[rizla.riz]

Hi

I am currently working in London and thinking of selling up and moving to Limoges area and property is relatively cheap... I would still work for the London company and commute via flights every week only need to be I the office 2 days a week 1 night so cost wont be that much apart from Flights. What l wanted to ask was how does the taxation work from someone living permanently in France but working full time in UK. Also with Brexit happening would tax increase for non French people ?

 

[95995]

Hi

I am currently working in London and thinking of selling up and moving to Limoges area and property is relatively cheap... I would still work for the London company and commute via flights every week only need to be I the office 2 days a week 1 night so cost wont be that much apart from Flights. What l wanted to ask was how does the taxation work from someone living permanently in France but working full time in UK. Also with Brexit happening would tax increase for non French people ?

I'll take a leap and risk answering your last question - I would be extremely surprised if tax would increase for non-French people. Apart from the fact that there is currently no indication whatsoever of such a possibility, it would be difficult to introduce and administer. It would also go against the concept of equality and arguably amount to discrimination. Then there is the matter of permanent residence vs. temporary residence. Not to mention that Macron has been encouraging certain professionals to relocate to France.

 

[rizla.riz]

thanks

Thanks for the info, yes just worried about the taxation, l am currently living in West Yorkshire.. Is there many expats living in the Haute-Vienne region (anyone out there). Me and my misses are in our early 30's no kids. Was also concerned about the headscarf rule as we a Muslim couple and wife wears just the headscarf and not the full ninja suit not sure how French people we take a Muslim couple moving to the sticks...lol..

 

[EuroTrash]

"Frontier workers" (which is what you would be classed as if you live in one country and work in another) are one of the points on which agreement hasn't yet been reached in the Brexit negotiations. The situation is currently summed up as "UK will consider offering reciprocal arrangements". This would make a difference to you because if the UK does keep to the current EU arrangements, it will fund your healthcare both in the UK and in France. If reciprocal arrangements are not agreed then the UK likely won't fund your healthcare in France, and you could end up paying quite a lot to join the French health system, assuming that is an option. So personally I would keep an eye on how the negotiations go before committing yourself.
Also, if your wife doesn't speak much French (you don't say if she does or she doesn't) consider whether she might find life lonely while you're away. Living in the sticks not seeing many people and not being able to chat to most of those you do see, doesn't suit everyone.
Give my love to West Yorkshire, I spent many happy years there and some not quite so happy...

 

[EuroTrash]

Actually, looking at it again, it looks as if the EU is only prepared to protect the rights of frontier workers who already have that status as of the date of withdrawal - so if that's the case, you would need to move fast if you want healthcare rights. It's a difficult one because the situation you're considering is so dependent on EU workers' rights agreements, which have all gone into in the melting pot. Timing could be crucial. You really do need a crystal ball.

 

[DejW]

Two aspects.....

If you are really living in France you need to sort out health care...I'm no expert, but you can't really live in France and pop back to the UK if you feel ill. Others here can help more in this area.

Second...As there are bigots everywhere, there is a prejudice against Arabs/Muslims in France. Yes, yes I know the difference between the two, but the bigots don't. Certainly there are a lot of women in headscarves living in and around Rouen, and they don't seem to have much of a problem....but I'm not close to the situation. To be honest, unless your French (both of you) is really good, you may have problems with the sadly unavoidable prejudices.


Have you considered "why France"? It's not always easy being an expat...and do you want to live in an expat bubble? There's nothing wrong with that, but you need to think it through. What will you do/experience in France that you won't where you live now, or by moving to say Wales?

How about a LONG holiday in your chosen area to see if you really like it and if you "fit in". On a short holiday you stay in tourist mode and don't see much of the real France.

I know a Yorkshire expat couple and they don't seem to have any problems despite a rock hard Yorkshire accent. (you can tell a Yorkshireman anywhere, but you can't tell him anything...eeeee by gum) <grin> <grin>. Yorkshire, that's north of the M25?...now that's prejudice!

Anyway, good luck...DejW

 

[Bevdeforges]

OK, let me jump in here to completely muddy the waters a bit. (Trust me, I'm an accountant.... <ggg>)

One issue you'll run up against with your plan is that the French law on determining your "tax residence" (i.e. who you owe your income taxes to, among other things) are fairly simple. There are three conditions, and if you meet any one of them, you are "tax resident" as far as the French Fisc is concerned.

The rules and regulations on UK tax residence apparently run to 100 pages or so and get tricky because there are several designations based on the nature of your presence in the UK during the tax year.

On top of all this, there is a tax treaty between France and the UK intended to eliminate (or at least minimize) "double taxation" - but given the two very different systems, it doesn't always work perfectly and there is the little matter of social insurances vs. cotisations - which you pay and whether that entitles you to services in the "other" country.

If your primary residence is in France (and that includes where your family lives and where you return to on a regular basis and keep most of your stuff), then the French consider you tax resident in France. That means they expect your employer to kick in to the French cotisation system as well as for you to pay income taxes in France. Many, if not most UK employers do NOT want to have to pay French cotisations and may well insist on you remaining on the UK payroll. And things get really complicated from that point on.

There is also the French legal concept that married couples MUST maintain a residence in common (in part because income taxes are done on a household basis - at least for married folks) - so in theory, you can't be tax resident in the UK, while the wife and family lives in France.

This is a really tricky area. We've had folks through here who say they had the UK tax office tell them that they should pay their taxes in the UK, and then get hit up by the French Fisc for taxes based on their French residence status. Before you attempt something like this, you need to make sure that your employer is willing to "do the right thing" (whatever that is) and to work with both the French and UK tax authorities to find a solution.

And then there is Brexit. At that point, all bets are off - however the President of Malta recently said on TV that he is getting the feeling that Brexit may never happen anyhow.
Cheers,
Bev

 

[95995]

There are quite a number of Brits living in the Limoges area, however i suspect they are mostly retirees and therefore possibly not well placed to answer the queries.

There are two big issues (potentially very, very big issues). Firstly, Brexit (how things might work, eg.whether there will be a temporary EEA style agreement, what the applicable date will be for rights of those Brits in the EU, and vice versa, of course - these are all unknowns, but there may well be a range of unknown unknowns). Secondly, Brexit or not, exchange rates are an unknown for all expats living in France whose revenue is derived elsewhere and this can be a major risk. Bear in mind, though, that as things currently stand you need to have lived in France for 5 years in order to gain permanent residence.

 

[ccm47]

Have you tried long distance commuting? It is rarely as easy as it seems; I should know I have the Tshirt from years back!
Limoges airport would seem to be the one which you would use, but the downloadable timetable runs out in October so it isn't too helpful as its impossible to view at the moment the frequency of winter flights; and it is these which determine the practicalities for commuters using scheduled airlines.
What I could see was that there are no really early morning flights into London, so you would not get to work before lunchtime, and you would probably need to leave mid-afternoon if you are to get back the next day.
Security checks are currently taking longer so last minute arrivals at the airport are impossible now. Add in inevitable plane problems, weather delays (fog in London or heavy snow in the Limousin), awkward passengers, and public transport problems in the UK and your timetable goes horribly awry. If you want stress all of these are good starters for 10. You must be aware that these things do occur on a regular basis.
The only way these things work is if people fly the day before going into the office and then get a really late flight back or go the following day.

 

[rizla.riz]

Thanks to everyone who replied some good information for me to consider. Both me and my wife don’t speak French but will be taking French lessons before we decided to move. And the lonely aspect if my wife misses civilization too much London will only be a flight away lol And yes will have to keep a track of the Brexit negotiation which is a worry currently. Limoges area is not confirmed but as we have been there couple of times we have liked the area and the houses prices are very cheap compared to London were l was thinking of moving originally but couldn’t afford a 2 bed flat for £300,000 yes those are the prices these days. Yes might consider a long holiday as before we only come for couple of days and ppl in seem quite nice but then again didn’t interact that much apart from the place we were staying. Are there any ppl out there currently working in London and living in France ?
Dejw – Reason l want to move to France is the property is very cheap and would want to set up my own homestead get about 10 acres of land have my owe animals grow my own food and that l defi cant do in the UK and even Wales the prices are expensive but the weather isn’t the best that was also a pull to France as the weather is very good.
Bevdeforges – Surely if l am not working in France why would l pay tax there, I will be paying the Taxe fonciere and the Taxe d’habitation for the property I understand l will have to use the health system but probably go the private route unless the UK still pay expats after Brexit via the S1 form. Do l have to declare l am working in the UK…lol And my company wouldn’t go the route via paying the France something as l already asked this. But surly the double Taxation treaty would kick in.
Ccm47 – Yes l am currently be doing long distance commuting l have to go weekly to London from Yorkshire which roughly takes my 5 hours down and 5 hours back that’s why l thou moving to France might shorten my travel time and be cheaper living as l wanted to move to London but can’t afford it. And yes l know public transport isn’t always reliable so l would probably travel on the Sunday and go back on a Tuesday or Wednesday.

 

[Bevdeforges]

Bevdeforges – Surely if l am not working in France why would l pay tax there, I will be paying the Taxe fonciere and the Taxe d’habitation for the property I understand l will have to use the health system but probably go the private route unless the UK still pay expats after Brexit via the S1 form. Do l have to declare l am working in the UK…lol And my company wouldn’t go the route via paying the France something as l already asked this. But surly the double Taxation treaty would kick in.
.

Basically, the French law considers you tax resident in France if you maintain your primary residence in France. Primary residence includes where your family lives. If your family is living in France and you are living there with them, it doesn't matter where you work - and particularly if you are doing any sort of "telecommuting" you are considered to be working in France if you are doing anything for which you are being paid while you are physically present in France.

There is even a special office for foreign employers to pay in their cotisation/social insurances for employees working in France if the employer has no French presence. The S1 form has not been valid for anyone other than pensioners for several years now. And as I understand it, you aren't eligible for NHS coverage unless you are resident in the UK, which neither you nor your family will be. However, I believe your UK employer would still be withholding UK social insurances from your pay.

The double taxation treaty avoids the worst of the double taxation but it does not give you a choice in where you pay your income tax. You may want to take a look at the treaty to see how it defines who pays tax where and what relief measures there are on either side.
Cheers,
Bev

 

[Lydi]

I can't advise you on tax. I've lived and worked in France for a (very) long time and have always paid into the French system, but I can give you a little information about the region you mentioned.

There are lots of Brits in Haute Vienne (estimation 7,500 for the region) especially the south west - St Mathieu - Rochechouart, not far from the airport - and an enclave in the north of the département - around Bellac - Magnac-Laval - Le Dorat. There aren't so many in our area - in the east of the region.
You are right, there are some very cheap properties here (especially if you avoid buying from "English" estate agents). However, cheap is often synonymous with remote. As already said, a long stay in your favourite spot will reduce chances of future grief. Check out distances for shopping, doctors, ... before committing yourself. Also beware of "zones blanches".

If your wife wears a headscarf, she may get some "looks" out in the sticks as you say, but nothing more than that. There are some Muslim communities in the area, mainly Turkish.

Bon courage !

 

[rizla.riz]

Hi

Thanks for your reply what do you mean when you say "zones blanches" tried to google the word but all the sites come in French.

 

[Lydi]

A "zone blanche" is an area with no mobile signal and no (or poor) internet coverage.
Would you call that a "dead zone"?