Big news !! It completely makes sense as well given that the conditions for 491 imply living in a regional area where achieving these thresholds seems challenging.

 

Hi Jagianc

Yes, it is challenging especially for new migrants to settle in Regional Australia and earn TSMIT Threshold. But, the truth is you don't even need to be in Australia to be eligible for 191 Permanent Residence as long as you have held 491 Provisional for 3 years, submit ATO Tax Assessment Notice with $0 AUD for 3 income years out of 5 years and subject to health and character requirements. However, if you are in Australia, you must be living in Regional Postcodes of Australia

As you can see from the claims made by General Skilled Migration Team, there was never an income requirement for 191 Visa Pathway which I cannot truly comprehend even after the update. One can only imagine so many prospective migrants dropping the idea of lodging 491 Visa even with a valid invitation simply because of the fear of meeting TSMIT requirement

I wonder what the objectives of Australian Government were/are in planning these Regional Visa policies that are apparently designed to benefit Regional Australia if one can hold 491 Visa for 3 years, live outside Australia during this time, lodge 191 Permanent Residence at the end of 3 years and live anywhere in Australia without ever having to set a foot in Regional Australia

I hope more migrants are aware of these conditions and make informed decisions in their migration journey!

 

A brief introduction of 491 Skilled Regional Provisional Visa and subsequent pathway to Permanent Residence via new Subclass 191 Visa before revealing a shocking update by the Department of Home Affairs Website on 20 June 2023 regarding requirements and criteria needed to fulfill for the grant of 191 Permanent Residence Visa. Please read this till the end as I promise it will blow your mind!

Most of us are aware of the fact that two new Skilled Regional 491(State/Family Sponsored) and 494 (Regional Employer Sponsored) visas were introduced in Nov 2019 that superseded the existing 489(State/Family Sponsored) and 187 (Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme). For the sake of this current discussion, we will only focus on the requirements and legislation of 491 Provisional Visa and the subsequent permanent pathway 191 Visa

As we all know, 491 was introduced in Australia to address skill shortages and promote economic develeopment in regional areas. The conditions for 491 and 191 was briefly discussed in one of the Skilled Visa Newsletters from Sep 2019 (Immigration and citizenship Website). It clearly states that prospective migrants will have to demonstrate a minimum taxable income through ATO Tax assessment notices for 3 income years which will be set at the Temporary Skilled Migration Income Threshold(TSMIT which was and still is until 01 July 2023) $53,900 AUD as being one of the eligiblity requirements for 191 visa

At that time and especially during COVID-19 pandemic, I am sure most people including myself were uncertain and skeptical on how new skilled migrants will be able to earn $53,900 in regional Australia required to be eligible for 191 Visa. Soon after, during the following years from 2019-2023, there were widespread information by many, if not all registered migration agents to overcome these challenges. Many migrants and 491 Visa holders perceived these solutions to be simple and effective; It does not matter the source of income as long as evidence is provided of $53,900 through ATO Tax assessments for 3 income years which can be done in a wide variety of ways with or without necessarily holding any kind of employment in Regional Australia

In addition, the Home Affairs silence on in-depth eligibility requirements did not help any one of the parties involved to resolve these confusions even though 191 was open to eligible candidates from 16 Nov 2022. Being a holder of 491 Visa for 1.5 years since Feb 2022, meeting >$53,900 income annually and living in Regional Australia for nearly 3 years, I had been very patient to see the full conditions of 191 Visa as the Department's website claimed it will release more information close to 16 Nov 2022. As the days passed, the situation for many 491 Visa holders did not improve as the Minister for Home Affairs Ms.Claire O'Neil released an update on 27 April 2023 to increase current TSMIT from $53,900 to $70,000 from 01 July 2023. Many 491 Visa holders were anxious upon hearing the TSMIT increase and how it would affect 491 Subclass as there were still no updates regarding 191 Visa on the department's website. I finally lodged an FOI requesting for information on minimum income and other requirements needed to fulfill the criteria for 191 Visa and funny enough I am still awaiting response

Meanwhile, On 18 June 2023, I came across a YT Video from AILS titled 'Immigration In Total Confusion Over 191 Visa' (

) which highlighted attempts that were made by two brave 491 Visa Holders to understand the requirements of 191 Visa. The first attempt was through a letter to Hon Mp Andrew Giles (Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs) and the second attempt was through a Complaints/Feedback form to General Skilled Migration Team. Please find attached links to respective e-mails down below

A spokesperson for Hon Mp Andrew Giles responded on 09 June 2023 (Please note 491 and 191 Visas were introduced in Nov 2019 i.e 1301 Days prior to this e-mail). Full PDF attached below

"The subclass 191 visa eligibility criteria requires, among other things, that applicants have lived for at least
three years in a designated regional area, and the applicant’s taxable income for at least three income years
prior to lodging the application. The taxable income is shown on the Australian Taxation Office Notice of
Assessment. The minimum taxable income for the subclass 191 visa is set at the Temporary Skilled Migration Income Threshold (TSMIT), currently $53,900. As you may be aware, the Australian Government has announced there will be an increase to the TSMIT. Further information is available at:
https://minister.homeaffairs.gov.au/ClareONeil/Pages/temporary-skilled-migration-income threshold-raised.aspx."

The GSM team has responded on 13 June 2023 to the complaints form from one of the 491 Visa Holder(Please note 491 and 191 Visas were introduced in Nov 2019 i.e 1305 Days prior to this e-mail). Full PDF attached below

"There have been many assumptions made by the community and Migration Agents, in relation to the subclass
191 income requirements, and many people have incorrectly associated the income level for the subclass 191
to the Temporary Skilled Migration Income Threshold (TSMIT). At no point has the Australian Government,
nor the Department, indicated that the income level will be tied to TSMIT. TSMIT, is relevant to the subclass
482 TSS visa and some other Employer Sponsored visas.

You are correct that there is currently no legislative instrument for the income threshold for the subclass 191
visa, and as such, there is no minimum salary requirement to meet regulation 191.222, which states (the
relevant parts are underlined):

191.222

(1) The applicant has provided copies of notices of assessment, and any notices of amended
assessments, given to the applicant under the Income Tax Assessment Act 1936 in relation to 3
relevant income years for the applicant.
(2) The applicant’s taxable income for each of those relevant income years is at least equal to
the amount specified in an instrument under subclause (3) in relation to the applicant.
(3) The Minister may, by legislative instrument, specify an amount for the purposes of
subclause (2) in relation to all applicants or different classes of applicants.
(4) Subclause (1) is satisfied in relation to a copy of a notice even if the copy does not include
the applicant’s tax file number within the meaning of Part VA of the Income Tax Assessment Act
1936.

What this means is that an applicant will need to provide copies of notices of assessment, and any notices of
amended assessments, given to the applicant under the Income Tax Assessment Act 1936 in relation to 3
relevant income years, however there will be no requirement for the applicant to meet a minimum amount.

We will look to see what improvements can be made to the website to make this clearer and easier to
understand"

These two complete difference of opinions and especially the nonchalant response from GSM team saying that the Australian Government never claimed $53,900 requirement really agitated many migrants considering the fact that these visas were introduced in Nov 2019(i.e 3.6 years ago)

Finally the Home Affairs website has made an update on 20 June 2023(Please note 491 and 191 Visas were introduced in Nov 2019 i.e 1312 DAYS prior to this update) which clearly states that "There is no minimum income requirement for the Permanent Residence (Skilled Regional) visa (subclass 191). Primary applicants must provide notices of assessment issued by the Australian Taxation Office (ATO) for three income years out of the five years of their eligible visa. Primary applicants who have already lodged should ensure their application provides these three notices" (Please find attached official link)

In addition to this, there is also no requirement for any 491 visa holder to be in Australia (Immigration and citizenship Website) It also clearly states in the visa grant letter under Condition 8579 (This condition means that "WHILE IN AUSTRALIA", the applicant must live in designated Regional Australia)

Therefore, in simple words, an Applicant will be eligible to lodge 191 Permanent Visa as long as they have held 491 Provisional visa for 3 years, submitted ATO Tax Assessment Notices with $0 AUD income and subject to Australian Health and Character requirements

This news would have really provided a sigh of relief for many new migrants

But what about the sacrifices made and challenges already faced by existing 491 Visa holders who have climbed the greatest of mountains thinking that they must earn $53,900 for 3 income years in Regional Australia in order to be eligible for Permanent Residency?

How were the perspectives of Dept Head of Home Affairs, General Skilled Migration Team and Migration Agents/Prospective Migrants on the conditions of 491 Visa and subsequent criteria needed to fulfill for 191 Permanent Residence so different that they have nothing in common?

More importantly, What is the real intention of these Regional Visas if 491 Visa holders can live outside Australia for 3 years and submit $0 AUD ATO Tax Assessment Notice to be eligible for Permanent Residency and How will Regional Australia benefit from these non-sensical policies?

I would sincerely request new members and also senior expat members to share any opinions they may have on this thread and also to spread this information so that more people are aware about these conditions

Can I please get a reference to this statement below? Can't seem to find anything on home affairs department website to corroborate it. if you look at the eligibility requirements for 191, it clearly shows that you need to provide evidence that you lived in regional areas for 3 years.

In addition to this, there is also no requirement for any 491 visa holder to be in Australia (Immigration and citizenship Website) It also clearly states in the visa grant letter under Condition 8579 (This condition means that "WHILE IN AUSTRALIA", the applicant must live in designated Regional Australia)

 

Can I please get a reference to this statement below? Can't seem to find anything on home affairs department website to corroborate it. if you look at the eligibility requirements for 191, it clearly shows that you need to provide evidence that you lived in regional areas for 3 years.

In addition to this, there is also no requirement for any 491 visa holder to be in Australia (Immigration and citizenship Website) It also clearly states in the visa grant letter under Condition 8579 (This condition means that "WHILE IN AUSTRALIA", the applicant must live in designated Regional Australia)

Hi Khanji1980

Before looking at the residence requirements for the grant of 191 visa, I will briefly compare the eligibility requirements for the former Regional Permanent 887 and the current Regional Permanent 191 Visa Subclasses

887 Visa (Immigration and citizenship Website)

Key points to note

1. Have an eligible visa

All applicants must be in Australia and hold an eligible visa at the time a subclass 887 application is made unless COVID-19 concessions apply (Eligible visas - 489, 495,496, 475, 487 and any Bridging Visa A or B after having lodged a valid visa application for 489, 495 or 487). However, certain applicants were able to lodge 887 Visa outside of Australia due to COVID-19 border restrictions

2. Meet residence requirement

An applicant must have lived in a designated regional area for atleast 2 years unless COVID-19 concessions apply

3. Meet work requirement

An applicant must have worked full-time (35 hours/week) in a designated regional area for atleast 12 months unless COVID-19 concessions apply

191 Visa (Immigration and citizenship Website)

Key points to note

1. Have an eligible visa

An applicant must hold an eligible visa 491 or 494 for atleast 3 years

2. Comply with the conditions of your eligible visa

An applicant must comply with visa conditions when in Australia

Now, if you look at the residence and work requirements for 191 and 887, it is very clear that 191 visa does not have any residence or work requirements that an applicant must demonstrate to fulfill the criteria for the given pathway. However, if the applicant is in Australia, they must live or work in Regional postcodes to which evidence must be provided as they cannot be living in metropolitan areas of Australia

In addition, the Legislation Migration Amendment (New Skilled Regional Visas) Regulations 2019 (F2019L00578) interprets in-detail the conditions and eligibility requirements for 491, 494 and 191 visas. I will only focus on the conditions of 191 (Mainly 191.213) as 191.214 is relevant to income criteria which is already understood (No Minimum Income Requirement) (Please see attached pdf Legislation down below)

As per 191.213 (page.50)
(1) The applicant complied substantially with the conditions (other than condition
8579) to which the following visas were subject:
(a) the regional provisional visa held by the applicant at the time of
application;
(b) any subsequent bridging visa held by the applicant.
(2) The applicant complied with condition 8579 to which the regional provisional
visa held by the applicant at the time of application was subject unless the
applicant is included in a class of persons specified in an instrument under
subclause (3).
(3) The Minister may, by legislative instrument, specify a class of persons for the
purposes of subclause (2).

The list below details the conditions for 491 Subclass (Conditions 8578, 8579, 8580 and 8581),

8578 - Must notify of certain changes
8579 - Must live/work/study in a designated regional area while in Australia
8580 - Must provide evidence of addresses
8581 - Must attend interview

The detailed interpretations of these conditions are described in the Legislation (page.13)

In simple words, it is apparent that these conditions do not mean that an applicant must to be living in Regional Australia for 3 years or they cannot go outside of Australia for an unspecified period of time which is in stark contrast to the residency and work requirements of 887 Visa. However, if the applicant is in Australia, they must live/work/study in Regional Australia to which the evidence must be provided

As far as future implications on residence or income requirements for 191 visa is concerned, we all know that no one, even the officials from immigration department can state what lies ahead. But, if you look at the evidence, this is what stands true today

With that being said and as I have mentioned previously, these policies are utterly incomprehensible especially if it was designed to benefit Regional Australia

 

Great News..I was just thinking to drop the plan of applying to 491 visa fearing income limit.As I would like to stay in regional area and if I didn't get the job of that level,but this news have made my day.Cheers!!!

 

Beware that it’s too good to be true
It’s a legal glitch and in my personal opinion, it will be corrected soon
There is no way that they can allow this rule that you just get a 491 visa, spend 3 years in your home country, Get a TFN number and file nil tax returns in Australia and get the PR after 3 years
Cheers

 

Totally agree.Removing income criteria is a good point as it would get difficult to maintain that range fro new comers.But I have heard from my freinds residing in regional areas that it has become overpopulated due to high number of incoming people.Its getting difficult to find a room in rent.May be that would be the reason to remove no residence requirement if its not a technical glitch.Lets see on 1st of july what changes are there on cards..

 

@Australia23 @nb202 @jeffreyyip @khanji1980 @Hansarathod

Great inputs and thank you.

Just wanted to ask that even considering the current situation of 491 to be a legal glitch.Is it still reasonable to apply for this VISA as a jackpot opportunity considering that there is no TSMIT apparently and also the conditions to get 191 are right now very generic and simple ?

I am someone who earlier was trying for the 190(I filed my EOI at 75 points for VIC and NSW back in Feb 2023 but since then there hasn't been much movement and still did not get a pre-invite) , furthermore I gave PTE two times and I did not get the desired score of 79+ in each module and I am yet to give my NAATI in the coming 2-3 months.

Just like, one of you mentioned earlier that "there was a fear of achieving the minimum TSMIT threshold in the 491, because of which even I was skeptical to lodge my EOI for the 491"

Also, if in case there can be a minimum income requirement being imposed for the 491-191 bridge in the coming years, will that be applicable for candidates who applied during the current scenario ?

My thoughts on the 491- I believe if what is happening right now is actually how it looks to be, I guess there might actually be a tsunami of applications in the 491 as well considering the recent updates!

 

No 191 has been granted just yet. I dont know but if they include another eligibility condition for the 191 saying "you need to stay inside Australia for xx years", then that way they'd be able to resolve this apparent glitch (if it really is one) and no current 191 holder will be impacted. That would be a cunning way to do it though.

 

Can we lodge $0 tax return if we dont stay in Australia, but have TFN ?
I mean everyone is considering this while saying that one can be eligible for 191 without even stepping into Australia, but my point is to become a resident for tax purpose for ATO, one needs to stay in Australia for >183 days or one should have some passive income (e.g. rent , etc) in Aus for filing income tax.
Am I missing something when people are saying lodging $0 tax return without being in Australia ? because it is obvious that if we stay in home country, then we need to lodge tax there. Can we file tax returns in 2 countries ?

 

As far as I know, you will need an australian address to apply for TFN (they send you the TFN number by post). you can check out the ATO website for more information.
Besides, when you apply for 191 visa, you have to submit proof for residence (utility bills, rental agreements).

 

Has anyone applied for SC 191? Does it need to be 3 years after the 491 grant or 3 years after moving to the regional? Anyone applied 3 years from the grant even if they moved to the regional 2-3 months after the grant?

 

I've lived here my entire life in Sydney and I don't even earn that amount. Having said that I kind of don't really try as I make enough to live on and as far as I'm concerned that's good enough. How the hell an unskilled immigrant is going to meet those requirements is beyond me. Seems like maybe it's just a way to exploit them temporarily for labour and just keep churning them through.

 

Exactly my view
They will come to Australia work in the regionals picking fruits and sticking shelves and then most will go back after 5 years having spent the prime of their youth and entire life savings in Australia
Cheers

 

Calling them unskilled immigrants is harsh. Being forced into regional area doesn't make a skilled person unskilled.

Nobody is forcing them into the regions. They are choosing the regions because of a mindset of do anything and everything to get PR pathway. Its a mindset of hope that somewhere or somehow the same breadth of work opportunities will exist in in South End as their are in Southbank.

They may not be unskilled, but they what they are is not doing their research and rationally assessing their skill sets with the skills that are in demand in regional areas and counterpointing that against the number of opportunities for employment with those skills in the regions. Choosing an ANZCO code at random, yes Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (Avionics) is on the Regional skills list a quick check of Seek suggests that there is currently less than a handful of job openings in Regional Victoria for someone with those skills.

To use my random Aircraft Engineer example, with 1, maybe 2 jobs advertised in Sale at the moment its not going to be long before you are picking grapes to make ends meet.

Didn't they say that 491 leading to 191 doesn't have an income threshold?

The comments up-thread are trying to figure out a way of gaming the system and getting a notice of assessment for a year in which they have an income below which there is no need to file a tax return to meet. Just because the visa doesn't have an income threshold doesn't mean you can survive without an income unless you have deep pockets and if you did have deep pockets you are probably not going to be going down a regional skills visa route.

 

Nobody is forcing them into the regions. They are choosing the regions because of a mindset of do anything and everything to get PR pathway. Its a mindset of hope that somewhere or somehow the same breadth of work opportunities will exist in in South End as their are in Southbank.

They may not be unskilled, but they what they are is not doing their research and rationally assessing their skill sets with the skills that are in demand in regional areas and counterpointing that against the number of opportunities for employment with those skills in the regions. Choosing an ANZCO code at random, yes Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (Avionics) is on the Regional skills list a quick check of Seek suggests that there is currently less than a handful of job openings in Regional Victoria for someone with those skills.

To use my random Aircraft Engineer example, with 1, maybe 2 jobs advertised in Sale at the moment its not going to be long before you are picking grapes to make ends meet.




The comments up-thread are trying to figure out a way of gaming the system and getting a notice of assessment for a year in which they have an income below which there is no need to file a tax return to meet. Just because the visa doesn't have an income threshold doesn't mean you can survive without an income unless you have deep pockets and if you did have deep pockets you are probably not going to be going down a regional skills visa route.

One more point to add
Regionals have more cohesion then big cities, so the chances of any job going to a person who is known to the employer or his friends is quite high
Secondly most employers give first preference to applicants with Australian experience so that they can hit the ground running
Thirdly even if you have deep pockets, just sitting at home and applying day in and out and facing rejection after rejection, takes a heavy toll on your mental state
It really depresses you.
I know of many people who have hundreds of thousands in their bank but still drive an Uber just to get out of the house and retain their sanity
For a couple of years I have been writing on this forum about the 491 trap, but sadly most choose to ignore the reality and chase the Australian dream thinking that there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow
Cheers

 

Unless you are determined to move to Australia and cannot find any employers to sponsor you for 482 visa, you might consider 491 visa if you are not eligible for 189 or 190. The reason being that the job market is somewhat limited in regional areas ( I have spoken to a few locals ) and the fact that you cannot move to major cities. I also thought about getting a survival job just to get by but the idea of giving up a career path that you have already built for years is not easy.

Anyhow, maybe I am just ranting because I could have gotten 190 visa if I had waited a bit longer.

 

Regional area does not mean living in woop woop. Perth, Canberra, Adelaide, Darwin, Gold Coast, Hobart, south side of Brisbane, are all Regional areas. To say there are no jobs in these cities/areas for skilled people is very harsh at the least.

 

Hello guys,
i am new to the forum and really find it helpful to get latest info.

Can anybody share experience reference to below points of 491 visa (applied oct-23, NT, Mech Engr):

1. What is the average percentage/ chances of visa rejection?
2. If status is further processing after 5 months, can still queries be expected from DHA?
3. Can one buy a property and get loan on 491 visa?
4. Can i switch the region after 1-2 years if i get a better job in other region?
5. If i have 491, can i buy house and show its rent as tax returns and not live in australia, continue my job in middle east.

Appreciate the support and experience sharing by the members as person like me applying without any agent can get many clarifications from the discussion.

 

3. Can one buy a property and get loan on 491 visa?
5. If i have 491, can i buy house and show its rent as tax returns and not live in australia, continue my job in middle east.

Doesn't 491 need bank statements to prove you're actually living in Australia?

 

@RDStranger i will be investing a good amount in a region for buying property, paying taxes while buying it and then paying taxes on rents also. I believe this is the purpose of 491, to enhance development of regions. Just sharing my thoughts mate!

 

Any foreign national from anywhere in the world can buy property in Australia, and they do all the time (chinese especially). From what you are saying they all should just get PR?

Again, understand the rules carefully mate. NB or I don't make it. 491 is a fairly new visa

 

i will be investing a good amount in a region for buying property, paying taxes while buying it and then paying taxes on rents also.

Do bear in mind that Temporary residents are not permitted to purchase established dwellings as investment properties to rent out.

If you are looking at buying and renting out commercial or even agricultural property (given the regional visa) there are other restrictions and approvals.

https://foreigninvestment.gov.au/sites/firb.gov.au/files/guidance-notes/02_GN_FIRB.pdf

 

@Moulard thank you for sharing the relevant and useful document. I get following understanding from this.

• Temporary resident can buy only 1 established dwelling for personal residence.
• They can buy any number of new dwellings for investment purpose which means it can be rented out.

As @NB and @khanji1980 aslo mentioned, temporary residents can buy property but will have to pay additional stamp duty.

 

A brief introduction of 491 Skilled Regional Provisional Visa and subsequent pathway to Permanent Residence via new Subclass 191 Visa before revealing a shocking update by the Department of Home Affairs Website on 20 June 2023 regarding requirements and criteria needed to fulfill for the grant of 191 Permanent Residence Visa. Please read this till the end as I promise it will blow your mind!

Most of us are aware of the fact that two new Skilled Regional 491(State/Family Sponsored) and 494 (Regional Employer Sponsored) visas were introduced in Nov 2019 that superseded the existing 489(State/Family Sponsored) and 187 (Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme). For the sake of this current discussion, we will only focus on the requirements and legislation of 491 Provisional Visa and the subsequent permanent pathway 191 Visa

As we all know, 491 was introduced in Australia to address skill shortages and promote economic develeopment in regional areas. The conditions for 491 and 191 was briefly discussed in one of the Skilled Visa Newsletters from Sep 2019 (Immigration and citizenship Website). It clearly states that prospective migrants will have to demonstrate a minimum taxable income through ATO Tax assessment notices for 3 income years which will be set at the Temporary Skilled Migration Income Threshold(TSMIT which was and still is until 01 July 2023) $53,900 AUD as being one of the eligiblity requirements for 191 visa

At that time and especially during COVID-19 pandemic, I am sure most people including myself were uncertain and skeptical on how new skilled migrants will be able to earn $53,900 in regional Australia required to be eligible for 191 Visa. Soon after, during the following years from 2019-2023, there were widespread information by many, if not all registered migration agents to overcome these challenges. Many migrants and 491 Visa holders perceived these solutions to be simple and effective; It does not matter the source of income as long as evidence is provided of $53,900 through ATO Tax assessments for 3 income years which can be done in a wide variety of ways with or without necessarily holding any kind of employment in Regional Australia

In addition, the Home Affairs silence on in-depth eligibility requirements did not help any one of the parties involved to resolve these confusions even though 191 was open to eligible candidates from 16 Nov 2022. Being a holder of 491 Visa for 1.5 years since Feb 2022, meeting >$53,900 income annually and living in Regional Australia for nearly 3 years, I had been very patient to see the full conditions of 191 Visa as the Department's website claimed it will release more information close to 16 Nov 2022. As the days passed, the situation for many 491 Visa holders did not improve as the Minister for Home Affairs Ms.Claire O'Neil released an update on 27 April 2023 to increase current TSMIT from $53,900 to $70,000 from 01 July 2023. Many 491 Visa holders were anxious upon hearing the TSMIT increase and how it would affect 491 Subclass as there were still no updates regarding 191 Visa on the department's website. I finally lodged an FOI requesting for information on minimum income and other requirements needed to fulfill the criteria for 191 Visa and funny enough I am still awaiting response

Meanwhile, On 18 June 2023, I came across a YT Video from AILS titled 'Immigration In Total Confusion Over 191 Visa' (

) which highlighted attempts that were made by two brave 491 Visa Holders to understand the requirements of 191 Visa. The first attempt was through a letter to Hon Mp Andrew Giles (Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs) and the second attempt was through a Complaints/Feedback form to General Skilled Migration Team. Please find attached links to respective e-mails down below

A spokesperson for Hon Mp Andrew Giles responded on 09 June 2023 (Please note 491 and 191 Visas were introduced in Nov 2019 i.e 1301 Days prior to this e-mail). Full PDF attached below

"The subclass 191 visa eligibility criteria requires, among other things, that applicants have lived for at least
three years in a designated regional area, and the applicant’s taxable income for at least three income years
prior to lodging the application. The taxable income is shown on the Australian Taxation Office Notice of
Assessment. The minimum taxable income for the subclass 191 visa is set at the Temporary Skilled Migration Income Threshold (TSMIT), currently $53,900. As you may be aware, the Australian Government has announced there will be an increase to the TSMIT. Further information is available at:
https://minister.homeaffairs.gov.au/ClareONeil/Pages/temporary-skilled-migration-income threshold-raised.aspx."

The GSM team has responded on 13 June 2023 to the complaints form from one of the 491 Visa Holder(Please note 491 and 191 Visas were introduced in Nov 2019 i.e 1305 Days prior to this e-mail). Full PDF attached below

"There have been many assumptions made by the community and Migration Agents, in relation to the subclass
191 income requirements, and many people have incorrectly associated the income level for the subclass 191
to the Temporary Skilled Migration Income Threshold (TSMIT). At no point has the Australian Government,
nor the Department, indicated that the income level will be tied to TSMIT. TSMIT, is relevant to the subclass
482 TSS visa and some other Employer Sponsored visas.

You are correct that there is currently no legislative instrument for the income threshold for the subclass 191
visa, and as such, there is no minimum salary requirement to meet regulation 191.222, which states (the
relevant parts are underlined):

191.222

(1) The applicant has provided copies of notices of assessment, and any notices of amended
assessments, given to the applicant under the Income Tax Assessment Act 1936 in relation to 3
relevant income years for the applicant.
(2) The applicant’s taxable income for each of those relevant income years is at least equal to
the amount specified in an instrument under subclause (3) in relation to the applicant.
(3) The Minister may, by legislative instrument, specify an amount for the purposes of
subclause (2) in relation to all applicants or different classes of applicants.
(4) Subclause (1) is satisfied in relation to a copy of a notice even if the copy does not include
the applicant’s tax file number within the meaning of Part VA of the Income Tax Assessment Act
1936.

What this means is that an applicant will need to provide copies of notices of assessment, and any notices of
amended assessments, given to the applicant under the Income Tax Assessment Act 1936 in relation to 3
relevant income years, however there will be no requirement for the applicant to meet a minimum amount.

We will look to see what improvements can be made to the website to make this clearer and easier to
understand"

These two complete difference of opinions and especially the nonchalant response from GSM team saying that the Australian Government never claimed $53,900 requirement really agitated many migrants considering the fact that these visas were introduced in Nov 2019(i.e 3.6 years ago)

Finally the Home Affairs website has made an update on 20 June 2023(Please note 491 and 191 Visas were introduced in Nov 2019 i.e 1312 DAYS prior to this update) which clearly states that "There is no minimum income requirement for the Permanent Residence (Skilled Regional) visa (subclass 191). Primary applicants must provide notices of assessment issued by the Australian Taxation Office (ATO) for three income years out of the five years of their eligible visa. Primary applicants who have already lodged should ensure their application provides these three notices" (Please find attached official link)

In addition to this, there is also no requirement for any 491 visa holder to be in Australia (Immigration and citizenship Website) It also clearly states in the visa grant letter under Condition 8579 (This condition means that "WHILE IN AUSTRALIA", the applicant must live in designated Regional Australia)

Therefore, in simple words, an Applicant will be eligible to lodge 191 Permanent Visa as long as they have held 491 Provisional visa for 3 years, submitted ATO Tax Assessment Notices with $0 AUD income and subject to Australian Health and Character requirements

This news would have really provided a sigh of relief for many new migrants

But what about the sacrifices made and challenges already faced by existing 491 Visa holders who have climbed the greatest of mountains thinking that they must earn $53,900 for 3 income years in Regional Australia in order to be eligible for Permanent Residency?

How were the perspectives of Dept Head of Home Affairs, General Skilled Migration Team and Migration Agents/Prospective Migrants on the conditions of 491 Visa and subsequent criteria needed to fulfill for 191 Permanent Residence so different that they have nothing in common?

More importantly, What is the real intention of these Regional Visas if 491 Visa holders can live outside Australia for 3 years and submit $0 AUD ATO Tax Assessment Notice to be eligible for Permanent Residency and How will Regional Australia benefit from these non-sensical policies?

I would sincerely request new members and also senior expat members to share any opinions they may have on this thread and also to spread this information so that more people are aware about these conditions

Greta information

 

Greetings,
Is there any update on anyone getting or rejected a 191 visa?
On the other hand, do we have any estimate of people on 491 visas not being able to apply for 191 visa and returning back home? Reason being not been able to get good enough jobs.

 

No one is going to have that information on hand and a quick skim of the FOI disclosure logs for recent years suggests that no one has asked for data on 191 rejection numbers.
If you want to know rejection rates, then you will have to raise an FOI request.

Given no one has to declare why they are leaving the country there is no way to find out how many people leave the country for the reason that they cannot find a suitable job.

Should someone reply with personal anecdotes is not enough to tell you anything beyond their person experience.

 

Incredible