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Excellent :D

Is it based on a recent WHO listing? I thought that I recalled France having dropped down a few places a year or two back?
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Excellent :D

Is it based on a recent WHO listing? I thought that I recalled France having dropped down a few places a year or two back?
I thought I had heard that, too. Maybe it's based on an earlier survey. It does seem a pretty polished video and I think that recent WHO listing has only been out for a week or two.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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Short term, its going to be great. Long Term its going to cost us all an arm and a leg.
It already costs us an arm and a leg -- at least 2x the nearest comparable. The idea is to stop it costing us more than a single arm.
 

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I have to say as a french expat in the US, I have encountered quite a bit of ignorance and disbelief of the so called socialized system.
The main profound difference of all I think is the fact that it is now widely accepted that health care is not a right it is a "benefit"...
I think in the whole capitalist, pick up yourself and work hard society, there is been a loss of clear vision of the current realities and what are priorities for one if not the most powerful nation in the world
it also kills me to think the debate is poisonned by the whole abortion issue (my tax $ will pay to kill a life!) but they have no issue with their neighbor not being able to get cancer treatment cause it is "not covered"...and leaving a family behind. There is such a big difference of scale!


Overall, I think people are under-informed or misinformed. They do not undertsand the concept of yes it will be expensive but it already is CRAZY expensive...I would be more than happy to pay more taxes if I dont have to worry about caughing up 10K for a child birth or have to worry about loosing my house while having cancer...Let's not even go the route of pre-existing conditions (I have some)

I am not a big fan of Michael Moore because of its style, but I have to say the first time I saw SICKO, I was just in tears and pieces at the movie theater.
not because the movie was so emotional (his arguments are not always that great and very often too bias to make a true point) but because I feel so bad for the people of America...I, as a french citizen, felt like I could always protect my family and if something was to happen I could figure something out, take a plane, and come back home and get treatment.
But I felt absolutely devastated for people that dont have that chance and see their family suffer in front of them without being able to do much.
 
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kirikara - thanks for the perspective from the pov of view of a French person living in the US. Health care as a "benefit" of being financially secure? There's something rather chilling about that perception - a society with (at least) two classes of citizen, in fact.
 

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kirikara - thanks for the perspective from the pov of view of a French person living in the US. Health care as a "benefit" of being financially secure? There's something rather chilling about that perception - a society with (at least) two classes of citizen, in fact.
Oh yes definitely... I have had conversations during the elections with people that just told me point blank "i don't want to pay for someone's else healthcare"
And then when I told them but healthcare is not something you can't save for like retirement, it is just too expensive and can happen anytime.. still nothing..

and then I tell them, but what about people that do work hard, do have insurance and still loose their home? One told me "oh yes that is bad. it happened to my aunt !.. but it was totally her fault she did not fill paperwork on time...."

I was speechless, and believe me that does not happen often!

To me it is such an anti-christian concept to refuse healthcare for all, I wonder how such a religious country can think it is ok.
I don't know how they succeed to twist issues in such weird way that it makes sense even though it does not?

Mostly I feel people are scared of what they don't know and are not bad people at all. they have good intents, they just don't have the understanding of the situation and politicians tend to exploit that.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
I'm in the US right now, and I have to admit the attitudes here always surprise/shock me on arrival. After almost 20 years of living in Europe, I tend to forget how much faith the Americans place in "the free markets" and "free enterprise" and how fearful they are of "big government."

The problem is that, from what I can tell of the current proposals on the table, they're really only talking about some minor regulation of the health insurance industry - and at that, new rules that would only benefit the insurance companies (i.e. that everyone would have to have insurance).

A huge part of the problem over here is that big companies (insurance, health care providers, etc.) have been left to charge whatever the market will bear - for drugs, for insurance, for treatment, etc. - in the all-American desire to get rich quick. Even with price caps on drugs in most other countries, I see very few pharmaceutical companies in any danger of not making huge profits - and drug prices could come way down in the US if they'd just stop taking out all those expensive TV ads to promote their latest variation of "popular" drugs. If insurers would simplify the claim process they could eliminate all the layers of claims processors and claims checkers, and thus lots of cost. The list goes on, but it means fewer jobs and big shot doctors and executives having to "make do" on somewhat lower salaries.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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Oh yes definitely... I have had conversations during the elections with people that just told me point blank "i don't want to pay for someone's else healthcare"
And then when I told them but healthcare is not something you can't save for like retirement, it is just too expensive and can happen anytime.. still nothing..

and then I tell them, but what about people that do work hard, do have insurance and still loose their home? One told me "oh yes that is bad. it happened to my aunt !.. but it was totally her fault she did not fill paperwork on time...."

I was speechless, and believe me that does not happen often!

To me it is such an anti-christian concept to refuse healthcare for all, I wonder how such a religious country can think it is ok.
I don't know how they succeed to twist issues in such weird way that it makes sense even though it does not?

Mostly I feel people are scared of what they don't know and are not bad people at all. they have good intents, they just don't have the understanding of the situation and politicians tend to exploit that.
These people will be the first ones demanding universal health care coverage as soon as their health care provider denies their medical claim based on "pre-existing conditions" or treatment that is recommended by their doctor but deemed non-essential and they have to pay out of pocket and go into debt.

My sense is the majority of Americans recognize the status quo is intolerable and something needs to be done, even among the Republicans. I see a lot of criticism from the opposition but little in the way of solutions. :sick:
 
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Interesting article in today's Guardian. It begins...

America's healthcare industry has spent hundreds of millions of dollars to block the introduction of public medical insurance and stall other reforms promised by Barack Obama. The campaign against the president has been waged in part through substantial donations to key politicians.

Supporters of radical reform of healthcare say legislation emerging from the US Senate reflects the financial power of vested interests ‑ principally insurance companies, pharmaceutical firms and hospitals ‑ that have worked to stop far-reaching changes threatening their profits.

The industry and interest groups have spent $380m (£238m) in recent months influencing healthcare legislation through lobbying, advertising and in direct political contributions to members of Congress. The largest contribution, totalling close to $1.5m, has gone to the chairman of the senate committee drafting the new law.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
It's the lobbyists and special interest groups that have the most to lose under any serious reform of the American health care system. The insurance industry is lusting after any plan that would mandate everyone having to buy health insurance - but they absolutely don't want to be mandated themselves to have to pay all claims, nor to have to insure any but the healthiest individuals.

Probably the biggest genuine threat to health care reform in the US is the loss of jobs that would be caused by the simplification of the claim process. Yet that's precisely what is needed in order to cut the cost of the system down to reasonable levels.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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It's the lobbyists and special interest groups that have the most to lose under any serious reform of the American health care system. The insurance industry is lusting after any plan that would mandate everyone having to buy health insurance - but they absolutely don't want to be mandated themselves to have to pay all claims, nor to have to insure any but the healthiest individuals.

Cheers,
Bev
As a means of helping to fund universal health care, all the proposals under consideration include mandatory participation with penalties for non-compliance. Exceptions are provided for hardship cases. A good number of healthy young people are uninsured as many don't see the need for it this point in their lives. This is a means of getting them to participate and generating revenue for the plan.

There is now a Democrat proposal for universal health care to include illegal aliens (Remember Joe Wilson's "You Lie" Outburst During Obama's speech? This is what the so called lie was referring to.) . The argument is; we're already providing care to them. When an illegal alien goes to an emergency room, he's receives treatment and isn't turned away. It costs more to treat patients this way as compared to treatment under a plan and we'll save money in the long run by including them. Makes sense to me but this is bound to create a firestorm of debate. En Gard! :fencing:
 

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healthcare

As many of you may already know, there is a huge debate (politest term I can think of) in progress in the US over proposed changes to the health care system there. The air is thick with all sorts of misinformation about various "foreign" health care systems and their alleged failures - mostly involving the Canadian and UK systems (largely because all the information is available in English, I guess).

Over in the Canadian section, someone from the States has asked the question, "Gee is the Canadian system as bad as what we're hearing?" and I thought it might be interesting to throw the question out to the wider pool of expats here - especially those of you who know the American health care system and can make some useful comparisons - either to your system back home or to other systems you've lived under.

Is socialized medicine as bad as it is being portrayed in the US? (What the heck IS "socialized medicine" anyhow?) Do US expats yearn for their "free market" system back home, or do you wonder (as I do) if and how the folks back home lost their collective minds with all the idiotic objections they are raising to the prospect of a universal health care system?

For the expats in the US, would you like to see a national health care system implemented? What features from your home system would you like to see (or not) in the US plan?
Cheers,
Bev
Hi I am a baby boomer from britain born into the nhs, which was the greatest health care system in the world, until immigration exploited and destroyed it. I feel the system started to fail when other countries got to know they could come to britain, get benefits right away and free medical care. I am all for helping any third world country but feel charity begins at home and when our own nationals cannot get help because the system is overstretched, then I think something has gone wrong. I am now living in Canada, and have just found out my husbands medication is going to cost us nearly $300 per month???? It was free in britain. I would love to see a kind of national health service here and in the usa, but it must be done properly, and anyone coming into the country should have to work and pay into the system before being intitled to free health care, and certainly not be entitled to housing or benifits at the cost to local people. I also beleive this starts to cause resentment to the immigrant and the situation can blow up, I have seen it happen in Britain, in short your own people must be taken care of first and foremost everyone else later, then and only then will it work and not be exploited. hope I havent been too long winded:ranger:
 

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healthcare

It is interesting you ask this as I have been following the "debate" with great interest!!

As a healthcare professional, IMHO the US healthcare system is horrible!! It really is the worst for the lower middle class - those with jobs but make too much money to get Medicaid and not enough to pay the exhorbant health insurance prices!!

And then when people can't afford health insurance - where do they go? The ER - for constipation, because they broke a tooth....... well, you get it. This overburdens a system that is already at a breaking point. And even if you have insurance, heck you could go bankrupt with just one major illness like cancer.

And our litigous society makes healthcare expensive also - doctors order totally inappropriate tests just because they are afraid of being sued.

While we have "good" knowledge and techniques and standards in healthcare, it is just too expensive for the masses. The "implementation" of our healthcare is in the toilet.

So, do I think we need healthcare reform? You bet!!
I have to agree with you, the " ambulance chasers" have ruined the usa and has now spread to the united kingdom, I already see a difference in the culture I grew up in simple thing like playing rope in school now its not allowed in case a child falls and their families sue the school. CRAZY this never happened in the 60's 70's but started creeping in in the 80's It is going to bankrupt the system in Britain just like the usa, the claim culture needs to be adressed and the payouts reduced the millions being payed out is over the top:, you certainly would not get it in spain or any other country that I know of:boxing:
 

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Discussion Starter #35
In the US and UK, everyone seems to want to blame the "immigrants" for the problems with the healthcare system. Just remember that this forum is made up of immigrants, many of whom are responsible and contributing members of the societies we have immigrated to.

In the US, at least, it's not just the immigrants, but also the young healthy people who are allowed to skimp on health insurance who overload the system when they do get sick or have accidents and wind up using the emergency rooms when they should have had access to a regular doctor all along. (It speaks also to the whole issue of the cost of medical care in the US - why a simple doctor visit costs, what, $80 - $120, while in France it's 22€.)

I do wonder at the systems that cover everyone within their borders - the UK, and apparently Italy. Most systems (even the "socialized" ones) require some level of contribution - through work or whatever benefits system one is on. Of course there is provision for people who aren't covered for any reason, but in an organized manner than can be somewhat controlled. When I was receiving unemployment in Germany, there was a small deduction from my payment for health care and other social insurances, so that my coverage was maintained while I looked for work. It seemed an excellent idea back then, and still does.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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I've not been following this thread, nor have I read every post, so forgive me if I'm going off at a tangent. I just want to say that the NHS in the UK is totally in the pockets of the major pharmaceutical industries. IMO, there are simply squillions of pounds in pointless medications being doled out that quite frankly do nothing for anyone apart from the big businesses. They simply makes huge profits and costs the tax payers and their health.

I suspect thats the plan in the US - and the rest of the world eventually!

If you look at it, an example is the obesity epidemic. Rather than stop the problem at source and make the food manufacturers (who are making millions) use less sugar, chemicals, artificial products which are known to cause detrimental health issues, such as obesity, heart disease, diabetes and many more illnesses, they allow them to continue to pump nations full of their junk and then the pharma industries comes along with medication to try to rectify the problems they are causing - what a great money spinnner for everyone! The pharma industry is doing this with almost every aspect of human health with their vaccines, health scare solutions, treatments for ...... well whatever you can think of!

I hope I'm not straying too much off topic, but this is actually something I feel so strongly about!!!

I'll shut up and go away now!!! LOL

Jo xxx
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Not at all, Jo, you're actually very much on topic.

One of the big "concerns" in the US is that of putting any sort of restrictions on the big pharma companies. Too many people think that, without huge profits, all further "research" will come to an immediate halt. Unfortunately, most of the research seems to be directed at variations of existing medications that will simply allow the pharma companies to hold onto their monopoly (i.e. patent) for another several years.

There is a big issue of "orphan diseases" in the US - those diseases that are rare enough that even were they to find a treatment or cure, there isn't enough profit in selling it to the few people who would benefit. Yet, as you say, the drug companies go on, looking to find a pill that will cure obesity or get rid of wrinkles, or keep blood pressure down, no matter what sort of junk food you ingest or how little you get up and simply move around.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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In the US and UK, everyone seems to want to blame the "immigrants" for the problems with the healthcare system. Just remember that this forum is made up of immigrants, many of whom are responsible and contributing members of the societies we have immigrated to.

In the US, at least, it's not just the immigrants, but also the young healthy people who are allowed to skimp on health insurance who overload the system when they do get sick or have accidents and wind up using the emergency rooms when they should have had access to a regular doctor all along. (It speaks also to the whole issue of the cost of medical care in the US - why a simple doctor visit costs, what, $80 - $120, while in France it's 22€.)

I do wonder at the systems that cover everyone within their borders - the UK, and apparently Italy. Most systems (even the "socialized" ones) require some level of contribution - through work or whatever benefits system one is on. Of course there is provision for people who aren't covered for any reason, but in an organized manner than can be somewhat controlled. When I was receiving unemployment in Germany, there was a small deduction from my payment for health care and other social insurances, so that my coverage was maintained while I looked for work. It seemed an excellent idea back then, and still does.
Cheers,
Bev
Can I just say I am not a racist person and agree we are all immigrants, however, I am now a Canadian Citizen and have just returned after 26 years, so I have to wait the 3 months before I can get OHIP again, I accept that, also I have no chance of getting any benifits as I have not paid into the system for so long, nor do I feel I deserve any, and that is my point, If immigrants come to Britain, they firstly should have a job to come to as we had to have to originally get into canada, there should be no handouts until they have paid into the sytem for some time, and certainly no housing, they should have enough money to cover their stay until they are self sufficant, like my husband and I had to do, that is not discrimination, just justice, also when my husband came on his own to get a job to get into Canada, I had to stay at home to have my baby as we would not have been covered in Canada, we were prepared to do that to achieve our goal. I just feel Britain has become a soft touch with the nhs ect and it is taken advantage of
 
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