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Some Greek Red Tape... The Registration Certificate - Βεβαίωση Eγγραφής
Βεβαίωση Eγγραφής (Vevaiosi Engrafis) - Registration Certificate
EU nationals staying longer than 3 months in Greece must hold this Certificate which will be open dated and so there will be no need for it to be renewed, subject to ongoing status conditions.
And now my story...
I have been working in Greece since September 2009, I have recently started a new job, I gave in my required papers.. (which already took a lot of pain to get) to my new employer, those being:
So then the new company send off my details to the Greek Manpower Office (OAED) in order to say I have been employed, however.. Greek Manpower Office (OAED) refused my papers stating that I also need to show a "Registration Certificate" (Βεβαίωση Eγγραφής - Vevaiosi Engrafis) which I don't have.
The new company are quite confused by all this baring in mind the company is very popular classifieds newspaper, and have lots of staff (which are also from other EU countries)..
However after consulting with my Embassy I am informed that this "Registration Certificate" IS REQUIRED for ALL EU nationals living and working in Greece.
In order to obtain it I required the following (in fact I have yet to obtain it... this is why I write this message)..
Yet to obtain this document I had to go to an office which was not simple to get to, and I had to get there AT 7am!! The office being on a road in Athens called Petrou Ralli 24.. so imagine, I had to get up at 6am just to get there on time because they will not see you after 7am, except this office is actually the Immigration or Aliens Office of Athens, so imagine when I get there and I am mixed in with all sorts of people from outside the EU all trying to get their papers.. I was treated no different and was put in a MASSIVE queue with families from all parts of the world...
Now in my mind I realised that my papers would not take so long, since I didn't require half the things the others in line needed to show. However when it came to my turn eventually after 1 hour (so make that 8am) I happily went up to the desk which (by the way only 2 desks were open for over 100 people) insane!!!!
But I kept asking myself.. "I come to Greece from another EU country, I want to work here, I supposedly want to pay my taxes here, but just please count all the papers that I have already had to obtain.. and now I am standing in the Immigration office with hundreds of others from all around the world, from all sorts of war torn and impoverished countries.. however I just thought.. what IS the point of the EU??
For example, in the UK you require a National Insurance Number and your Passport, you give this to the employer and then the rest is taken care of.
Now this "Registration Certificate" is purely a Greek law I have already checked if other EU countries make other EU nationals go through this process and I have not found one.
So.. back to my story.. I approach the desk happy that I have all I need.. "Passport." he demands, "Photos." he demands again, "Pou Meneis;" he asked rather demandingly.. "Why are you here?" he demands again, basically I am being interrogated as to my reason for being in this country!...
So I retort "I am from another EU country I have all my papers (which have already taken an arm and a leg to get) can you provide me with the "Βεβαίωση Eγγραφής - Vevaiosi Engrafis" and let's be done, because I have no time for being interrogated as to why I want to stay here, I am an EU national and I have a right to live and work here..."
He retorts back.. " Your tenancy agreement is fake"...
"Excuse me? Sygnomy?" I say confused way.. "It is not fake Sir" I can feel the hoard of people behind me getting agitated.
So I just left and got some advice from my Embassy who just told me to try again, possibly the person serving you was not in the greatest of moods, cause they said they documents I had are fine and in fact all I actually needed to show was my Passport and a letter from my Employer.
But that is Greece.. never simple. So again tomorrow I will wake up at 6am for round 2.
ROUND 2
Thanks for the messages guys, you are right, it is required however as you say, few EU citizens do it. In my case, I am being asked to do it by my employer and the OAED office.
So.. I woke up again today at 6:30am and made my way to the "Aliens Department"... arrival at 7:15am.
I entered and went to the desk, I was told that I was too late and they will not be able to process my application today.. too late???? Obviously I asked "Giati;"... the guy replies, "You need to have a number, but to get the number you must go to the other building behind this building..."
Things are getting confusing now, I had no number.. he continues.. "It is not allowed, because you have no number, but the number office closes at 7:10am".
I ask him.. "Can you please explain to me the whole process in detail, so I know."
"OK, you come at 6:30am you go the building behind this building, you queue and we will give you a number, you then take the number to this building we are in now, and collect the application form, then you go to office number 2 and wait for your number to be called, we will then check all of your documents, then you have to wait until maybe 3pm at which point sometime between 8am-3pm we will issue your "Registration Certificate", but you MUST come at 6:30am to get the first number, then you will not have to wait until 3pm..."
I asked the guy for his name... he replied "I am not allowed to give you it, to get my name you need to go to office 7 and ask them, they may give you my name"
I said "But what if I need to ask for you, or call you, or if I want to refer to you, you are a public servant, are you not? It is only right that you give me your name"
"It is not allowed" he replies.
I left, deciding that round 2 was another failed attempt.
Look, I understand I have to do this, but the way the Greeks set up the system in order to get this "Registration Certificate" is the problem, even if other EU countries require the same of other EU citizens.. I am sure without a doubt the process is a lot simpler, there are more offices, they provide signs and information in English (or other EU languages) they don't talk to you like some kind of immigrant from a war torn country who is seeking refuge, and most of all they don't require you to go from building to building at 6am in the morning!!!!!
Round 3 coming up.. I have been advised now to get a lawyer to do all of this on my behalf.. are there any other EU citizens here who have been living and working in Greece longer than 3 months, maybe we can all go together
we can make it an official MEETUP.
COMING SOON... ROUND 3
Βεβαίωση Eγγραφής (Vevaiosi Engrafis) - Registration Certificate
EU nationals staying longer than 3 months in Greece must hold this Certificate which will be open dated and so there will be no need for it to be renewed, subject to ongoing status conditions.
And now my story...
I have been working in Greece since September 2009, I have recently started a new job, I gave in my required papers.. (which already took a lot of pain to get) to my new employer, those being:
- Photocopy of Passport
- IKA Paper (National Insurance Number 1)
- AMKA Paper (National Insurance Number 2)
- AFM Paper (Tax Number)
- Tenancy Agreement
So then the new company send off my details to the Greek Manpower Office (OAED) in order to say I have been employed, however.. Greek Manpower Office (OAED) refused my papers stating that I also need to show a "Registration Certificate" (Βεβαίωση Eγγραφής - Vevaiosi Engrafis) which I don't have.
The new company are quite confused by all this baring in mind the company is very popular classifieds newspaper, and have lots of staff (which are also from other EU countries)..
However after consulting with my Embassy I am informed that this "Registration Certificate" IS REQUIRED for ALL EU nationals living and working in Greece.
In order to obtain it I required the following (in fact I have yet to obtain it... this is why I write this message)..
- 3 Photos of myself
- Letter from Employer which has to be stamped by the KEP office + 3 photocopies
- To show my Passport + 3 Photocopies of my passport
- My Tenancy Agreement again stamped by the TAX office + 3 photocopies
Yet to obtain this document I had to go to an office which was not simple to get to, and I had to get there AT 7am!! The office being on a road in Athens called Petrou Ralli 24.. so imagine, I had to get up at 6am just to get there on time because they will not see you after 7am, except this office is actually the Immigration or Aliens Office of Athens, so imagine when I get there and I am mixed in with all sorts of people from outside the EU all trying to get their papers.. I was treated no different and was put in a MASSIVE queue with families from all parts of the world...
Now in my mind I realised that my papers would not take so long, since I didn't require half the things the others in line needed to show. However when it came to my turn eventually after 1 hour (so make that 8am) I happily went up to the desk which (by the way only 2 desks were open for over 100 people) insane!!!!
But I kept asking myself.. "I come to Greece from another EU country, I want to work here, I supposedly want to pay my taxes here, but just please count all the papers that I have already had to obtain.. and now I am standing in the Immigration office with hundreds of others from all around the world, from all sorts of war torn and impoverished countries.. however I just thought.. what IS the point of the EU??
For example, in the UK you require a National Insurance Number and your Passport, you give this to the employer and then the rest is taken care of.
Now this "Registration Certificate" is purely a Greek law I have already checked if other EU countries make other EU nationals go through this process and I have not found one.
So.. back to my story.. I approach the desk happy that I have all I need.. "Passport." he demands, "Photos." he demands again, "Pou Meneis;" he asked rather demandingly.. "Why are you here?" he demands again, basically I am being interrogated as to my reason for being in this country!...
So I retort "I am from another EU country I have all my papers (which have already taken an arm and a leg to get) can you provide me with the "Βεβαίωση Eγγραφής - Vevaiosi Engrafis" and let's be done, because I have no time for being interrogated as to why I want to stay here, I am an EU national and I have a right to live and work here..."
He retorts back.. " Your tenancy agreement is fake"...
"Excuse me? Sygnomy?" I say confused way.. "It is not fake Sir" I can feel the hoard of people behind me getting agitated.
So I just left and got some advice from my Embassy who just told me to try again, possibly the person serving you was not in the greatest of moods, cause they said they documents I had are fine and in fact all I actually needed to show was my Passport and a letter from my Employer.
But that is Greece.. never simple. So again tomorrow I will wake up at 6am for round 2.
ROUND 2
Thanks for the messages guys, you are right, it is required however as you say, few EU citizens do it. In my case, I am being asked to do it by my employer and the OAED office.
So.. I woke up again today at 6:30am and made my way to the "Aliens Department"... arrival at 7:15am.
I entered and went to the desk, I was told that I was too late and they will not be able to process my application today.. too late???? Obviously I asked "Giati;"... the guy replies, "You need to have a number, but to get the number you must go to the other building behind this building..."
Things are getting confusing now, I had no number.. he continues.. "It is not allowed, because you have no number, but the number office closes at 7:10am".
I ask him.. "Can you please explain to me the whole process in detail, so I know."
"OK, you come at 6:30am you go the building behind this building, you queue and we will give you a number, you then take the number to this building we are in now, and collect the application form, then you go to office number 2 and wait for your number to be called, we will then check all of your documents, then you have to wait until maybe 3pm at which point sometime between 8am-3pm we will issue your "Registration Certificate", but you MUST come at 6:30am to get the first number, then you will not have to wait until 3pm..."
I asked the guy for his name... he replied "I am not allowed to give you it, to get my name you need to go to office 7 and ask them, they may give you my name"
I said "But what if I need to ask for you, or call you, or if I want to refer to you, you are a public servant, are you not? It is only right that you give me your name"
"It is not allowed" he replies.
I left, deciding that round 2 was another failed attempt.
Look, I understand I have to do this, but the way the Greeks set up the system in order to get this "Registration Certificate" is the problem, even if other EU countries require the same of other EU citizens.. I am sure without a doubt the process is a lot simpler, there are more offices, they provide signs and information in English (or other EU languages) they don't talk to you like some kind of immigrant from a war torn country who is seeking refuge, and most of all they don't require you to go from building to building at 6am in the morning!!!!!
Round 3 coming up.. I have been advised now to get a lawyer to do all of this on my behalf.. are there any other EU citizens here who have been living and working in Greece longer than 3 months, maybe we can all go together
COMING SOON... ROUND 3