[Rabbitcat]

Government U-turn on NHS access for expats - Telegraph

 

[90199]

Normal discrimination by the U.K. government against its citizens that choose to live elsewhere.

 

[Gazeebo]

Normal discrimination by the U.K. government against its citizens that choose to live elsewhere.

Now come on - the government has to find the money to pay for all those coming into Britain from the EU accessing the NHS without paying in a penny - from somewhere.

 

[Lynn R]

Now come on - the government has to find the money to pay for all those coming into Britain from the EU accessing the NHS without paying in a penny - from somewhere.

I think the majority of those coming into Britain from the EU are paying to use the NHS - because they have jobs and are paying National Insurance. In the same way, anyone who comes to Spain and pays autonomo contributions or social security contributions through a contracted job, is also entitled to immediate use of the Spanish state health system.

 

[Gazeebo]

I think the majority of those coming into Britain from the EU are paying to use the NHS - because they have jobs and are paying National Insurance. In the same way, anyone who comes to Spain and pays autonomo contributions or social security contributions through a contracted job, is also entitled to immediate use of the Spanish state health system.

Most are paying in, but not enough to pay for what they are taking out as soon as they get into Britain. I see it day in, day out. What part of Britain do you live in?

 

[90199]

Now come on - the government has to find the money to pay for all those coming into Britain from the EU accessing the NHS without paying in a penny - from somewhere.

Quite so, from taxes deducted from the pensions of those who choose to live elsewhere.

 

[Roy C]

I think UK NHS is residency based and Spain is based on paying in through your employee contributions?

 

[Lynn R]

Most are paying in, but not enough to pay for what they are taking out as soon as they get into Britain. I see it day in, day out. What part of Britain do you live in?

If Britain's economy is so skewed that people in work (British people and immigrants alike) have to have their wages topped up by tax credits and housing benefit, which is in effect a Government (no, make that taxpayer) subsidy to private employers and landlords) that isn't the fault of the immigrants. The NHS would really be in dire straits if it weren't for all the immigrant workers (from both inside and outside the EU) working in it.

I may not live iin Britain now but all my family do and I go back there regularly. Both my sister and my aunt have Polish GPs. Cameron apparently has plans to recruit thousands more GPs over the next few years both to address the current shortage and introduce his 24-hour NHS. Where do you think they will come from, as UK born doctors are increasingly unwilling to work either in A&E or in General Practice?

You yourself are planning to take advantage of free movement within the EU to come and settle in Spain, are you not?

There is nothing stopping the UK from making their benefits system contribution based (as it is in Spain and other European countries) - but that would still not address the fact that people in a low wage/high living costs economy will need benefit top-ups or they could not afford to live.

 

[xabiaxica]

I think UK NHS is residency based and Spain is based on paying in through your employee contributions?

essentially yes - but new immigrants to the UK now have to pay an upfront 'healthcare surcharge'

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-introduces-health-surcharge

 

[xabiaxica]

back to the original article - basically nothing has changed for those of us living in other EU countries. The proposals had been that we would be able to elect to go back to the for planned treatment. In fact there are ways to do this anyway, if your doctors in Spain agree to it. Although in practice it's unlikely to happen since waiting times & availability of treatment are generally better in Spain, anyway.

 

[Lynn R]

back to the original article - basically nothing has changed for those of us living in other EU countries. The proposals had been that we would be able to elect to go back to the for planned treatment. In fact there are ways to do this anyway, if your doctors in Spain agree to it. Although in practice it's unlikely to happen since waiting times & availability of treatment are generally better in Spain, anyway.

There is also something of an inaccuracy in the article where it says that UK citizens living in the EU would have to get an EHIC card from their country of residence to access NHS treatment. In fact, UK pensioners and their dependants who live in other EU countries get their EHIC cards issued from the UK (for use when travelling to the UK or any other EU country other than where they live). Anyone living and working (therefore paying social security contributions) in another EU country could get the EHIC (called a TSE in Spain, I believe) from their country of residence. Anyone who doesn't come into either category (early retirees, for example) can't get an EHIC card from either country - which is the position we were in until the beginning of this year.

 

[Rabbitcat]

It is indeed a bit of a mess. However one aspect I don't understand is when people complain of having " paid in for years".

The payments are national insurance and indeed as per any other type of insurance you don't get anything back if you don't ever claim nor or you entitled to remain covered if you cease paying the premiums

 

[xabiaxica]

There is also something of an inaccuracy in the article where it says that UK citizens living in the EU would have to get an EHIC card from their country of residence to access NHS treatment. In fact, UK pensioners and their dependants who live in other EU countries get their EHIC cards issued from the UK (for use when travelling to the UK or any other EU country other than where they live). Anyone living and working (therefore paying social security contributions) in another EU country could get the EHIC (called a TSE in Spain, I believe) from their country of residence. Anyone who doesn't come into either category (early retirees, for example) can't get an EHIC card from either country - which is the position we were in until the beginning of this year.

yes that too


& there are of course those who have no access to state healthcare at all, neither in the UK because they no longer live there, nor in Spain, because they don't qualify for it

presumably they would have to pay

 

[Roy C]

I think if you have worked and paid up over 35 years of NI contributions , the same as for the pension then you should at least be entitled to healthcare in the country you have paid into. Why should age make a difference.

 

[Rabbitcat]

Roy I don't think age should come into it. But like ANY insurance if you no longer pay in you ain't covered

 

[Roy C]

That's partly my point, pensioners don't pay into it but are covered because they have paid they required amount of contributions for their pensions etc.

 

[Rabbitcat]

Don't get me wrong I think the whole system needs review its just sometimes people think paying premiums into what amounts to state health ins- entitles them to avail of it even if they terminate contributing

I can just imagine the reaction of my car ins company if I complained- I paid into your policy for 30 years and never claimed a penny- yet as soon as I stop paying in you wont cover me!!!

 

[Roy C]

Don't get me wrong I think the whole system needs review its just sometimes people think paying premiums into what amounts to state health ins- entitles them to avail of it even if they terminate contributing

I can just imagine the reaction of my car ins company if I complained- I paid into your policy for 30 years and never claimed a penny- yet as soon as I stop paying in you wont cover me!!!

I hear what you're saying Rabbicat but I think comparing it to car insurance or any other insurance is wrong. National Insurance contributions is a tax not an insurance policy. I believe in higher taxes and better benefits for the population as a whole but based on what you are saying this would exclude the unemployed (hypothetically) from healthcare because they have stopped paying their national insurance in real terms.

Someone can enter the UK and pay in for a short while and get all the benefits of the NHS whereas I or people like me who aren't married to or are a pensioner are put in a position of being denied care if they needed it while travelling to the UK so it does seem a bit unfair, it won't stop me retiring early because we will take out insurance etc but I am in a position were I can do that, others may not be.

 

[xabiaxica]

I think if you have worked and paid up over 35 years of NI contributions , the same as for the pension then you should at least be entitled to healthcare in the country you have paid into. Why should age make a difference.

you are - if you live there

also if you live in an EU country the UK pays for your healthcare there, if you are a pensioner ( and in a few other specific situations)

 

[Roy C]

you are - if you live there

also if you live in an EU country the UK pays for your healthcare there, if you are a pensioner ( and in a few other specific situations)

I'm aware of that but those who retire early outside the UK aren't entitled to anything.