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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Stravinsky

I've addressed this query to you as I know you live in the Oliva area. Are there many signs of the crisis and poverty in Oliva? We were there about 5 weeks ago and everything looked fairly normal.

Do you have any idea how many Brits or other ex-pats live in that area? I would like to move to a typically Spanish area but with a few foreigners who can speak English (or French or German maybe) for when my Spanish gives up the ghost:D
 

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Hi Stravinsky

I've addressed this query to you as I know you live in the Oliva area. Are there many signs of the crisis and poverty in Oliva? We were there about 5 weeks ago and everything looked fairly normal.

Do you have any idea how many Brits or other ex-pats live in that area? I would like to move to a typically Spanish area but with a few foreigners who can speak English (or French or German maybe) for when my Spanish gives up the ghost:D
Your first sentence describes it. I dont really see any difference between now and 5 years ago. However, I know there is a difference because a local builder now works in our local bar. There are, maybe, a few more beggars outside the supermarket.

But visually, nothing is really different. Cant explain why ... I just dont know

How many expats ... I'm not sure, although I guess there are more in the old town because the houses are cheaper up there

I cant remember ...... are you buying or renting? A really nice place has just gone up for sale nearby
 
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I know you probably meant it in an entirely different way, and some might think I need kicking into touch for saying this, but isn`t that a bit crass?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Your first sentence describes it. I dont really see any difference between now and 5 years ago. However, I know there is a difference because a local builder now works in our local bar. There are, maybe, a few more beggars outside the supermarket.

But visually, nothing is really different. Cant explain why ... I just dont know

How many expats ... I'm not sure, although I guess there are more in the old town because the houses are cheaper up there

I cant remember ...... are you buying or renting? A really nice place has just gone up for sale nearby

We would prefer to buy, but are thinking of waiting about a year to see how the property market goes - most people seem to think that prices have not bottomed out yet and are likely to go down another 20%+. We will only be spending up to 60000 Euros as we will be keeping our house in the UK and living off my pension + the balance of our capital. I have been told that some of the areas in Oliva are not good and that's why they are cheap but have no idea which these 'bad' areas are. I quite fancy an old town house and amazingly there are some available in our price range. I wouldn't mind a flat as they are ligher and airier but am concerned about community charges which can be a bit of an unknown quantity.

We will probably come out on holiday some time and have a good look around. there seem to be a lot of properties on the market that seem to be sticking.

There was a group of Brits in a bar on one of the squares at the lower end of the old town having a jam session on their guitars when we were there, so we know there are some British ex-pats. Can't remember the name of the bar but the owner was a very nice lady (originally from the Balkans I think) who was really friendly:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Signs of poverty/crisis in Oliva

I know you probably meant it in an entirely different way, and some might think I need kicking into touch for saying this, but isn`t that a bit crass?
Hi Jossa

I assume you were referring to my penultimate post. Sorry if it came out as crass! I was not trying to say that I prefer the company of the locals to British or other ex-pats - merely that I would prefer to live in a typically Spanish area. Hope that explains what I meant to say better:)
 

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Wannabe Expat,
I think the problem is that you have fallen into the trap of saying you are looking for a 'typically Spanish' area.
Many people on here will tell you that typically Spanish is very hard to define and that even an area where there are many immigrants will still be predominantly Spanish in many ways.
But having said that, I'm sure we really know what you mean! :)

You want to enjoy your time in Spain living among the local Spanish population, but realise that it helps at times to be able to talk to other immigrants to the area.

I also realise how difficult it is trying to work out what an area will be like (in any country, not just Spain) before you live there.
And that's why many here would recommend that you rent first. Then at least you can move if you don't like the area you have chosen and try again elsewhere.

So, I think you have chosen the correct option to rent for a year and wait and see on property values.
There is very little chance (if any!) of property prices rising in the near future, so I'm sure that your 60,000 euros will still get you a decent, smallish property in a years time, or even later.
And you will have time to get to know the local estate agents and look for private property sales.
 

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Hi Jossa

I assume you were referring to my penultimate post. Sorry if it came out as crass! I was not trying to say that I prefer the company of the locals to British or other ex-pats - merely that I would prefer to live in a typically Spanish area. Hope that explains what I meant to say better:)
The problem is that over the years nearly all Brits have wanted to move to a typically Spanish area, so they have. The consequence of that is that the "so called" typically Spanish areas have become diluted and not typically Spanish (whatever that is these days). Couple that with the fact that the Spanish are now european. These areas you are looking for arent really how you think they are.

Dont forget that you are British, you will subconsciously gravitate towards Britishness. Interestingly the most "typically spanish" towns/pueblos I can think of are inhabited by mainly expats lol!!!!


Jo xxx
 

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Is Dover 'British'? Or Rochdale? Or Birmingham?

Benidorm is as Spanish as the remotest pueblo. As is Lavenham as English as Leicester.
They all represent different types of 'Spanishness' or' Englishness', whatever is meant by those concepts.

The second a couple of British immigrants arrive in a tiny village they impact on its 'authenticity' . That's life all over the EU in the twenty-first century.

To get back to your original point: local unemployment is officially at 34% here, but I suspect it is over 40%.
But there are no riots or civil disorder.
But there are beggars -Spanish beggars - on the streets. There is rising crime. There is resentment of job-seeking immigrants. There is anti-immigrant graffiti. The local Caritas branch is opening a comedor social (soup kitchen). Fliers appear on lampposts offering work at degrading hourly rates. People are coming to our kennels distraught asking us to take much-loved pets they can no longer afford to properly care for. People are buying cigarettes in twos and threes.
And more.
All this a mere short drive from the 'Golden Mile' and the fleshpots (and boarded-up shops and bars) of Marbella.
People have to eat so yes, supermarkets will be full. Shopping centres may be crowded - what do people do on a day out these days? Go shopping - but sales are down.
I think it depends how closely you are in touch with the Spanish economy rather than the Brit immigrant economy. I get feedback not only from our perrera but our 100% Spanish charity shop. I also live in a house on a street in a Spanish area and get daily updates from my neighbours on how things are.
But when I socialise with British, German or Dutch friends the mood and picture are completely different. These people have money to spend. Restaurants which cater for immigrants seem to be doing OK if not brilliantly.
Then there is of course the black economy which keeps many unemployed people from real poverty.
 

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Is Dover 'British'? Or Rochdale? Or Birmingham?

Benidorm is as Spanish as the remotest pueblo. As is Lavenham as English as Leicester.
They all represent different types of 'Spanishness' or' Englishness', whatever is meant by those concepts.

The second a couple of British immigrants arrive in a tiny village they impact on its 'authenticity' . That's life all over the EU in the twenty-first century.

To get back to your original point: local unemployment is officially at 34% here, but I suspect it is over 40%.
But there are no riots or civil disorder.
But there are beggars -Spanish beggars - on the streets. There is rising crime. There is resentment of job-seeking immigrants. There is anti-immigrant graffiti. The local Caritas branch is opening a comedor social (soup kitchen). Fliers appear on lampposts offering work at degrading hourly rates. People are coming to our kennels distraught asking us to take much-loved pets they can no longer afford to properly care for. People are buying cigarettes in twos and threes.
And more.
All this a mere short drive from the 'Golden Mile' and the fleshpots (and boarded-up shops and bars) of Marbella.
People have to eat so yes, supermarkets will be full. Shopping centres may be crowded - what do people do on a day out these days? Go shopping - but sales are down.
I think it depends how closely you are in touch with the Spanish economy rather than the Brit immigrant economy. I get feedback not only from our perrera but our 100% Spanish charity shop. I also live in a house on a street in a Spanish area and get daily updates from my neighbours on how things are.
But when I socialise with British, German or Dutch friends the mood and picture are completely different. These people have money to spend. Restaurants which cater for immigrants seem to be doing OK if not brilliantly.
Then there is of course the black economy which keeps many unemployed people from real poverty.
I agree. I don't think the amount of people in supermarkets and shoppping centres reflects the impact of the crisis, for the reasons that you give. It may do in the UK, I don't know. People have to eat and usually go to supermarkets to get their food. What they are buying is more telling and I believe there has been a pretty big increase in the sale of own brand goods. And shopping centres. Here many people see a trip to the shopping centre as something to do - I don't know about in other countries. Also, as I've said before, those who've got money have actually got increased spending power as prices of clothes have either stabilised or gone down, you can get holiday bargains by the bin full, cars are as cheap as chips compared to a couple of years ago... It's true that petrol and electricity have gone up considerably too, though.
I think you can see effects of the crisis in bars, shops that close down, who's in the park with the kids at playtime, the price of a menu del día, the price of houses, the number of kids who are staying on at school - things other than supermarkets and shops.
 

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I wonder if the richer immigrants will be resented as well as the poor ones who take Spanish jobs. On the face of it they should be welcomed as they bring much needed money to the area but it doesn't always work like that...
 

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I wonder if the richer immigrants will be resented as well as the poor ones who take Spanish jobs. On the face of it they should be welcomed as they bring much needed money to the area but it doesn't always work like that...
I think that will largely depend on their behaviour. We live in a big house in a 'nice' area but we are in no way 'rich' as in 'affluent'. We have no wealth to flaunt. Because living in this house takes up a large proportion of our income we have a modest lifestyle.
We eat in local cafes and restaurants, our LandRover is rather battered from the perrera trips -you know all about that, Simon! - we speak Spanish, albeit ungrammatically and we don't get pissed and bare our backsides in public (thank God for that, you may think, having met us...)

People who order waiters or shop assistants about loudly in English, behave in a way that many Spaniards consider shocking or at least immodest and act as if they were in Dorking or Dagenham imo deserve to be resented by Spanish people.

I resent them!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Wannabe Expat,
I think the problem is that you have fallen into the trap of saying you are looking for a 'typically Spanish' area.
Many people on here will tell you that typically Spanish is very hard to define and that even an area where there are many immigrants will still be predominantly Spanish in many ways.
But having said that, I'm sure we really know what you mean! :)

You want to enjoy your time in Spain living among the local Spanish population, but realise that it helps at times to be able to talk to other immigrants to the area.

I also realise how difficult it is trying to work out what an area will be like (in any country, not just Spain) before you live there.
And that's why many here would recommend that you rent first. Then at least you can move if you don't like the area you have chosen and try again elsewhere.

So, I think you have chosen the correct option to rent for a year and wait and see on property values.
There is very little chance (if any!) of property prices rising in the near future, so I'm sure that your 60,000 euros will still get you a decent, smallish property in a years time, or even later.
And you will have time to get to know the local estate agents and look for private property sales.
Yes - got it in one:) Unfortunately though we are still stuck in the UK and I will be working full time for about a year or so before we move. I am trying to work out some sort of provisional budget but seem to be finding conflicting information online about the income tax allowances. Will investigate further! I think we will probably holiday in the area again before making the move and have also got a contact in Oliva - the owner of the flat we rented in the old town in Oliva recently. She's really friendly and helpful.
 
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You`d be surprised at what 60K would get you around here. Well, apart from 60,000 bottles of Alhambra, there quite a few properties around that price.

Mmm Alhambra...
 

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You`d be surprised at what 60K would get you around here. Well, apart from 60,000 bottles of Alhambra, there quite a few properties around that price.

Mmm Alhambra...
The stuff in the green bottles? Careful with that - it's strong:eek:

Yep - you can pick up a village house around here for that - might need a bit doing to it. Wait a bit longer and there will be many more at that price.:(
 

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Why oh why did my son and dil choose to buy property in one of the most expensive areas in Andalucia.......That's why we are here, because we used their house as a base until we found our own.....
Houses go for 600000 euros or more round here.
It's a nice area, true, but so are many other areas.....which are obviously not as expensive.

Even an adosado with two bedrooms will sell for up to 200000 euros. Pisos going at 250000 euros upwards.

But I've noticed no-one seems to be buying....and the number for sale increases almost weekly.
 

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Why oh why did my son and dil choose to buy property in one of the most expensive areas in Andalucia.......That's why we are here, because we used their house as a base until we found our own.....
Houses go for 600000 euros or more round here.
It's a nice area, true, but so are many other areas.....which are obviously not as expensive.

Even an adosado with two bedrooms will sell for up to 200000 euros. Pisos going at 250000 euros upwards.

But I've noticed no-one seems to be buying....and the number for sale increases almost weekly.
Is that what they are advertised for or what they are selling for? The houses that are selling around here are going for about half of what I would have expected 5 years ago and they are only being sold by Brits. Spanish owned houses are on the market at 2007 prices and they won't sell at that.
 
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