If Campus France says it all should fly, I'd trust them on that. From what I've seen of the various students who have passed through the forums here, a student visa is generally granted for the length of the program you're enrolled in. I believe it's possible to re- up or extend your student visa for a new program, so long as you are enrolled in the program by the end of your current student program. The one issue is that you have to have all your financing for the program in place to qualify for a student visa. Although you are allowed to work on a student visa, your work time is limited and cannot interfere with you studies (or any requirements of your program - like "stages", i.e. internships).

One thing to keep in mind is that time spent in France on a student visa won't count toward getting a multi-year residence permit, nor toward taking French nationality. However, if you apply for a talent visa, that is apparently the only visa that you can apply for from within France. You'd most likely need some sort of a business plan to start up a business in France - ideally using what you had learned from your student program(s).

Immigration law here has recently been changed - and not all the changes have made it onto the pages of Service Public yet. And no doubt, there will be further changes over the time period that you'll be studying here, so you'll need to stay up to date on that while you're here. But hey, nothing ventured.... you know the rest.

 

Thanks for your reply, that's reassuring. The Campus France representative I spoke with here at the US embassy was not sure about visa transition, same for a couple other sources. What I am going off of from the Campus France website is that they state that graduating with a professional license allows you to apply for the freelancing visa. They state elsewhere that L3 is a professional license, so I am making that tiny logical leap that this diploma meets the criteria. The photography school itself says the same but did not elaborate on whether you must return to your country first. Your point about the talent visa being accessible from within France is motivating, thanks for that insight. Also about the immigration laws, very helpful. I am working with a French consultant on creating business plans for various visa types, and the school helps you develop a business plan for your post graduate life, so hopefully we will get this all nailed down.

 

Bear in mind that whilst in theory it should be easier to change to a different type of titre de séjour from within France, in practice people are currently experiencing long delays renewing their residence permits even when no change of status is involved. Some people report waiting the best part of a year. And during this time you would be in limbo. It may actually be quicker and less frustrating to return home and apply for a new visa. The criteria are the same whichever way you do it.
Of course the delays may be resolved by that time, but something to keep an eye on.

 

Thank you for that observation. I am still uncertain if I'll be eligible to directly apply for the entrepreneur/profession libérale visa after completing studies, so I' am going to schedule another call with Campus France to clarify. I'll post what I learn.

 

The issue is not really whether you will be "eligible to apply" - anybody can submit an application - it is whether you application is strong enough to be successful. Which until you get to the point of listing your relevant achievements, preparing your business plan etc, how can anyone assess your chances. It all depends on how well things go over the next few years. But, if you follow your plans, take every opportunity to gain documented skills and experience and develop professional contacts along the way - will your diploma course include a stage? if so, make the most of it - then with the school supporting you, you should potentially be in a very good position when the time comes.

The thing is, applying for a prof lib visa is not a box ticking exercise. They consider your whole application and look for evidence that you have the personal and professional qualities to make a success of your venture.

 

EuroTrash, yes I agree with those points about having a strong business plan, experience and portfolio. I am working on all of those here stateside and plan to move in one year. I did not qualify my comment well. By "eligible" I meant whether a student graduating with an L3/advanced bachelor degree qualification can apply from within France, or must the applicant return home after graduating ? Some diplomas allow for this, master degrees, for example. Others from certain countries (not the US) can apply directly as well. I've looked for information about this particular question and the information is ambiguous. Regardless, I'll move forward with advancing my language and photography skills in school there and do whatever is required for the visa process. As BevDeforges said, nothing ventured ...

 

In fact, I think your question is whether you would be eligible to request the one year carte de séjour "recherche d'emploi/ création d'entreprise"? That is not the same as applying directly for a carte de séjour "entrepreneur/profession libérale".

Yes it is a question for Campus France.

 

@lechienbohème -- From what I gather, you can apply for the visa you are interested in from within France, if you are on a current valid visa/residency permit. The same holds true for the Talent Passport. In fact, there have been quite a few Masters' students that have created companies (and applied for the Talent Passport,) in their final year of studies, to basically secure a "job," in France, for themselves, working for their own company (established in their field of study.)

An alternative to your current plan -- consider adding a Masters' of Fine Arts (MFA) in Photography after completion of your Bachelors'. Cheers, @255

 

@ 255 Hi, thanks for that advice. There is not a master program that is fit a for me, this photography school grants an RNCP 6/L3 professional license, but I do think you are right in that I can apply for a Profession Libérale visa without leaving the country, and that would work well for me. The photography school itself says that the PL is a common visa route for non EU graduates, the recherche d'emploi/ création d'entreprise visa mentioned by EuroTrash is not an option without a Master diploma according to the school, but a PL visa would serve me well as I would start a business.

I've emailed and spoken with Campus France by phone, they punted the question to the embassy, who punted to a dead end, meaning to an office in Paris that requires an in person visit. Their website is not clear on the visa options for the particular program I am apply to.

I think I'll be ok. I'll get a solid education in French and photography, and if I can apply in country directly as a graduate, that would be great. If not, it's not the end of the world.

If I learn anything new, I'll post it here.

 

I think you're making this more complicated than it is. When a person's titre de séjour expires, they can either apply to renew it like for like, or they can apply for a change of status ie apply for a different titre (which is essentially what you aim to do). Either way, once their application has been accepted they have the right to remain in france pending the decision. I see no reason why this option would not be open to you.
The other option is to return home and re-enter on a new visa, which may prove the more efficient option because visa applications tend to be processed a lot quicker than change of status applications - typically a few weeks rather than many months.y

 

Hi Lechienboheme , Did you manage to find out if you could convert your student visa (VLS-TS) to a professional liberale visa whilst in France ?

 

I suspect, however, that things might be a bit easier if the business you're looking to establish is related to the studies you did in France. Just saying...

 

@cyberk13 Yes, it appears to be possible and routine to transition to a profession liberal visa without leaving the country according to the photography school, and students seeking to stay in France commonly take this route.

 

Hi everyone, I am the OP and have a possible detour to this plan and would welcome advice on the visa process. I am planning to move to France this summer and enroll during the first 12-15 months in intensive French, this would bring me up to C1. I would start photography school right afterwards and complete it in about 10 months.

I would like to stay and work in France long term, and I am planning to apply for the visa profession liberale after that to work as a freelance photographer. I am working with a French consultant to prepare the business plan when that times comes, and the school itself supports students in creating a business plan as they aim to produce working professional photographers. I think this is a viable plan, but it is not lost on me that making a career in photography is challenging these days.

Now the possible detour : Here in the US I am a double boarded surgeon and mid career, and I had planned to leave this behind. Many reasons for that related to practice in the US, but also in small part because obtaining a French medical license seemed out of reach. But the steps to earning a French medical license are not as formidable as I once thought, and there is a new and easier pathway to obtain the visa talent for non EU docs who take this route, so that shifts my thinking towards trying for the medical license pathway. However, I am unsure how to lay this out in the visa application with the French/Photography plan. The medical specialty exam requires B2 certification, so I could not take the exam until my second year (while studying photography) once I have achieved B2. If I plan to take the exam while going to photography school, do I even mention it in the visa application ? If I score well, then I could start the additional 2 year process to becoming a licensed French physician on a visa talent around the end of the photography program, and I would plan to move into medicine for work and continue photography as a hobbyist. While logical to me, I can see that it probably looks like a stark change in direction to someone reading my application. If I do not do well enough to qualify for a license, then I would just use plan A for photography and maybe try the next year as the exam is given once a year. Advice on how to language this in the visa application when my career direction has two possibilities and I would be happy with both ? Many thanks for advice.

 

@lechienbohème -- Nobody has answered yet, so I'll throw in my two cents. I'd suggest applying for one or the other. The new talent visa for medical personnel seems more lucrative, to me, and you would get a four year renewable residency permit, in the end. It just depends what you really want to do. Whichever way you go, you could pursue the other "profession" on the side. If you continued on your original path for photography -- you could work towards getting your medical certs. recognized and on improving your French -- which is most likely a requirement. On the other hand, if your surgical credentials become "dated," it may be harder to get your medical credentials recognized in France. My daughter-in-law is an ER Doc and I know she has routine medical certification courses/exams she has to maintain to work in her field. I would not try to mix the two in your visa application. France does have a "shortage" of physicians (due to a "flawed" decision, years ago, to limit the number of medical students.) If your first visa application is unsuccessful, you could always apply, under the other option (I think you'd be successful, either way.) Good luck! Cheers, @255

 

@255 thanks for your advice and the encouragement. I would probably be happier and contribute more to society as a surgeon with a photography hobby than the reverse, but I am unsure of how to approach the visa to stay in France long enough to be come fluent in French and pass the exam, which would take 1.5 to 2.0 years. Going back and forth to the US would not work well for my situation, and it would be much better to have a reason to stay in France while I progress in fluency and join the French surgical society in my specialty and learn the practice protocols there. Is it possible to obtain a visa to study French for 2 years ? I would be really motivated to do that. The language requirement to take the QVC medical exam is B2, but I do not think this is enough to actually practice medicine and integrate professionally, and C1 or C2 would be my goal if I go this route. There are language courses for professionals that I could add on in addition to the usual FLE programs. Any ideas on a visa approach ?

Also the "dated credentials" idea is important, I don't know how the EU would view a gap in practice, I'll look for information online. In the US, you can have a 2 year gap as a surgeon before you need a reentry/supervision program to practice again. Once you pass the French QVC exam in any specialty, there is a 2 year pathway of supervision as a sort of junior attending to becoming independent, so that would serve the purpose of getting one back up to speed. And also being part of the French surgical society would be very helpful is this regard and for acculturation in general, another reason to stay in France for the process.

Thanks again.

 

@lechienbohème -- This new visa, Talent – medical and pharmacy professions,” is so new, there probably isn't any members of this forum that can provide input, over what research you can do on your own. I'd suggest submitting an application, as you read the requirements. I do not know the requirements, but you can probably get anything done you need, in the U.S. Most cities have an The Federation of Alliances Françaises USA - Home chapter and can help you find French language discussion groups to assist you in bringing your French to a high enough level to meet the requirements. You may have to travel for testing, but you can take the language level certification test in the U.S. After you get to France, you can continue learning French, by continuing to take classes and by just interacting with French people in your daily life (making sure you don't fall back on English. I had a friend that traded English lessons for French lessons, with a native speaker -- they both improved their language skills dramatically. Additionally, you can probably have your medical credentials reviewed by any French agency by submission of any dossier by courier. Find out how to join the French Surgical Society from abroad -- something like this would only bolster your application.

There are French courses that you can get a student visa to study French -- visit Étudiant | Campus France Studying in France . I think the minimum course length is four months to qualify. Personally, if I was in your situation, I'd learn French in the U.S., utilizing multiple modalities and get tested to the required level and then apply for your visa. The Talent visa itself doesn't have a language requirement -- it is exempted from the new rules. The agency that certifies doctors probably does have a minimum level to practice. There was a YouTube channel, that I routinely watched, a few years ago, and the creator increased her French to C-1 or C-2, through self-study, utilizing multiple modalities. Of course, she lived in France, and had to speak it everyday.

Additionally, you might want to contact a firm, like the authors of this article: A new Talent Passport for foreign doctors - J2M - French Law Firm that are keeping abreast of the new requirements, for guidance (or more.)

I do not think this is an insurmountable problem -- but it will take work and patience. In a past life, I helped many folks, including two nurses and a couple of psychologists immigrate to the U.S., from multiple countries. Believe me, it is just as hard to come to the U.S., or Canada, as it is to immigrate, as a professional, to France. Maybe even harder, but the steps are nearly the same, whatever the skill set. Unfortunately, many find it in the "too hard box," and aren't successful in continuing their lifetime profession -- usually because of a lack of patience, just not doing the work or becoming discouraged. Just itemize the requirements to achieve your goal and make a plan to execute each one, one step at a time. Best of luck. Cheers, @255

 

@255 Thanks for the helpful follow advice and links. Consultation with an immigration attorney is great advice, and I'll pursue that. Do you see a disadvantage to learning the language in France instead of the US ? I've taken excellent courses online that ended at B1/B2 about a year ago (I am probably A2 now after some brush up), and the French instructors were emphatic that the next step to continue learning in French was immersion in France. I feel that is the best way for me. I am in rural area, there is no local possibility of learning French around here except online, and I've done that. It would be possible to continue this way, but learning would be faster and more enjoyable with immersion. The surgical society requires that new members be sponsored by an established member, so that would not happen stateside, either. Also they have helpful meetings around the year about new techniques, teaching workshops and so forth, these would be invaluable to attend as well as getting advice from other surgeons about the exam and surgical practice, and generally acculturating to how things work there in medicine. I got this advice about joining the surgical society and making contacts from an anesthesiologist who is mostly done with this process (without this new visa program). I am thinking like you that it would bolster my application, but in this case for the renewal as I would do these things during the year of intensive French in France. The EVC exam (sorry about the QVC above) would be given just after the end of a year of FLE study. So my main question is what is the advantage of staying in the US rather than accomplish the same things in France, as long as the visa process allows it ? Many thanks !

 

You may want to consult the requirements for recognition of your medical credentials here in France. I know there is a language requirement, but I believe there is also a certain amount of "re-training" involved as well. The europa.eu portal site gives you links to the specific requirements in various countries:

Professional qualifications - Your Europe

Regulated professions and professional qualifications in different EU countries

europa.eu

Medicine as she is practiced in France may require a certain level of re-training due to the public/private sector rules and regulations, as well as some differences in practice and treatment.

 

@lechienbohème --Ever since COVID, many Alliance Francaise chapters still utilize ZOOM, for their classes. My main idea about improving your French stateside is for you to maintain employment, as a surgeon, to keep your skills "fresh" before your transition. I do think learning the language, in France, would be more efficient (and more enjoyable.)

I concur that your attendance at the French Surgical Society conferences makes a lot of sense -- perhaps you can ingratiate a new French colleague to sponsor you. I'm pretty sure a student visa, to study French, can be issued for a full year + . Additionally, the old Passport Talent was generally able to be applied for while on a valid residency permit, in France -- so you most likely will be able to apply for it during the time you'd be in France, studying the language and networking. Cheers, @255

P.S. To @Bevdeforges point: In addition to joining the French Surgical Society, you'll probably need to have your professional credentials reviewed/certified to ensure you meet the general requirements to work as a physician in France. This will certainly entail submission of college/medical school transcripts, current licenses, and professional certifications. You may also need letters attesting to your skills. The result of this review will often results in requirements for additional schooling/testing. Some, may be met by providing additional "evidence," while others may require additional study, experience or testing.

P.P.S. Just FYI, I mentioned, in a previous post, that my daughter-in-law was an ER physician. She has been an ER Attending, in the U.S., for over a decade. She inquired about working in Columbia and Canada. Columbia would take her straight up, but Canada would require her to complete an additional year, as a Resident.

 

Thank you both Bev and 255. Having my credentials reviewed and verified is an excellent point. They probably do have some areas that differ in practice. Hopefully the obligatory 2 year period of supervised practice after passing the EVC will allow for any retraining that may be necessary, but better to know for sure what i would sign up for.

@255 - Very good point about keeping active professionally, and I'll find a way to work that in. When I started this plan more than a year ago, I made a provision in the budget for returning to the US once if needed. I have a big doodle dog, and flying in the cabin is very expensive. (For others looking for this service, K9Jets and Bark Air are the two airlines that allow dogs of any size on board.). But to address the gap in practice, I could move forward with a year of French in France then travel back and work in the US for 3 months before returning to take the exam there. Probably net neutral financially, but it makes a lot of sense to do this. I am pretty sure that my current job would readily accommodate this.

One consideration on my end about where to study and get these things done is that I started the ball rolling more than year ago and now have a house on the market, job end date non refundable dog flight, etc... so if I can retrofit around these plans, it would be so much easier.

I appreciate your help in moving forward, I now have a to do list, and I'll report back what I learn.

 

@lechienbohème -- We fly annually or more with our dog in a crate and although he is one of the family, he's no worse for wear. He is too big to fly in the cabin on "regular" airlines. We usually get the kennel out, a few weeks before our trips to familiarize him (refamiliarize,) with the door open. He's probably made close to two dozen flights by now, but not transcontinental in length (although our previous dog did.) Also, my daughter's in-laws split their time between the U.S. and the UK, making multiple trips annually with their large dog (and they live on the West coast.)

Another alternative is to travel on Cunard's Queen Mary 2 (QM2.) The QM2 has kennels, on board, and although your dog can't join you, in your cabin, you can walk him daily. If you want kennel space, you'd need to make reservations early to insure space (the same for airlines, they can have restrictions.) Cheers, @255

P.S. Thanks for keeping us informed. Often times we get tons of queries, with commensurate answers, but no follow-up as to the final results -- hence, the inevitable posts, on old threads, asking "How things turned out?"

 

I switched from student to profession libérale after gathering a bunch of invoices and showing income potential. Prefecture wanted proof of clients and a detailed business plan that matched my qualifications.