My brother, his wife, and five kids is currently in mexico and 2 years into becoming naturalized. My fiance is mexican and lives near them. I would like to move there before getting married. Is it possible to join in my brothers paperwork as his dependent? All his finances come from the states or would i have to get some sort of fiance visa?
Trying to be with brother and fiance
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Has your brother adopted you or does he have guardianship? Are you over 18?
I do not mean to come off as rude, but .....
I do not mean to come off as rude, but .....
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I just re-read the relevant parts of the Mexican Immigration Law and it states siblings can be included for someone becoming a Permanent Resident only if they are still children or adolescents, unmarried or under the applicant's guardianship.
"Hermanos del residente permanente, siempre y cuando sean niñas, niños y adolescentes y no hayan contraído matrimonio, o estén bajo su representación legal."
How long do you want to live in Mexico before marrying your Mexican fiancé? You can always enter on a 6 month tourist permit to spend time with your brother's family and your fiancé. At the 6 month mark you have 2 choices.
1. Leave the country and re-enter on a new 180 day Tourist Permit
2. Marry your fiancé while still on a valid tourist permit and apply for residency from within Mexico. Marrying a Mexican while on a Tourist Permit is one of the few ways you can apply for residency without leaving the country and without having to meet the financial requirements. You would let INM (Instituto Nacional de Migración) know that you are applying for residency under the "Vínculo Familiar" rules (Family Connection rules).
There is no provision for siblings under Temporary Residency (Residente Temporal).
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I read the law also and think that sponsoring a sibling is there for several reasons. For minor children dependent on a brother or sister, clearly stated. For students who are still in school, not so clearly stated. For disabled people financially dependent on a brother or sister. For retired over 60 or 65 people also dependent on a brother or sister, not stated at all but maybe a possibiity. I doubt it applies to a sybling that is of working age and unemployed. Also comes under the "Vinculo Familiar" law or in English the Family Bond law.
From what you're telling us, it seems that you intend to reside/live in Mexico long-term, and that you won't be visiting as a short-term tourist. Therefore, if I'm interpreting/understanding what you've told us, residing in Mexico with permission given for tourism purposes, is contrary to the regulations and/or law.
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That's your interpretation of the regulations/law, Longford, not what has been happening in practice for many years.
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Don´t state your opinion as a fact, please. This is misleading to other readers who don´t know you.
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You mean, other than the fact that it is not at all contrary to the law.
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As you can see, different expats interpret the Immigration Law differently. But when it comes down to it, none of our opinions matter one whit. Your brother would need to present your case to INM and see if they will allow you to reside in Mexico under the auspices of his residency permit. Theirs is the only opinion that matters.
If he does this, it would be interesting and helpful if you let us know what INM's response is.
I find it a bit silly for anyone to point-out that a participant or participants on this forum is/are expressing an opinion. Probably 99.9% of the comments expressed on this or any other similar forum are just that .... opinion. Opinions is why people participate in forums. Web forums typically advise participants not to rely on conversations on the forums for legal or medical advice. If a question is crucially important to someone they should consult a qualified professional.
That having been said ... I respect your right to express your opinion, uninformed as I believe it is pertaining to the published regulations and/or law in this area.
To the best of my knowledge, there is no provision in the regulations or law which permits expats who establish residency in Mexico to do so on permission intended for and given to persons present in Mexico as tourists. If I've overlooked such a "tourists I'll appreciate your providing a link to it. Yes, there are INM employees who are either lazy, uncaring or corrupt who will allow an expat to do something contrary to the regulations. Ineptness and corruption is a hallmark of many government operations in the country.
Instead of encouraging people asking questions on the topic of Mexican residency requirements to circumvent the regulations/law (or guiding them relative to how its done), it might be best if such people asking the questions were first directed to the regulations so that they, themselves, can make a determination of what to do given their particular, personal circumstance (which, most of the time, are not fully known to us).
I think it's obvious that Mexico has been tightening the 'noose' on illegal aliens both by adoption of the 2012 revised regulations, by the increased vigilance at some entry points and also by the current amnesty - an amnesty (for lack of better description) which, as I've read the public statements (yes, another "opinion") may well exclude expats/foreign migrants who've said they're "tourists" (or who've been present in Mexico on non-existent or long-ago expired FMMs) but who actually residents in Mexico (some for a period of years).
But, to come full circle ... maybe instead of claiming, as if it's a surprise, that someone has expressed an opinion on this forum ... someone create a symbol identifying what someone says as absolute, irrefutable fact. However, who will be the determiner of "fact"?
There is a difference between being in Mexico on serial tourist permits, and remaining in Mexico after a tourist permit or visa expires. The former is legal, the latter clearly not. Amnesty might apply to a person here illegally, i.e with an expired permit or visa, it is irrelevant for someone who is here legally with a current tourist permit or a visa.
He may use a tourist permit to visit for up to 180 days, but must not try to work, and must leave Mexico before the 180th day. He may then return and get a fresh FMM tourist permit for up to 180 days and visit again.
Longford does not like this procedure, but it is not illegal at all.
Longford does not like this procedure, but it is not illegal at all.
Prohibited doesn't necessarily equate to illegal. I side with Longford. Any INM agent can refuse entry to anyone they feel is residing year round in the country without proper residency permit. And a tourist permit is not a resident permit. That is not its intended purpose and all INM agents are aware of that fact and can act accordingly.
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I think that the window for debate on this point remains open because living long-term in Mexico on tourist permits is contrary to the spirit but not the letter of the regulations. As we know, it is certainly possible – people are doing it. More than possible, it is not prohibited – it’s not illegal. But…
In the past, people could live indefinitely in Mexico on FM3 visas, but now an immigrant has to convert to permanent after no more than 4 years of temporary. I think this points to a change of attitude toward migrants such that if they are going to live in Mexico long-term, they are forced to make a stronger – more permanent – commitment. If at some point in the future, long-term residents are disallowed from persisting on tourist permits, it would be consistent with this attitude.
If it is decided in the future to clamp down on long-term tourists, the information system is now in place to do so. If it were to happen, it is also possible that it might be done in practice without adding any new regulations, since allowing entry of a tourist is always at the discretion of the migration official at the entry point.
In the past, people could live indefinitely in Mexico on FM3 visas, but now an immigrant has to convert to permanent after no more than 4 years of temporary. I think this points to a change of attitude toward migrants such that if they are going to live in Mexico long-term, they are forced to make a stronger – more permanent – commitment. If at some point in the future, long-term residents are disallowed from persisting on tourist permits, it would be consistent with this attitude.
If it is decided in the future to clamp down on long-term tourists, the information system is now in place to do so. If it were to happen, it is also possible that it might be done in practice without adding any new regulations, since allowing entry of a tourist is always at the discretion of the migration official at the entry point.
I was under the impression that one can stay indefinitely under Temporary Resident status simply by starting the process all over instead of seeking a prórroga when the 4 or 5 year time allowed is up.
From what I understand after having read a summary of the current amnesty program, persons who have provided INM with false information and/or fraudulent documentation are not covered.
An expat who has established residency in Mexico but who lies about his/her status when doing a 'border run' (as an example) claiming to be entering Mexico for tourism purposes, has, a reasonable person will more than likely assume, provided false information and/or fraudulent documentation.
Persons here who do not understand the difference between being in the country as a tourist and establishing residency ... probably ought to back to high school to re-visit English comprehension.
And though border control agents, INM, have a fair amount of discretion on-the-spot, I think it's time for persons whose status is not regularized or in conformance with the regulations and who boast about loving Mexico so much ... to 'get right' with the authorities or suffer the consequences. Pretending to be ignorant of the regulation, or ignoring the regulations, is no defense to ones bad behavior.
So there you have it! Another opinion! :welcome:
An expat who has established residency in Mexico but who lies about his/her status when doing a 'border run' (as an example) claiming to be entering Mexico for tourism purposes, has, a reasonable person will more than likely assume, provided false information and/or fraudulent documentation.
Persons here who do not understand the difference between being in the country as a tourist and establishing residency ... probably ought to back to high school to re-visit English comprehension.
And though border control agents, INM, have a fair amount of discretion on-the-spot, I think it's time for persons whose status is not regularized or in conformance with the regulations and who boast about loving Mexico so much ... to 'get right' with the authorities or suffer the consequences. Pretending to be ignorant of the regulation, or ignoring the regulations, is no defense to ones bad behavior.
So there you have it! Another opinion! :welcome:
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Sure, one can do that, but there is no guarantee of being accepted. I don’t know how great the risk of rejection might be, but it could happen. Again, it’s defeating the spirit of the new system, and by eliminating the “long-term temporary resident” option that used to exist via FM3, the authorities have been more explicit about that spirit.
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The law makes no mention of "tourism" as the sole aim of someone entering the country on a 180 day permit. It simply states how many days of uninterrupted time they can remain in the country and that they cannot work.
I. VISITANTE SIN PERMISO PARA REALIZAR ACTIVIDADES REMUNERADAS. Autoriza al extranjero para transitar o permanecer en territorio nacional por un tiempo ininterrumpido no mayor a ciento ochenta días, contados a partir de la fecha de entrada, sin permiso para realizar actividades sujetas a una remuneración en el país.
I. VISITOR WITHOUT PERMISSION FOR PAID ACTIVITIES. Authorizes the foreigner to travel through or remain in national territory for no more than one hundred and eighty days uninterrupted time, starting from the date of entry, without permission to carry out paid activities in the country.
Therefore if our OP enters as a visitor, marries a Mexican within 180 days and applies for a Resident Permit under the Family Ties (Vínculo Familiar) section of the legislation, then they are violating neither the letter nor the spirit of the law.
Of course they are not allowed to work on a Visitor's Permit - that would be a clear violation of the law.
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