[Starla]

Hi again,

I have been trying to file for an extension today so that I can claim the Physical Presence Test and have WELL confused myself with all of the publications and forms that I've been reading. I would like to ask a list of questions and hopefully someone can answer them and help me along here.

First things first...how accurate does the form 4868 need to be?? I started to fill that out which meant I had to use 1040 as a worksheet....which meant I needed to complete form 2555, too. After going through all three forms (it is now four hours later) I'm about to scream.

I have lived in the UK since Sept 2009 and I started working on Nov 30 2009 for a UK company.

FORM 2555

1a. Line 38 of section VII asks me to enter the number of days in my qualifying period that fall within my 2009 tax year. Does this mean I only enter the number of days from 2009 that I was in the UK? Or do I have to enter the number of days starting from my first day here until the final day that I qualify for physical presence (which will be in October 2010)?

1b. If I claim the dates from Sept 2009 until Oct 2010, does that mean for line 19 of FORM 2555 I should claim my salary for that entire time period, as well?

1c. In line 19 should I only claim my foreign salary from the pay I received in 2009?

FORM 1040

1. Am I only to claim worldwide income for 2009 or do I need to include my qualifying time for physical presence as well (Sep 2009-Oct 2010)?

I am going to post this now but if I come up with more questions, I will reply to this thread.

Thank you to anyone who can help.

 

[Bevdeforges]

OK, you're definitely overthinking this one. :hand: And actually, you may be filing the wrong extension form.

You should be filing a form 2350, which is specifically made for those requesting an extension to meet the overseas tests. (Simpler form - more purpose driven!)

1a. Line 38 of section VII asks me to enter the number of days in my qualifying period that fall within my 2009 tax year. Does this mean I only enter the number of days from 2009 that I was in the UK? Or do I have to enter the number of days starting from my first day here until the final day that I qualify for physical presence (which will be in October 2010)?

US tax forms are strictly calendar basis. You include only the number of days in 2009 that you were in the UK.

1b. If I claim the dates from Sept 2009 until Oct 2010, does that mean for line 19 of FORM 2555 I should claim my salary for that entire time period, as well?

Again - no. Indicate only your salary to December 31st 2009. This is the 2009 tax return, after all.

1c. In line 19 should I only claim my foreign salary from the pay I received in 2009?

Yes.

FORM 1040

1. Am I only to claim worldwide income for 2009 or do I need to include my qualifying time for physical presence as well (Sep 2009-Oct 2010)?

This filing covers only your 2009 income. Do the form 2555 first. Starting at line 19, you follow the instructions quite literally all the way through the second sheet of the form. Part VII of the form tells you how to apportion your allowable exclusion for the fact that you weren't resident overseas for the full 2009 tax year. When you get to line 45, it tells you where on the form 1040 to enter the result of your calculations.

What you want to do when you file for your extension is to tell them that your reason is that you expect to qualify under the physical presence test for the overseas earned income exclusion on [whatever date]. You will still owe taxes on any income you earned in the US up until your departure for the UK, so if your withholding doesn't cover what you owe, you want to make an estimated payment to cover that (i.e. so you won't owe interest on the amount when you file your final return for 2009).

The numbers on the request for extension don't have to be all that accurate - but it's in your best interests to overshoot a bit (i.e. round up) if there is any danger of your having to pay tax. You'll get it refunded if you've overpaid. If your US withholding is going to cover what you owe, you're all set.
Cheers,
Bev

 

[peppera-ann-]

OK, you're definitely overthinking this one. :hand: And actually, you may be filing the wrong extension form.

You should be filing a form 2350, which is specifically made for those requesting an extension to meet the overseas tests. (Simpler form - more purpose driven!)



US tax forms are strictly calendar basis. You include only the number of days in 2009 that you were in the UK.



Again - no. Indicate only your salary to December 31st 2009. This is the 2009 tax return, after all.



Yes.



This filing covers only your 2009 income. Do the form 2555 first. Starting at line 19, you follow the instructions quite literally all the way through the second sheet of the form. Part VII of the form tells you how to apportion your allowable exclusion for the fact that you weren't resident overseas for the full 2009 tax year. When you get to line 45, it tells you where on the form 1040 to enter the result of your calculations.

What you want to do when you file for your extension is to tell them that your reason is that you expect to qualify under the physical presence test for the overseas earned income exclusion on [whatever date]. You will still owe taxes on any income you earned in the US up until your departure for the UK, so if your withholding doesn't cover what you owe, you want to make an estimated payment to cover that (i.e. so you won't owe interest on the amount when you file your final return for 2009).

The numbers on the request for extension don't have to be all that accurate - but it's in your best interests to overshoot a bit (i.e. round up) if there is any danger of your having to pay tax. You'll get it refunded if you've overpaid. If your US withholding is going to cover what you owe, you're all set.
Cheers,
Bev

Bev- I hope you know I will on here next year with the same questions

 

[Bevdeforges]

Bev- I hope you know I will on here next year with the same questions

And assuming no major changes in the tax law, I'll probably still be around with the same answers.

Seriously, you should probably think about downloading publication 54 from the IRS website and reading it through at your leisure. These things are considerably less daunting when you're not under time pressure to fill out the forms.

About 70% of what's covered in pub. 54 probably won't apply to you unless you have particularly complicated financial stuff going on. But reading through the information well ahead of time will give you some idea of what your options are.
Cheers,
Bev

 

[peppera-ann-]

And assuming no major changes in the tax law, I'll probably still be around with the same answers.

Seriously, you should probably think about downloading publication 54 from the IRS website and reading it through at your leisure. These things are considerably less daunting when you're not under time pressure to fill out the forms.

About 70% of what's covered in pub. 54 probably won't apply to you unless you have particularly complicated financial stuff going on. But reading through the information well ahead of time will give you some idea of what your options are.
Cheers,
Bev

thanks bev. and yer ill look it over. I have no financial stuff-no business-no home etc. will just be one employer one form i hope....i have no idea what all needs to be done to file taxes abroad-i dont ever plan on coming back to america-idk what all needs to be done. but as you no, i always start ahead of time with the research.Taxes have always been a hard thing for me to wrap my brain around...ugh

cheers
Pepper xxx