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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi all

Grateful for any advice on this question:
  • Many employers require the potential employee to have the right to work in NZ whereas under the SMC, 50 points (which I need since I cannot get any other points) come from having a job offer in the skilled professions. How do people who have successfully applied for SMC and obtained their points via the job offer route navigated around this problem? Any tips or suggestions? If it helps, I am a solicitor qualified in Singapore.
  • Since the EOI may take a while to get approved and there is some time given to make the application if the Invitation to Apply arrives, is it worthwhile to indicate that there is a valid job offer (even if there is none at the time of making the EOI application)?
  • Has anyone considered applying to Australia under the 189 category and moving to NZ to work (since having the permanent residence visa from Australia grants the visa holder the right to work in NZ) to accumulate the relevant experience in NZ and then apply for the SMC after obtaining the requisite points? Any thoughts on potential drawbacks?
  • Also related to question 3 above, to obtain 50 points under "Current skilled employment in New Zealand for less than 12 months", is there a minimum period that INZ is thinking about? Is one week, for example, sufficient?

Thanks in advance. Any general tips would also be welcome.
 

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Hi,

(1) Yes. Many employers do require a potential employee to have the right to live and work in NZ before they become a consideration for employment and in my experience these employers are from industries where there isn't any great difficulty finding the experienced staff already in the country and able to work. The skills required for these industries may well be in demand and the occupations may well be on the skill shortage list, but doesn't necessarily mean it is difficult for these industries to find appropriately skilled people who already have the right to live and work in NZ.
On the flip side of the coin, there are a number of industries where it is very difficult to find the skill and experience already here in NZ and in these cases the employer looks further afield to find that skill and experience so in these cases an overseas applicant has a good chance of finding work from overseas with the visa coming later. These employers will also be fully conversant with the Immigration process.
I'd assume that a solicitor does not fall into the latter category as I expect there are many people already here in NZ who have the skills, experience and qualifications to pick up solicitor vacancies or there are sufficient people studying to be a solicitor ?
I wouldn't class that industry as being in urgent need of overseas recruitment.
With that said a UK friend came here at the same time as me in early 2012 simply due to him getting the offer of a job as a solicitor in Wellington and with that offer he obtained a temporary work visa and then applied for a Resident visa at a later stage.

As a solicitor and having the skills, experience and qualifications I'd say you should have a pretty healthy points score on the EOI - you state you cannot get any other points other than the 50 points for a job offer. What points do you have now, without the job offer ?

You cannot apply EOI with a job offer if you haven't got a job offer. It would not prove favorable to your application if, after ITA you could then not provide the written evidence of a job offer since it never existed..... Are you sure you're a solicitor ?

I'm sure there are many people who have the intention to live and work in NZ but for one reason or another are finding it difficult to obtain a visa so they look at the Australia route to get in to NZ. If you do it this way, you would not need to apply for Resident Visa via SMC on arrival in NZ with the Australia Category 189 visa - it would be given to you as you cross the border as holders of Australian Permanent Residency will be granted NZ resident visa on entry (assuming they meet the criteria).

"Are you now in ongoing skilled employment in New Zealand but that employment has been for less than 12 months?".....you would select YES to this question on the EOI, if you are NOW in NZ and working in a skilled job and you have been in that job for less than 12 months.
If you have been in NZ and worked in a skilled job previously, for a week, a month etc you are not eligible for these points.
To tick YES to any question in the first part of the Points Indicator or EOI, you must either :-
Be living and working in NZ NOW in a skilled job.
OR
Have the written offer of a skilled job in NZ and you are overseas.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi,

(1) Yes. Many employers do require a potential employee to have the right to live and work in NZ before they become a consideration for employment and in my experience these employers are from industries where there isn't any great difficulty finding the experienced staff already in the country and able to work. The skills required for these industries may well be in demand and the occupations may well be on the skill shortage list, but doesn't necessarily mean it is difficult for these industries to find appropriately skilled people who already have the right to live and work in NZ.
On the flip side of the coin, there are a number of industries where it is very difficult to find the skill and experience already here in NZ and in these cases the employer looks further afield to find that skill and experience so in these cases an overseas applicant has a good chance of finding work from overseas with the visa coming later. These employers will also be fully conversant with the Immigration process.
I'd assume that a solicitor does not fall into the latter category as I expect there are many people already here in NZ who have the skills, experience and qualifications to pick up solicitor vacancies or there are sufficient people studying to be a solicitor ?
I wouldn't class that industry as being in urgent need of overseas recruitment.
With that said a UK friend came here at the same time as me in early 2012 simply due to him getting the offer of a job as a solicitor in Wellington and with that offer he obtained a temporary work visa and then applied for a Resident visa at a later stage.

As a solicitor and having the skills, experience and qualifications I'd say you should have a pretty healthy points score on the EOI - you state you cannot get any other points other than the 50 points for a job offer. What points do you have now, without the job offer ?

You cannot apply EOI with a job offer if you haven't got a job offer. It would not prove favorable to your application if, after ITA you could then not provide the written evidence of a job offer since it never existed..... Are you sure you're a solicitor ?

I'm sure there are many people who have the intention to live and work in NZ but for one reason or another are finding it difficult to obtain a visa so they look at the Australia route to get in to NZ. If you do it this way, you would not need to apply for Resident Visa via SMC on arrival in NZ with the Australia Category 189 visa - it would be given to you as you cross the border as holders of Australian Permanent Residency will be granted NZ resident visa on entry (assuming they meet the criteria).

"Are you now in ongoing skilled employment in New Zealand but that employment has been for less than 12 months?".....you would select YES to this question on the EOI, if you are NOW in NZ and working in a skilled job and you have been in that job for less than 12 months.
If you have been in NZ and worked in a skilled job previously, for a week, a month etc you are not eligible for these points.
To tick YES to any question in the first part of the Points Indicator or EOI, you must either :-
Be living and working in NZ NOW in a skilled job.
OR
Have the written offer of a skilled job in NZ and you are overseas.
Hi escapedtonz

Thanks for your long replies, much appreciated.

Please allow me to address your points raised:
(1) Understood your demand/supply analysis which is also what I suspected. I was wondering however if there are certain things you say to employers in NZ about visa/working status that may enable a job offer to be made subject to the work visa being granted. I will be most grateful if you can please put me in touch with that friend of yours? I've been looking for someone with that sort of profile.

I've about 90 points thereabouts. With that job offer, I will meet the 140 points threshold.

About the EOI and job offer point, my point is that as it takes some time before the Invitation to Apply arrives, it buys precious time to search for a job and obtain a job offer subject to visa being granted. Otherwise, the prospective employer may have to wait for quite a while from application of EOI till grant of visa under the SMC.

(2) Thanks, that's my understanding too but was wondering if anybody knew of the practical difficulties (other than the 'expiry' of the visa after 5 years).

(4) Can I check where's the reference for this line "Have the written offer of a skilled job in NZ and you are overseas."? Thanks. Also, agree with the "NOW" emphasis; where I was coming from is that if I get the 189 Australian visa, that will enable me to work in NZ and on the assumption that I've a job offer, then I would satisfy this requirement and therefore obtain the points under the INZ SMC points system. If this understanding is correct, then my question was whether there was a minimum duration or is 1 week of working in NZ sufficient to obtain these points?

Thanks once again. :)
 

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Hi escapedtonz

Thanks for your long replies, much appreciated.

Please allow me to address your points raised:
(1) Understood your demand/supply analysis which is also what I suspected. I was wondering however if there are certain things you say to employers in NZ about visa/working status that may enable a job offer to be made subject to the work visa being granted. I will be most grateful if you can please put me in touch with that friend of yours? I've been looking for someone with that sort of profile.

I've about 90 points thereabouts. With that job offer, I will meet the 140 points threshold.

About the EOI and job offer point, my point is that as it takes some time before the Invitation to Apply arrives, it buys precious time to search for a job and obtain a job offer subject to visa being granted. Otherwise, the prospective employer may have to wait for quite a while from application of EOI till grant of visa under the SMC.

(2) Thanks, that's my understanding too but was wondering if anybody knew of the practical difficulties (other than the 'expiry' of the visa after 5 years).

(4) Can I check where's the reference for this line "Have the written offer of a skilled job in NZ and you are overseas."? Thanks. Also, agree with the "NOW" emphasis; where I was coming from is that if I get the 189 Australian visa, that will enable me to work in NZ and on the assumption that I've a job offer, then I would satisfy this requirement and therefore obtain the points under the INZ SMC points system. If this understanding is correct, then my question was whether there was a minimum duration or is 1 week of working in NZ sufficient to obtain these points?

Thanks once again. :)
(1) You can explain to a prospective employer that you need a job offer in order to get a work visa. It won't harm your job application and may swing them on your side. It's worth a shot ?
Unable to put you in touch with my friend. He has left back to the UK. He only lasted 2 years here. He came with his family for a better work/life balance but it just didn't happen. He was working for a major solicitor firm in Wellington CBD dealing in corporate law. The job promised less hours than he did in the UK and a much better work/life balance. That lasted around 6 months and after this time he was doing just as much work here as back in the UK with his wife alone at home with the kids and no support so they decided it wasn't any better here so returned to their old life.

If you do land a job offer, you and the employer don't have to wait for the Resident Visa to be processed. You can also use the job offer to get an essential skills temporary work visa. These take around 2 - 4 weeks to process and allow immediate travel to live and work in the job. Once granted you must travel within 3 months. They can be granted for up to 5 years depending on the length of the job offer. You can also have the Resident Visa via SMC application ticking along in the background.

(2) Don't know of any practical difficulties.

(4) Unsure if this is written anywhere. Maybe in the Operations Manual ?
I don't really understand where you are coming from regarding the 189 Australian visa. If you obtained one of these and used it to gain entry in to NZ, then a Resident Visa application via SMC is irrelevant. You wouldn't need to apply. NZ Immigration would hand you a Resident Visa at the border on production of your 189 Australian visa assuming you met the criteria and pledged that you intend to live in NZ.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
(1) You can explain to a prospective employer that you need a job offer in order to get a work visa. It won't harm your job application and may swing them on your side. It's worth a shot ?
Unable to put you in touch with my friend. He has left back to the UK. He only lasted 2 years here. He came with his family for a better work/life balance but it just didn't happen. He was working for a major solicitor firm in Wellington CBD dealing in corporate law. The job promised less hours than he did in the UK and a much better work/life balance. That lasted around 6 months and after this time he was doing just as much work here as back in the UK with his wife alone at home with the kids and no support so they decided it wasn't any better here so returned to their old life.

If you do land a job offer, you and the employer don't have to wait for the Resident Visa to be processed. You can also use the job offer to get an essential skills temporary work visa. These take around 2 - 4 weeks to process and allow immediate travel to live and work in the job. Once granted you must travel within 3 months. They can be granted for up to 5 years depending on the length of the job offer. You can also have the Resident Visa via SMC application ticking along in the background.

(2) Don't know of any practical difficulties.

(4) Unsure if this is written anywhere. Maybe in the Operations Manual ?
I don't really understand where you are coming from regarding the 189 Australian visa. If you obtained one of these and used it to gain entry in to NZ, then a Resident Visa application via SMC is irrelevant. You wouldn't need to apply. NZ Immigration would hand you a Resident Visa at the border on production of your 189 Australian visa assuming you met the criteria and pledged that you intend to live in NZ.
(1) Thanks for the advice; I may raise that to potential employers although I am worried that they may be put off by visa requirements.

Regarding your friend, possible to put me through to him? I would like to understand in greater detail the pressures he faced, hours worked, the firm that he went to etc and most importantly his experience. Would be very very helpful to hear from his perspective.

Regarding the temporary visa, I think it might be hard given that a labour test needs to be conducted? Do correct me if I am wrong; I was under the impression that that visa was intended for workers with skills on the skills shortage list.

(4) I asked that only because you quoted that in your initial reply so I was interested in the source!

As for 189, the idea was that getting that will provide the right to work in NZ (and thereby obtain job offers). Thereafter, I can then get points under the SMC for working in NZ and thereafter obtain a visa under the SMC for permanent residency in NZ. The 189 visa may seem an easier way to obtain only because there are no requirements for a job offer and I can possibly meet the minimum requirements to get an invitation to apply.

You have been most helpful. Hope you can try to put me in touch with your friend! Thanks!
 
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