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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Since most us discuss UK immigration concerns, I did some analysis and have presented figures obtained from the official UK Govt website for Office for National Statistics (ONS). :ranger:

All the information presented here can be obtained and downloaded from the following Govt. websites:
1. Migration Statistics Quarterly Report May 2012
2. The PDF report on the ONS website can be downloaded from here
3. Figures shown below were obtained from the spreadsheet file located on the ONS website can be downloaded from here .


Dictionary:
Immigration: People coming into the UK
Emigration: People leaving the UK
Net Migration= People coming into the UK minus People leaving the UK

Figure 1: Shows long-term international total immigration, emigration and net migration figures in the UK for all citizens (British as well as foreign)


Conclusions from Fig. 1:
Total immigration into the UK (Sept 2011): 589,000
Total emigration out of the UK (Sept 2011): 338,000
Net Migration --> 589K-338K: ~ 251,000
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Figure 2: Shows long-term international migration into the UK (i.e. immigration) since 2001-Sept. 2011


Conclusions from Fig. 2:

Total immigration into the UK (in Sept. 2011) for the following reasons:-
Education : 250,000 (42%)
Work : 184,000 (31%)
Family (Acc/ Join): 82,000 (14%)
Other : 38,000 (7%)
No reason given: 35,000 (6%)

Total : 589,000 (100%)
Data in parentheses is the proportion of immigration, for a given reason, in reference to the total immigration into the UK in Sept. 2011

From the above data:
• Accompany/ Join (family related) immigration makes up approx. 14% of the total immigration figures in the UK.

• Most of the immigration figures are dominated for people coming into the UK to study in the British universities (42%) followed by people coming to the UK for employment reasons (31%).

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Figure 3: Shows long-term international total immigration, emigration and net migration figures in the UK for reasons such as study, work, family and other reasons.


Conclusions from Fig. 3:
• Overwhelming proportion of Net Migration figures are dominated by students coming into the UK for studies (~230,000) followed at a significant distance by Accompany/ Join (~48,000). This implies very few people leave the UK to study abroad and more families come into the UK than leave.

• Interestingly enough, for work reasons however, it appears that the figures for people coming into the UK are comparable to the number of people leaving the UK. Hence, the work related net migration is approx. zero.

• Net migration for no reason provided (including people returning back to their homes etc.) is in the negative scale, where more people are leaving than coming in.

End of the migration analysis, thank you for reading :)
 

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I'm shocked! Really only 14% immigration to the UK on settlement! :eek:

Hard-hitting reforms to this mere 14% is hardly going to do much to bring net migration down, especially with fewer Brits willing to leave the UK whilst the Euro situation is so precarious (on this basis it might make no dent whatsoever).

BUT public concern is mostly about immigrants taking homes and jobs, so it's a rather good vote-winning exercise to be seen to hit family visas anyway - and there is already around 77 universities up in arms about the changes already made to student visas - enough to discourage the government from damaging the UK's future market credibility any further (for now).
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm shocked! Really only 14% immigration to the UK on settlement! :eek:

Hard-hitting reforms to this mere 14% is hardly going to do much to bring net migration down, especially with fewer Brits willing to leave the UK whilst the Euro situation is so precarious (on this basis it might make no dent whatsoever).

BUT public concern is mostly about immigrants taking homes and jobs, so it's a rather good vote-winning exercise to be seen to hit family visas anyway - and there is already around 77 universities up in arms about the changes already made to student visas - enough to discourage the government from damaging the UK's future market credibility any further (for now).
My hypothesis is that work related migration into the UK is predominantly from the EU nations as well as Eastern European who basically get a free-ride with limited restrictions.

Secondly, notice how they use the term long-term migration, what does this mean as I am pretty sure it is not permanent residence. The students, who come to this country for education, are counted as a part of the net long-term migrants i.e. is it not reasonable to assume that most students leave the country or do they easily get settlement visa? In my view, looking at the above statistics, would it not be reasonable to tighten the immigration passage via student even more so that its assured the likelihood of them getting permanent residence is limited (especially in this environment with recession and limited jobs).

Looking from a broader perspective its obvious that family related immigration is far less than what media as well as politicians portrays. Govt hands are tied to control work related immigration due to EU rules and they probably cannot be too strict with student immigration because of influence from education bodies as foreign students coming to the UK is a billion pound business per year. Hence, immigration via family is the weakest link in comparison to other routes, which as we all know is the next Govt. target.
 

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My hypothesis is that work related migration into the UK is predominantly from the EU nations as well as Eastern European who basically get a free-ride with limited restrictions.

Secondly, notice how they use the term long-term migration, what does this mean as I am pretty sure it is not permanent residence. The students, who come to this country for education, are counted as a part of the net long-term migrants i.e. is it not reasonable to assume that most students leave the country or do they easily get settlement visa? In my view, looking at the above statistics, would it not be reasonable to tighten the immigration passage via student even more so that its assured the likelihood of them getting permanent residence is limited (especially in this environment with recession and limited jobs).

Looking from a broader perspective its obvious that family related immigration is far less than what media as well as politicians portrays. Govt hands are tied to control work related immigration due to EU rules and they probably cannot be too strict with student immigration because of influence from education bodies as foreign students coming to the UK is a billion pound business per year. Hence, immigration via family is the weakest link in comparison to other routes, which as we all know is the next Govt. target.
It's always the low hanging fruit.

Excellent catch, thank-you! Off to download and read-I'll be up all night:ranger:

ETA: I've read in the past few days on several news sites that recent crackdowns in student visas have resulted in a 60+% (over 60, anyway, can't remember if it is 62 or 64) cut already. I think that's a significant reduction.
 

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These figures do not shock me at all, I am sure there are many illegal immigrants who are not counted. I have seen the UK go 'downhill' as the immigrant figures have risen gradually since the 60's, then a steep rise in the early 2000's, before the recession hit UK in 2007, when unemployment rose further. I hope the new rules are going to be very selective to try to improve the situation for my children and grandchildren who have no choice but to live in the UK, as do many millions of generations of Brits, with ancestry stretching back to doomsday, who made Britain Great once!. From being a happy melting pot of mixed races in the 60's, it has become a ferociously boiling pot of dis-harmony.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You are welcome AIS :)

Fergie: Unemployment is a big concern especially in this recession and that is where it becomes ever so important to, like you said, selectively improve the situation. However, job situation from an immigration perspective is directly linked with foreign workers coming into the UK. And don't be surprised if most workers are from the EU but Govt is unable to do much in this part of the immigration reforms. Considering family immigration contributes a small fraction of overall immigration in the UK, I really doubt if reducing family related immigration will have a significant impact in the job-market
 

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These figures do not shock me at all, I have seen the UK go 'downhill' as the immigrant figures have risen gradually since the 60's, then a steep rise in the early 2000's, before the recession hit UK in 2007, when unemployment rose further. I hope the new rules are going to be very selective to try to improve the situation for my children and grandchildren who have no choice but to live in the UK, as do many millions of generations of Brits, with ancestry stretching back to doomsday, who made Britain Great once!. From being a happy melting pot of mixed races in the 60's, it has become a ferociously boiling pot of dis-harmony.
Fergie, I'm glad you brought this up-can I ask what you think about people who are British by ancestry who are marrying back into the UK?

For example, in my case on my dad's side he was the first in the family to have been both born and buried in the US-I take flowers to my grandparents graves up in the Thurso area of Caithness (and greats as well going back hundreds of years) here in the UK.

I think there a lot of people like me, and I've heard them say they consider themselves 'returnees', not immigrants.

ETA: I think it's important to add that my maiden name is one of the oldest Highland names in Scotland-my people have been here for over a thousand years.
 

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Fergie, I'm glad you brought this up-can I ask what you think about people who are British by ancestry who are marrying back into the UK?

For example, in my case on my dad's side he was the first in the family to have been both born and buried in the US-I take flowers to my grandparents graves up in the Thurso area of Caithness (and greats as well going back hundreds of years) here in the UK.

I think there a lot of people like me, and I've heard them say they consider themselves 'returnees', not immigrants.

ETA: I think it's important to add that my maiden name is one of the oldest Highland names in Scotland-my people have been here for over a thousand years.
Thanks AAIS, I was writing something similar, but it didn't sound nearly as nice as you wrote it. I actually met my husband while I was on a "finding your roots" tour in the UK, we will be moving back to within 5 miles of one of my great grandparents and 30 of another.
 

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If only ' 184,000' wanted to work why did they issue 671,000 national insurance numbers ?

" 671,000 National Insurance numbers (NINos) were allocated to non-UK nationals in the year to December 2011, an increase of one per cent on the year to December 2010 "

That's even more than the 'official' amount of immigrants for the year. Even taking in to account some from the year before wouldn't make the figures correct as the same would have occured the year before.
 

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If only ' 184,000' wanted to work why did they issue 671,000 national insurance numbers ?

" 671,000 National Insurance numbers (NINos) were allocated to non-UK nationals in the year to December 2011, an increase of one per cent on the year to December 2010 "

That's even more than the 'official' amount of immigrants for the year. Even taking in to account some from the year before wouldn't make the figures correct as the same would have occured the year before.
Better yet, how many of those 671000 numbers have gone to the same person more than once?

I wouldn't be surprised if double dipping on the NIN's (and the benefits that they entitle) is happening in the UK... I know for a fact that it happens here in Canada on an alarming basis.

Sigh... I wish that there was some way that they could tighten the numbers without affecting us Fiancée/Spousal/Settlement applicants.
 

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Thanks AAIS, I was writing something similar, but it didn't sound nearly as nice as you wrote it. I actually met my husband while I was on a "finding your roots" tour in the UK, we will be moving back to within 5 miles of one of my great grandparents and 30 of another.
I think this is an important aspect of the immigration topic and really am interested in what British-by-birth think. I had to reword my post several times because I found it sounding somewhat, I dunno, confrontational, and I didn't mean or want to seem that.

I hope Fergie answers, and input from other UKC-by-birth would be helpful as well. My aim as a resident anywhere has always been to respect the feelings and rights of the host country citizens, and input on this possibly sensitive aspect of immigration would go a long ways towards that.

Americans are not Commonwealth country citizens but those of us of British ancestry do tend to feel as though we're coming Home when we move to the UK because so many of us are only a generation or two out.

It's funny in a way because where I lived in the US South, until your family had been there five or more generations, you weren't considered to be 'from there' but were considered a newcomer. In the Desert SouthWest where I was raised, you had to be three generations in to be considered from there (this was back in the 50s).

Again, it's an important aspect of the immigration topic, and I really hope Fergie answers.

RE the NINs, that is an interesting stat considering the other numbers. I wonder if the NIN numbers include guest workers and people on Tier visas, EEA members, etc. I haven't had a chance to dig through the report-I'm printing it out (old, trifocal eyes, sigh)-but am happily anticipating a lovely morning slogging through the numbers.

One thing I remember from my bureaucrat days (retired from stats, actually:D) is that stats are numbers whose conclusions can be, erm, interestingly interpreted depending on need...
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
If only ' 184,000' wanted to work why did they issue 671,000 national insurance numbers ?

" 671,000 National Insurance numbers (NINos) were allocated to non-UK nationals in the year to December 2011, an increase of one per cent on the year to December 2010 "

That's even more than the 'official' amount of immigrants for the year. Even taking in to account some from the year before wouldn't make the figures correct as the same would have occured the year before.
The possible answer lies in the breakdown figures for 671K (again can be obtained from the PDF file link shown on the last page):

EU (exclud. accession nations): 147.78K
EU (accession nations): 224.12K
Non-EU: 14.73K
Africa: 47.97K
Asia: 184.36K
Americas: 30.60K
Australasia: 20.82K
Net Total: 670.38K

From the above, in my opinion, the number of NI numbers issued was this and not 184K (who came to UK only for work) is because NI numbers are possibly issued to both long and short-term immigrants and the figures shown on the last page is specifically for people are living in the UK for long-term only.
 

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Better yet, how many of those 671000 numbers have gone to the same person more than once?

I wouldn't be surprised if double dipping on the NIN's (and the benefits that they entitle) is happening in the UK... I know for a fact that it happens here in Canada on an alarming basis.

Sigh... I wish that there was some way that they could tighten the numbers without affecting us Fiancée/Spousal/Settlement applicants.
Apparently there are existing , 10million nat.ins. numbers more than the population in residence.
 

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I think this is an important aspect of the immigration topic and really am interested in what British-by-birth think. I had to reword my post several times because I found it sounding somewhat, I dunno, confrontational, and I didn't mean or want to seem that.

I hope Fergie answers, and input from other UKC-by-birth would be helpful as well. My aim as a resident anywhere has always been to respect the feelings and rights of the host country citizens, and input on this possibly sensitive aspect of immigration would go a long ways towards that.

Americans are not Commonwealth country citizens but those of us of British ancestry do tend to feel as though we're coming Home when we move to the UK because so many of us are only a generation or two out.

It's funny in a way because where I lived in the US South, until your family had been there five or more generations, you weren't considered to be 'from there' but were considered a newcomer. In the Desert SouthWest where I was raised, you had to be three generations in to be considered from there (this was back in the 50s).

Again, it's an important aspect of the immigration topic, and I really hope Fergie answers..
I was actually raised in a family that still had Welsh speakers and went to a Welsh church until about 20 years ago (Scranton is the second largest Welsh community outside Wales - anthracite coal mining was a specialty that the Welsh had). So strangely, if I look and feel more at home in Wales than I ever have in the Midwest. If I don't say anything, I usually get approached with people speaking Welsh, even in Cardiff, where I understand that is unusual.
 

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I was actually raised in a family that still had Welsh speakers and went to a Welsh church until about 20 years ago (Scranton is the second largest Welsh community outside Wales - anthracite coal mining was a specialty that the Welsh had). So strangely, if I look and feel more at home in Wales than I ever have in the Midwest. If I don't say anything, I usually get approached with people speaking Welsh, even in Cardiff, where I understand that is unusual.
Same sort of thing for me. Lol, I 'pass' until I open my mouth. I wasn't around 'Americans' until I was in my teens and off the ranch in high school-until then I was home-schooled and attended an expat Catholic School. Everyone was either Scottish, Welsh, English or Spanish until I was 14yo.

I really hope Fergie feels comfortable about answering, I didn't mean to sound challenging.

On the stats, I've just finished reading line by line-oh my aged eyeballs! To avoid unintended offense to British statistician counterparts, I am going to download the user guide and try to make further sense of the way they break all that down.

However, from notes taken whilst reading, I have to say I find it difficult to arrive at a clear picture. It did seem the interpretations were contradictory in places, and frankly the mish-mash of different categories make arriving at a clear picture difficult.

From what I could figure from the report, most of the immigration is due to work and study visas, the highest number of NINos went to EU26 and EU8 members, and as thought, family migration routes are the very low-hanging fruit, accounting for faaaaaar less immigration and subsequent 'burden to the State'.

I ended up having to download and read the Excel spreadsheet of Population by country of birth line by line to get the answers I'd think were the most important-just who is overloading the system here?! The answer to that is interesting (Poland, India, Bangladesh topping the chart BUT followed by the US with numbers there much lower-the numbers gap between the top three and the US are significant in mho, which doesn't count, I know); also very interesting is this:

If the big concern is burden on the State, where are the stats showing exactly which immigrant groups forms the worst burden? Who gets off the boat/plane/Chunnel and goes straight on to become a burden?
 

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I'm not too surprised by the lower placed stats of Americans coming to the UK. For the same reason why I think US citizens are the most likely od all applicants to be allowed into the country, the only reason Americans would even come here would likely be for a very genuine reason as there's no real economic gain. My partner gave up not only a well-paid job with great prospects, but also came from sunny Florida to, erm, grey East Anglia..... It HAD to be love!
 

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I think this is an important aspect of the immigration topic and really am interested in what British-by-birth think. I had to reword my post several times because I found it sounding somewhat, I dunno, confrontational, and I didn't mean or want to seem that.

I hope Fergie answers, and input from other UKC-by-birth would be helpful as well. My aim as a resident anywhere has always been to respect the feelings and rights of the host country citizens, and input on this possibly sensitive aspect of immigration would go a long ways towards that.

Americans are not Commonwealth country citizens but those of us of British ancestry do tend to feel as though we're coming Home when we move to the UK because so many of us are only a generation or two out.

It's funny in a way because where I lived in the US South, until your family had been there five or more generations, you weren't considered to be 'from there' but were considered a newcomer. In the Desert SouthWest where I was raised, you had to be three generations in to be considered from there (this was back in the 50s).

Again, it's an important aspect of the immigration topic, and I really hope Fergie answers.

RE the NINs, that is an interesting stat considering the other numbers. I wonder if the NIN numbers include guest workers and people on Tier visas, EEA members, etc. I haven't had a chance to dig through the report-I'm printing it out (old, trifocal eyes, sigh)-but am happily anticipating a lovely morning slogging through the numbers.

One thing I remember from my bureaucrat days (retired from stats, actually:D) is that stats are numbers whose conclusions can be, erm, interestingly interpreted depending on need...
Hello American in beautiful Scotland.
There is no problem at all for people like you coming back to ancestral roots, you have been brought up with the same language, by your relatives who emigrated to America, Canada, Australia or similar places which were popular for emigrants, many years ago. You will have held a lot of similar values, passed on by your parents, and through contact with the original homeland, in your case Scotland, and if your family were religious they would have followed similar ones in US.
I am a Brit by birth, but was born in Germany to my Mum who is German and father who was a British soldier, serving in Germany after the war, and Christened by and Army minister there. Just out of interest, because I love to know my history, I so far have traced my fathers side of the family to the 1500's, we have a branch back in the 1800's which branches to Scotland (Ferguson)was the name there, and Wales (Hughes), but most of the main core family was from Yorkshire and Lancashire. My husbands side of the family did not 'move about' much from the Brighton and london area's,
My mums side in Germany are more difficult to find, I only have them going back to late 1700's, as areas and principalities changes so much.
My husband and I are now immigrants in Spain EU, for healths sake-better weather, and because it is easy to commute to our Mothers, Children and grandchildren in the UK. As it is mainly a Christian country, there are similarities we already have, the language was different, so we are learning, by mixing with locals our new language. We already speak German and French and a few words of Mandarin. We have private health insurance, although soon will be entitled to use the Spanish system, due to EU treaty,if we wish, but intend to keep our Private Healthcare to not be a drain on their system. We have both paid into The Uk NI and Tax system for 45 years, so will be able to get our UK pension transferred.:) hope this helps, your roots are important.
 

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AnAmericanInScotland said:
Americans are not Commonwealth country citizens but those of us of British ancestry do tend to feel as though we're coming Home when we move to the UK because so many of us are only a generation or two out.
...
My fiancé lives in PA but has a scottish clan heritage and has always felt as though he 'doesn't fit in' in the US, with an affinity for all things British. He has visited me once in the UK (I have been twice to see him and he'll be back over after the Olympics) and he says that he feels way more comfortable here, like he has 'come home' so I can completely understand what you mean AAIS :)

What's quite strange is that I have always felt a pull across the pond to the US, having visited on many occasions as I was growing up. My fiancé and I say it was our souls trying to find each other... lol ok, was that too much info?! ;o)
 

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Hello American in beautiful Scotland.
There is no problem at all for people like you coming back to ancestral roots, you have been brought up with the same language, by your relatives who emigrated to America, Canada, Australia or similar places which were popular for emigrants, many years ago. You will have held a lot of similar values, passed on by your parents, and through contact with the original homeland, in your case Scotland, and if your family were religious they would have followed similar ones in US.
I am a Brit by birth, but was born in Germany to my Mum who is German and father who was a British soldier, serving in Germany after the war, and Christened by and Army minister there. Just out of interest, because I love to know my history, I so far have traced my fathers side of the family to the 1500's, we have a branch back in the 1800's which branches to Scotland (Ferguson)was the name there, and Wales (Hughes), but most of the main core family was from Yorkshire and Lancashire. My husbands side of the family did not 'move about' much from the Brighton and london area's,
My mums side in Germany are more difficult to find, I only have them going back to late 1700's, as areas and principalities changes so much.
My husband and I are now immigrants in Spain EU, for healths sake-better weather, and because it is easy to commute to our Mothers, Children and grandchildren in the UK. As it is mainly a Christian country, there are similarities we already have, the language was different, so we are learning, by mixing with locals our new language. We already speak German and French and a few words of Mandarin. We have private health insurance, although soon will be entitled to use the Spanish system, due to EU treaty,if we wish, but intend to keep our Private Healthcare to not be a drain on their system. We have both paid into The Uk NI and Tax system for 45 years, so will be able to get our UK pension transferred.:) hope this helps, your roots are important.
This did help, thank-you!

(And oh, I do understand the weather thing, wowsa! It's raining here again, and back to the low 50sF. Oh my aching hands with the arthritis:()
 
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