying a place miles out in a suburb as this will not be the same as the buzz you got from visiting.

I would suggest you buy in the centre of town. I will cost more, but it will also save you loads on travelling costs year round. It also makes walking around Paris more fun and doable.

Let us know where you buy when you're done.

Bon courage.

M
 
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