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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Article in the Spanish press today that really surprised me :eek: I suppose we generally form an opinion on a particular service based on our own personal experiences .... and me and my OHs experience of the HC system here in Spain has been fantastic!

Im sure that each area of Spain has different levels of efficiency and care and perhaps the Costa del Sol Hospital and the local Health Centres where I live are a good example!

This report shows a decline in the Health services here, and to be honest Spain wasnt that high on the list in the first place it seems!

Sue :ranger:


The Euro Health Consumer Index puts Spain's public health care system at 21 out of 34 countries

Spain’s health service has dropped again in the Euro Health Consumer Index, a Europe-wide survey of the health services in 34 countries. It’s carried out every year by Health Consumer Powerhouse, and the results for 2009 show Spain to have dropped 3 points down to No. 21 in the league table.

It puts the country on a par with health systems in some countries in Eastern Europe, and behind others such as Estonia, Hungary, Cyprus and Italy. Spain scored 630 out of a possible 1,000 points.

The reported noted a ‘continuous decline in the Spanish, Portuguese and Greek health care systems which do not keep up with the improvement rate one can find in countries like the Netherlands, Denmark or Ireland’. In fact, HCP’s Director, Dr. Arne Bjornborg, commented that the ‘public health system in Spain seems incapable of developing a strategy to improve access and the quality of its services, which would explain the great development seen in the private sector in recent years.’

Drastic changes to improve efficiency and quality were recommended for Spain, with low scores even for aspects which the authors of the report considered to be easy to improve: such as patients’ rights and the quality of online health services.

The Netherlands were seen as having the best health care system in Europe for the second year in a row.
 

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Thanks for that, Sue. I've just read the report and I was interested to see that the UK doesn't score too highly. For a long time I've been thinking about the merits of Bismarck v Beveridge systems and my experience of German and Canadian health care seems to indicate that the Bismarck approach works best.
Trillions of £ have been spent on the NHS in the last decade but from what I've heard recently things on the ground don't seem to show a commensurate improvement in quality of care.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for that, Sue. I've just read the report and I was interested to see that the UK doesn't score too highly. For a long time I've been thinking about the merits of Bismarck v Beveridge systems and my experience of German and Canadian health care seems to indicate that the Bismarck approach works best.
Trillions of £ have been spent on the NHS in the last decade but from what I've heard recently things on the ground don't seem to show a commensurate improvement in quality of care.
Hi M

I was surprised to see the UK 14th overall though, and Spain 21st - that certainly isnt a reflection of my own experience - but then my experiences arent going to influence such a report are they! :D
 

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I wonder how and what they base their findings on!????? It'll be statistical findings as apposed to any real observations and surveys

Jo xxx
 

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Hi M

I was surprised to see the UK 14th overall though, and Spain 21st - that certainly isnt a reflection of my own experience - but then my experiences arent going to influence such a report are they! :D

When I remarked to German and Canadian friends that I was impressed with what I had seen of their countries' health systems they were surprised....and disagreed with my opinion.
Like everything, our views are largely formed by our personal experiences, no matter what statistics show.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi Jo

The report is a lengthy one not sure if you have read it all .... but there are charts further into it that list the criteria on which the survey was carried out and "scored" .... I havent read it in detail as I dont have the time at the moment .... maybe at lunchtime.

Sue x
 

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Hi M

I was surprised to see the UK 14th overall though, and Spain 21st - that certainly isnt a reflection of my own experience - but then my experiences arent going to influence such a report are they! :D
I can't believe the UK scored so much higher than Spain. It's not your experience Sue nor mine, nor many other people who've posted on this forum in the past. My parents are always amazed at the treatment we get here too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I can't believe the UK scored so much higher than Spain. It's not your experience Sue nor mine, nor many other people who've posted on this forum in the past. My parents are always amazed at the treatment we get here too.
I agree Pesky ... again I suppose there may be some regional differences in terms of care here ?? and perhaps we are lucky to live in one of the better organised and funded ones ????

Sue
 

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Interesting article, Sue - and surprising too, as I would have thought that Spain would rank higher than that, but as M pointed out, it's generally down to one's experience and so far, we've been very pleased with the system in general.

I don't agree with the reasoning for private medical though. I see it as plain and simple numbers. In Spain, it's VERY affordable and in the UK it wasn't. Simple as that - and believe me, our income in the UK was greater in the UK.

Also, interesting that it paints a very different picture to the widely acknowledged as a good source World CIA Fact Book, and not just in the health area either.

I also wonder whether there is a postcode lottery controversy here in Spain as there is in the UK regarding health facilities and medical treatment?? Also, I know as I think most of us who have been here a while know, that response in Spain is directly linked to assertiveness of the request. I am convinced without doubt, following personal experiences, that if you hang around, waiting to be taken by the hand, you're gonna be waiting a long time. :(

Tallulah.x:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Interesting article, Sue - and surprising too, as I would have thought that Spain would rank higher than that, but as M pointed out, it's generally down to one's experience and so far, we've been very pleased with the system in general.

I don't agree with the reasoning for private medical though. I see it as plain and simple numbers. In Spain, it's VERY affordable and in the UK it wasn't. Simple as that - and believe me, our income in the UK was greater in the UK.

Also, interesting that it paints a very different picture to the widely acknowledged as a good source World CIA Fact Book, and not just in the health area either.

I also wonder whether there is a postcode lottery controversy here in Spain as there is in the UK regarding health facilities and medical treatment?? Also, I know as I think most of us who have been here a while know, that response in Spain is directly linked to assertiveness of the request. I am convinced without doubt, following personal experiences, that if you hang around, waiting to be taken by the hand, you're gonna be waiting a long time. :(

Tallulah.x:)
Hi Tally

The "post code lottery" scanario is something that I mentioned earlier, and maybe this gives us our own personal opinions on the Health care system here, hence my personal surprise when it showed Spain being so low!

Your comment regarding assertiveness may also hold some truth - I can only say that my recent, and ongoing experience has been fantastic - with no pressure or assertiveness needed on my part. In addition my OHs treatment since his stroke just over 2 years ago continues smoothly and efficiently .... with no pressure from us.

This of course may no be the case in someone elses area ....

Sue
 

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The Guardian told a different story from the same group in Oct 2007.

UK falls further down European health league despite rise in funding | World news | The Guardian

Then, Spain at No 14 and UK at No 17.

Are they now expecting me to believe that whilst keeping exactly the same criteria, with exactly the same weighting of factors, in statistics dealing with Social Security System budgets and the people's of a whole country, the changes can be this vast this quickly??
I mean, I've done a little bit of trend analysis work myself, and you'll have to forgive me but I think this is total BS.

In my opinion, they should work only with factually verifiable criteria. No ideology or politically driven criteria that is not verifiable. Time to final treatment, Right First Time, Infant mortality, Life Expectancy, Drug availability across the range, freedom of choice in free second opinion analysis etc., etc. And not things like expenditure of GDP per capita. This can be sky high and still a total farce of a system…. Naming no countries here!

Xose
 

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Xa, Xa, Xose.
Availability of drugs. in my view, the situation is far superior here. Okay, I've been waiting a few months for a non-emergency x-ray, but I know that if they find what they are looking for, I will be treated fast and with efficiency.
One of our friends has asthma and has been prescribed a not-particularly expensive drug, which works brilliantly.
One of her grown-up daughters also has asthma and was told that no way was she going to get this drug on the NHS, despite the fact that it will keep her well and prevent attacks, which always result in hospital treatments.

Hope to see you guys soon...
saludos,
The legless diva!
xx





The Guardian told a different story from the same group in Oct 2007.

UK falls further down European health league despite rise in funding | World news | The Guardian

Then, Spain at No 14 and UK at No 17.

Are they now expecting me to believe that whilst keeping exactly the same criteria, with exactly the same weighting of factors, in statistics dealing with Social Security System budgets and the people's of a whole country, the changes can be this vast this quickly??
I mean, I've done a little bit of trend analysis work myself, and you'll have to forgive me but I think this is total BS.

In my opinion, they should work only with factually verifiable criteria. No ideology or politically driven criteria that is not verifiable. Time to final treatment, Right First Time, Infant mortality, Life Expectancy, Drug availability across the range, freedom of choice in free second opinion analysis etc., etc. And not things like expenditure of GDP per capita. This can be sky high and still a total farce of a system…. Naming no countries here!

Xose
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
My OH takes 4 lots of meds for blood pressure etc since his stroke - 3 are standard drugs and after the discount we get for paying into the SS system they cost us in total around 4 euros every month!!!! .... the 4th one is classed as a "dangerous drug" :confused2::confused2: indeed!!! and we have to get a special stamp on it (rubber stamp of course :D:D) before we can cash it in at the farmacia - this one should cost 90 euros a month!!!! we get it for less than 5! he has been taking these now for 2 years and will have to take them for life ...... I think we get a very good deal in the Spanish Health care system whatever the statistics say!

Sue xx
 

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I quite agree. I like the idea that the more essential a drug is for your longevity, the cheaper it is. I have no complaints whatsover. The booking system for a GP appointment is so easy and quick. Of course, getting into the system can take time, but as my OH is retired, it did make it a little easier.
xx


My OH takes 4 lots of meds for blood pressure etc since his stroke - 3 are standard drugs and after the discount we get for paying into the SS system they cost us in total around 4 euros every month!!!! .... the 4th one is classed as a "dangerous drug" :confused2::confused2: indeed!!! and we have to get a special stamp on it (rubber stamp of course :D:D) before we can cash it in at the farmacia - this one should cost 90 euros a month!!!! we get it for less than 5! he has been taking these now for 2 years and will have to take them for life ...... I think we get a very good deal in the Spanish Health care system whatever the statistics say!

Sue xx
 

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Xa, Xa, Xose.
Availability of drugs. in my view, the situation is far superior here. Okay, I've been waiting a few months for a non-emergency x-ray, but I know that if they find what they are looking for, I will be treated fast and with efficiency.
One of our friends has asthma and has been prescribed a not-particularly expensive drug, which works brilliantly.
One of her grown-up daughters also has asthma and was told that no way was she going to get this drug on the NHS, despite the fact that it will keep her well and prevent attacks, which always result in hospital treatments.

Hope to see you guys soon...
saludos,
The legless diva!
xx
Hey Norma,
All I can say is that I've yet to be prescribed some Paracetamol in Spain (as I was once in the UK) and then nearly end up paying what at today's prescription charge rate in the UK would be £7.10 for them. I know that depends on the GP, but bloodyheckaslike.

Yes, be great to have the Northern contingent meet up soon.

Take care and regards to Mr Diva,
Xose
 
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