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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
In his article entitled "The beginnings of a South African version of the Arab Spring", Marvin Caldwell-Barr states: "But this is no time for complacence. The events playing out on the silver screen, seemingly so far removed from middle class suburbia, will catch up with us all eventually, if the ANC government doesn’t address properly the legitimate grievances of the masses."

SOUTH AFRICA: FUTURE UNCERTAIN: The beginnings of a South African version of the Arab Spring

I have always been a solution driven person. If it's broken, I want to fix it or discard of it. I am at a point of hopelessness. Not as far as my own life is concerned, but because I would like to see South Africa thrive.

For me, it is too late to turn back. The decision I made a few years ago to uproot my family and eventually move to the US has progressed too far. But I wish I could still fix it, or help to fix it, which by the way, I am actively doing with my non profits.

If you could fix it, how would you go about?:clap2::confused2:
 

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In his article entitled "The beginnings of a South African version of the Arab Spring", Marvin Caldwell-Barr states: "But this is no time for complacence. The events playing out on the silver screen, seemingly so far removed from middle class suburbia, will catch up with us all eventually, if the ANC government doesn’t address properly the legitimate grievances of the masses."

SOUTH AFRICA: FUTURE UNCERTAIN: The beginnings of a South African version of the Arab Spring

I have always been a solution driven person. If it's broken, I want to fix it or discard of it. I am at a point of hopelessness. Not as far as my own life is concerned, but because I would like to see South Africa thrive.

For me, it is too late to turn back. The decision I made a few years ago to uproot my family and eventually move to the US has progressed too far. But I wish I could still fix it, or help to fix it, which by the way, I am actively doing with my non profits.

If you could fix it, how would you go about?:clap2::confused2:
The key is education.
Find the 5 best teachers for every subject in every grade.
use the acres of spare Studios at SABC TV and immediately produce and beam out
lessons to every single SA TV set, make sure that every classroom has a set.
you can immediately put the best teachers in front of the kids who need it as well as those who have dropped out but have access to a TV set.

You can do it in every ethnic language.
the teachers in the classrooms are there to follow on with exercises.

Its the cheapest quickest way to get good educators in front of those who need it.

you could beam the first programme out within a week.


It wont solve he immediate problem of unemployment but that problem will resolve itself.

The AIDS pyramid is going to reduce SA's population by 40% within twenty years.
with education, you can create entrepreuneurs, you can give kids a chance and you might swing the new infection cycle.

otherwise its another Uganda ahead.
 

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The key is education.
Find the 5 best teachers for every subject in every grade.
use the acres of spare Studios at SABC TV and immediately produce and beam out
lessons to every single SA TV set, make sure that every classroom has a set.
you can immediately put the best teachers in front of the kids who need it as well as those who have dropped out but have access to a TV set.

You can do it in every ethnic language.
the teachers in the classrooms are there to follow on with exercises.

Its the cheapest quickest way to get good educators in front of those who need it.

you could beam the first programme out within a week.


It wont solve he immediate problem of unemployment but that problem will resolve itself.

The AIDS pyramid is going to reduce SA's population by 40% within twenty years.
with education, you can create entrepreuneurs, you can give kids a chance and you might swing the new infection cycle.

otherwise its another Uganda ahead.
i remember in my youth. a very long time ago, every morning on bbc and itv was devoted to school programs linked to study done in class rooms. an excelent system.

sabc does a program called matric uploaded, but it seems to be on late at night, i keep tunning in expecting to see keanu doing battle. also top tv does have a channel dedicated to educational programs, so some of the infostructure is in place, and im sure the bbc would happily let sabc have access to there old educational programs. ok some will be out of date now, but maths is maths.
 

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Please understand how cheap he solution is.

You dont need sets,, all you need is an electronic whiteboard, you need a cameraman, a sound engineer and a controller.
all of the above exists and is on payroll.
there are spare channels not being used for which SABC TV pays licence fees.

The whole thing when I priced it came to under 1 million a year.
thats two E class Mercs less for Govt cars.

know what the answer was?
You need to do it as a business with some BEE partners.
 

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Please understand how cheap he solution is.

You dont need sets,, all you need is an electronic whiteboard, you need a cameraman, a sound engineer and a controller.
all of the above exists and is on payroll.
there are spare channels not being used for which SABC TV pays licence fees.

The whole thing when I priced it came to under 1 million a year.
thats two E class Mercs less for Govt cars.

know what the answer was?
You need to do it as a business with some BEE partners.
Something they were intending to start in England a few years ago (Labour I should think so probably no longer in effect) was an incentive to financially reward teenagers for achieving academically in high school - a system which of course has been in force for yonks with burseries / prizes etc but this was a basic payment just for turning up at school each day and doing their homework etc. I am sure if children were given free milk and fruit at school that may also give them an incentive to go if they are hungry. All boils down to bribery at the end of the day. Fantastic idea about the TV's / Whiteboards just think you have to address the hunger too as its a well known fact that kids can't concentrate on schoolwork when they are hungry. You also have the problem of older children having to stay home from school to look after smaller children / ill grandparents whilst parents work so the TV system would be fab for them. Pity that the government got rid of so many good teachers they thought they no longer needed but I think there are many willing but less able teachers who would be great at supporting the lessons broadcast on a TV.
 

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i remember in my youth. a very long time ago, every morning on bbc and itv was devoted to school programs linked to study done in class rooms. an excelent system.

sabc does a program called matric uploaded, but it seems to be on late at night, i keep tunning in expecting to see keanu doing battle. also top tv does have a channel dedicated to educational programs, so some of the infostructure is in place, and im sure the bbc would happily let sabc have access to there old educational programs. ok some will be out of date now, but maths is maths.
This bit about maths being maths has made me laugh....... my daughter is in year 3 at school. The school had to hold several sessions FOR PARENTS of how to teach their children maths at home because the systems have changed so much and the way we did maths is no longer used. We had a really embarressing situation as the kids at one point were having to show their parents what they were learning at school. For example - when adding 37 and 23 in the olden days you would put one above the other under tens and units and draw a line and add units then tens - not so now.... we have to break down the numbers mentally adding the tens first then breaking the units into nearest 5 and adding the 5s then the remainer.... confusing yes indeed! (30 + 20 = 50 + 5 + 2 + 3) Strangely enough though - having taught the kids this system they then learn the old system the following year at school.... URGH! Bring on TV education in UK too which can teach PARENTS what kids are learning in school. I am lucky cos my daughters school is brilliant at educating the parents (afterall that makes their lives easier) but that isn't the case in all government schools. Other thing here is you have programmes broadcast doing one thing (sounds / spellings of words which they do using the name of the letter) but in schools they start off learning the phonetics first (so you have TV spelling CAT as see ay tee and school teaching Kah a ta) There are loads of channels with educational programmes on for children here though which is fantastic. Course my daughter still prefers good ol Tom and Jerry though!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
It is ironic that the ANC always proclaimed that the excessive amounts spent by the Apartheid regime to buy weapons to kill blacks (according to them), would be used to build houses, schools and hospitals for the masses who were disenfranchised as soon as they came to power. They said that South Africa was not and would probably never be at war with any other country. And they were right.

Yet the ANC found it necessary to invest 60 Billion Rand in arms, including submarines for 8 Billion Rand, of which one's electric system blew up due to a marine who did some stupid thing and the others don't have trained marines to operate it. 300 Million was paid in bribes to politicians. It is estimated that 2 million houses could have been built and 100 000 low skill jobs for 10 years created with the arms deal money.

Now with 8 Billion, plus another yearly 8 Million to maintain these submarines, I'm sure they could build 5 star schools in every community nation wide, kit it out with the best technology money can buy, and feed & clothe each scholar with the best quality; provide security at all schools, and run them similar to the one Oprah is running in South Africa.

The minister of Basic Education yesterday announced that in the last 10 years, 1200 schools were built. They still need to build just over 3000, (so it would take more than 20 years to build the rest) but there is no budget available to do so. She asked private sector to foot the bill, not only for schools, but for the new health systems and roads too. Yet, government bailed out Denel with another 700 Million Rand, money that could have been used to educate children. Sies man...
 

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It is ironic that the ANC always proclaimed that the excessive amounts spent by the Apartheid regime to buy weapons to kill blacks (according to them), would be used to build houses, schools and hospitals for the masses who were disenfranchised as soon as they came to power. They said that South Africa was not and would probably never be at war with any other country. And they were right.

Yet the ANC found it necessary to invest 60 Billion Rand in arms, including submarines for 8 Billion Rand, of which one's electric system blew up due to a marine who did some stupid thing and the others don't have trained marines to operate it. 300 Million was paid in bribes to politicians. It is estimated that 2 million houses could have been built and 100 000 low skill jobs for 10 years created with the arms deal money.

Now with 8 Billion, plus another yearly 8 Million to maintain these submarines, I'm sure they could build 5 star schools in every community nation wide, kit it out with the best technology money can buy, and feed & clothe each scholar with the best quality; provide security at all schools, and run them similar to the one Oprah is running in South Africa.

The minister of Basic Education yesterday announced that in the last 10 years, 1200 schools were built. They still need to build just over 3000, (so it would take more than 20 years to build the rest) but there is no budget available to do so. She asked private sector to foot the bill, not only for schools, but for the new health systems and roads too. Yet, government bailed out Denel with another 700 Million Rand, money that could have been used to educate children. Sies man...
Suprisingly regarding my background, the only arms spend I disagree with you on is the Submarines, Its the only way to patrol and protect your Fishing Stocks from Poaching by the Koreans and Chinese.
They dont know you are there till you pop up next to them.
Ditto if the Somali Pirate problem spreads.

as to the comment about feeding schemes, it is/was in place until it was ripped off
and collapsed as a result of corruption.
I know they have been struggling to revive it
 

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Suprisingly regarding my background, the only arms spend I disagree with you on is the Submarines, Its the only way to patrol and protect your Fishing Stocks from Poaching by the Koreans and Chinese.
They dont know you are there till you pop up next to them.
Ditto if the Somali Pirate problem spreads.

as to the comment about feeding schemes, it is/was in place until it was ripped off
and collapsed as a result of corruption.
I know they have been struggling to revive it
i agree daxk. the somali pirate problem will spread south. at the moment it is confined to a small area in the entrance to the gulf. although the area is vast if you are looking at it in terms of the sea it is not. shipping tends to follow set tracks so is condensed. this makes it easy to target but also easy to patrol. the problem lies with the rules of engament making it difficult for navies to do ther job properly. as they increase the patrols and become more successful the pirates will look for new hunting grounds. once they have taken a ship it is very difficult to get them off.

Submarines are an excelent weapon against these pirates, but a submarine with an untrained crew is like a cow with a gun. a cheaper alternative would be high speed patrol craft, actualy the size of speed boats. easy to maintain and operate and cheap. they were very effective in the gulf war when used against nato shipping, the british navy bought several to help train there ships in tracking and destroying this type of vessel. these vessels would also be excelent for fisheries protection, small fast and hard to spot till it is to late.

Defence spending is such an emotive topic. Let me first state where i am comming from, i worked for 22 years in the ministry of defence. i saw the ravages of defence cuts on the uk navy. Ask a man on the street if he wants a hospital or a destroyer the answer is obvious. But if you havent got a destroyer how do you fight the pirates or protect your fishing industry, modern defence is not only about fighting other countries. four or five guys in a rowing boat could easily take an unarmed merchentman sat at anchor of of durban or cape town.
 

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i agree daxk. the somali pirate problem will spread south. at the moment it is confined to a small area in the entrance to the gulf. although the area is vast if you are looking at it in terms of the sea it is not. shipping tends to follow set tracks so is condensed. this makes it easy to target but also easy to patrol. the problem lies with the rules of engament making it difficult for navies to do ther job properly. as they increase the patrols and become more successful the pirates will look for new hunting grounds. once they have taken a ship it is very difficult to get them off.

Submarines are an excelent weapon against these pirates, but a submarine with an untrained crew is like a cow with a gun. a cheaper alternative would be high speed patrol craft, actualy the size of speed boats. easy to maintain and operate and cheap. they were very effective in the gulf war when used against nato shipping, the british navy bought several to help train there ships in tracking and destroying this type of vessel. these vessels would also be excelent for fisheries protection, small fast and hard to spot till it is to late.

Defence spending is such an emotive topic. Let me first state where i am comming from, i worked for 22 years in the ministry of defence. i saw the ravages of defence cuts on the uk navy. Ask a man on the street if he wants a hospital or a destroyer the answer is obvious. But if you havent got a destroyer how do you fight the pirates or protect your fishing industry, modern defence is not only about fighting other countries. four or five guys in a rowing boat could easily take an unarmed merchentman sat at anchor of of durban or cape town.
It does seem ironic that SA is spending so much money on defence and protecting themselves from "the enemies" when the true enemy appears to be coming from within! Such a shame as this country has so much potential.

Just to butt in here with absolutely no knowledge or understanding of the defence forces but wouldn't it be cost effective for private companies who do export / import and have ships at sea going to dangerous areas where pirating is going on - couldn't they employ personal armed guards in speedboats to travel alongside the ship and escort it to its destination ensuring that they have enough arms and ammunition to ward off any potential pirates? What about marine insurers - do they not have a vested interest in certain risk minimising steps being taken. Or if ships are docked at Cape Town / Durban they could, as you say Steven, use high speed patrol craft with private security and / or navy vessels. I am actually all for countries spending money on defence though because I think any sign of weakness in that regard is going to be taken advantage of by countries eager to get their hands on South African natural wealth - gold / diamonds / wildlife / fish etc - no idea how you are ever going to get around the corruption element though - awful!:(
 

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i agree daxk. the somali pirate problem will spread south. at the moment it is confined to a small area in the entrance to the gulf. although the area is vast if you are looking at it in terms of the sea it is not. shipping tends to follow set tracks so is condensed. this makes it easy to target but also easy to patrol. the problem lies with the rules of engament making it difficult for navies to do ther job properly. as they increase the patrols and become more successful the pirates will look for new hunting grounds. once they have taken a ship it is very difficult to get them off.

Submarines are an excelent weapon against these pirates, but a submarine with an untrained crew is like a cow with a gun. a cheaper alternative would be high speed patrol craft, actualy the size of speed boats. easy to maintain and operate and cheap. they were very effective in the gulf war when used against nato shipping, the british navy bought several to help train there ships in tracking and destroying this type of vessel. these vessels would also be excelent for fisheries protection, small fast and hard to spot till it is to late.

Defence spending is such an emotive topic. Let me first state where i am comming from, i worked for 22 years in the ministry of defence. i saw the ravages of defence cuts on the uk navy. Ask a man on the street if he wants a hospital or a destroyer the answer is obvious. But if you havent got a destroyer how do you fight the pirates or protect your fishing industry, modern defence is not only about fighting other countries. four or five guys in a rowing boat could easily take an unarmed merchentman sat at anchor of of durban or cape town.
Johanna, in case your finger gets itchy!this is on topic as it involves either or spending on infrastructure!!:)

Stevan, again, ordinarily I would agree with you, defence spending cuts are usually unproductive, but it also depends on what and how much, surely?

At the time (and since)SA was not facing any threat either Land or Sea Borne.
Its equipment although old, had been maintained and was serviceable in the event of a low scale civil unrest which was the only real threat (still is!).

It is an emotive issue, I agree. but at the time, for the time, SA needed more on education than it needed sophisticated fighter attack craft.

As to training,what has heartened me is that as the "old salts" from both sides have/are retired/ing, the new generation of soldiers who are doing it as a career rather than a legal requirement are being trained pretty well.
promotion, although skewed is being done on ability and nt political expediency.

I have been watching a young SADF Infantry Officer who has been sharing his experiences online via youtube for awhile now.

I would have been proud to command/serve with his troops.
I would assume that that follows through the other arms of the service.
he problem as always is money.
and education.
if kids dont have a future, there will be chaos.
 

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Johanna, in case your finger gets itchy!this is on topic as it involves either or spending on infrastructure!!:)


if kids dont have a future, there will be chaos.
You are quite correct Daxk, it is topical.


Education is a major problem in many countries, perhaps more so in SA than the UK, the children of this country have always been (ab)used by some or other political system.


:mad:
 

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You are quite correct Daxk, it is topical.


Education is a major problem in many countries, perhaps more so in SA than the UK, the children of this country have always been (ab)used by some or other political system.


:mad:
Indeed - UK education may not be brilliant but at least it is accessible to all and there is a lot of financial support for adult learning too. I was watching a documentary on TV the other night about a village in Wales where many kids leave high school with no qualifications at all..... how does that happen when they have been given every opportunity to learn. Weird. My mum is a retired school teacher living in a dorp outside of Cape Town. Between the age of 65 - 70 when she still wanted to teach she got involved in teaching local children of all ages in one class. She said these were kids who really really really wanted to learn and it was quite a contrast from her 20 years teaching in a government school in Zimbabwe and 15 years teaching in a private school in SA. :focus:
 

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very good points raised, Daxk & Steven. I just hope the driver of these subs have genuine drivers licenses. lol...
Because there's not much sunlight they get very pale....:D
I think the guys are very well trained and a very special type of person..
I once spent three days in one one, been claustrophobic ever since but then it was called the Maria van Riebeeck!:eek:
 

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Johanna, in case your finger gets itchy!this is on topic as it involves either or spending on infrastructure!!:)

Stevan, again, ordinarily I would agree with you, defence spending cuts are usually unproductive, but it also depends on what and how much, surely?

At the time (and since)SA was not facing any threat either Land or Sea Borne.
Its equipment although old, had been maintained and was serviceable in the event of a low scale civil unrest which was the only real threat (still is!).

It is an emotive issue, I agree. but at the time, for the time, SA needed more on education than it needed sophisticated fighter attack craft.

As to training,what has heartened me is that as the "old salts" from both sides have/are retired/ing, the new generation of soldiers who are doing it as a career rather than a legal requirement are being trained pretty well.
promotion, although skewed is being done on ability and nt political expediency.

I have been watching a young SADF Infantry Officer who has been sharing his experiences online via youtube for awhile now.

I would have been proud to command/serve with his troops.
I would assume that that follows through the other arms of the service.
he problem as always is money.
and education.
if kids dont have a future, there will be chaos.
i agree a multi million rand fighter jet aint gonna stop a riot in down town soweto (well it would but not in a good way). the trouble with defence cuts is they are usualy made by people who have no idea what they are trying to defend. this usualy results in the wrong thing being cut. Does south africa need 8 submarines. no not realy. buy a fleet of high speed patrol craft, protect the inshore waters and fishing industry. use the money saved to build hospitals or schools.

there is a ballance to be had and it is not easy.
 

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Because there's not much sunlight they get very pale....:D
I think the guys are very well trained and a very special type of person..
I once spent three days in one one, been claustrophobic ever since but then it was called the Maria van Riebeeck!:eek:
by very special i think you mean slightly mad. they are special breed (and they dont smell very nice either:D:D:D:D:D:D
 
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