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Discussion Starter #1
Dear members,

I realise that crime and safety questions arrise all the time and I have read many threads regarding the issues, but as a married man with three young children I need to be positive before I move to Joburg.

Therefore, if anyone has some advice they could give on the following, I would be really grateful.

How safe are the affluent areas of Sandton? Do criminals venture into family burbs looking for opportunities?

Would my wife be safe driving to the local mall during the day?

Is the lifestyle pattern going to be - go to work (bryanston) straight back to my gated, electric fenced house?

What is the comeraderie like in gated or secure housing community?

Are there any members who are from the UK and have made a similar transition? My wife obviously has many questions and would love to be able to chat further.

Thank you for your help and please no sarcastic ('you could get mugged in your own country') comments this is very imortant to us so constructive advice would be really kind.

Ed
 

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Edward- we are in the same boat as you- moving to South Africa- Sandton area. I am very concerned that me and my family will not be safe and after looking at the info. Steven sent- i.e. statistics- I am horrified to think I may be exposing my children to this kind of violence. I will be actively trying to talk my husband out of moving here- it just isn't worth the risk of something happening to us. If anyone out there can prove otherwise please post.
 

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Edward- we are in the same boat as you- moving to South Africa- Sandton area. I am very concerned that me and my family will not be safe and after looking at the info. Steven sent- i.e. statistics- I am horrified to think I may be exposing my children to this kind of violence. I will be actively trying to talk my husband out of moving here- it just isn't worth the risk of something happening to us. If anyone out there can prove otherwise please post.
Nobody can prove otherwise, as nobody can prove you will be safe anywhere in the world.
 

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Dear members,

I realise that crime and safety questions arrise all the time and I have read many threads regarding the issues, but as a married man with three young children I need to be positive before I move to Joburg.

Therefore, if anyone has some advice they could give on the following, I would be really grateful.

How safe are the affluent areas of Sandton? Do criminals venture into family burbs looking for opportunities?

Would my wife be safe driving to the local mall during the day?

Is the lifestyle pattern going to be - go to work (bryanston) straight back to my gated, electric fenced house?

What is the comeraderie like in gated or secure housing community?

Are there any members who are from the UK and have made a similar transition? My wife obviously has many questions and would love to be able to chat further.

Thank you for your help and please no sarcastic ('you could get mugged in your own country') comments this is very imortant to us so constructive advice would be really kind.

Ed
Why live in Santon? There there is more crime happening, because there is really something to get. Big houses and the more rich live there, so thy have more nicer things in the house, so the houses are really like a fort!

And then to go to Bryanton....traffic jam twice a day! Go and live in Bryanston then, is my advice! Traffic in and around Jo'burg in the morning and evening is terrible, so live as close as you can near your job!
Or Dainfern, there are living a lot expats over there!

Would my wife be safe driving to the local mall during the day? Of course!!

Is the lifestyle pattern going to be - go to work (bryanston) straight back to my gated, electric fenced house?
No, visiting malla, restaurante, theathers, having breakfast or lunch at a nice spot and so more. Visit the country it self, go to Gold reef city in Jo'burg with the kids.

What is the comeraderie like in gated or secure housing community? I really do not know. Becauce we do not live like that! We have bought our own plot with house, great the space we have here!

We like living here, so much, the weather, the people, the country. No we donot want to live in de Eu no more!

Yes you have to learn some safety things, but that is no reason not to live here.:confused2:

Good luck with everything.

greeting from sunny Kyalami
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you

Edward- we are in the same boat as you- moving to South Africa- Sandton area. I am very concerned that me and my family will not be safe and after looking at the info. Steven sent- i.e. statistics- I am horrified to think I may be exposing my children to this kind of violence. I will be actively trying to talk my husband out of moving here- it just isn't worth the risk of something happening to us. If anyone out there can prove otherwise please post.
I think the problem is that I don't have enough first hand feedback - if I do get some, I will share. I really want to move there for the job and for a certain standard of life but I always have this niggling worry of taking the family. Please let me know if you get any other information.

Ed
 

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My view

I think the problem is that I don't have enough first hand feedback - if I do get some, I will share. I really want to move there for the job and for a certain standard of life but I always have this niggling worry of taking the family. Please let me know if you get any other information.

Ed
Edward and Kathy
A previous post about being close to your work in Bryanston is valid. Although, depending on your exact location, the traffic from Sandton to Bryanston is certainly not as bad as from Bryanston to Sandton. Bryanston is about as safe as Sandton and there are some great places to live in Bryanston, but I'm uncertain about how many gated communities there are in Bryanston. There is one that I know though which is superb: Riverclub. It's a golf club culture and quite posh.

The advantages of living in a gated community are that if you've got kids, they will be able to ride their bikes in the street without fear of an accident on a busy road, and without fear of having their bikes stolen away from them. You and your wife will also feel more secure - so perhaps this is best for you. Also, when you return from a restaurant late at night, you will be want to be returning home to a guarded entrance, if you're apprehensive. - The good security offered at many of these 'gated communities' may seem strange at first, but you'll become accustomed to it. At times it can even become an irritation as your dinner guests will be subjected to scrupulous security checks. They are worthwhile though and the advantage is that you feel safe in your home.

As I'm sure you already know, South Africans are incredibly friendly people, but also respectful of your privacy. You may well be invited around by neighbours for a 'braai' and will feel immediate warmth and instantly be subjected to good ol' SA humour.

Yes, your wife will be able to drive to the mall and in 2 or 3 months she will be asking 'what's all the fuss about?'. You should however always remain aware and never become blaze. Chatting on your mobile phone at the street lights (or robots as they're called in SA) is asking for trouble and you'd be inviting hijacking or 'smash and grab' for example. You'd be advertising your 'unawareness' to any would be criminals. Also, a large flashy watch and big diamonds are best covered up, when driving, shopping etc. - At least until you've become more 'tuned in', and then, still be careful.

Driving in Johannesburg can be daunting and while a GPS system is great, I'd caution against relying on this totally. There are certain areas in Jozi (Johannesburg) that are more dangerous than others. Stick to what you know until you're properly aclimatized.

Some advice about a car for your wife. A flat tyre on the road can be dreadful for us girls, but in a new country, where crime can be an issue, you may want to consider drive flat tyres, allowing you to continue to a safe place to stop, before changing the tyre.

Onto a more pleasant topic:

You will be able to drive for 2 or 3 hours and find yourself in a great big 5 private game reserve, experiencing the african bushveld in luxury.
In 6 hours you can get to the Kruger National Park
In 4 hours you can drive to the Drakensberg mountain range. Hike up the mountains, soak up the scenery and have the most unforgetable holiday with your wife and kid/s in great accommodation.
In 3-4 hours you can drive to Clarens and spend a quiet weekend at a B&B wondering around art galleries
In 5-6 hours you can be in Durban, swimming in the warm Indian Ocean.
And all this costs NOTHING when you're earning foreign currency. Even by SA standards it's value for money.

The restaurants, cafe culture and shopping are not bad. - I can help with some recommendations :) if you like?

The birdsong in the mornings and the secretive birdlife that will visit your garden is just magical.
The lush greenery, beautiful gardens, the smiling face that will help you fill your car full of petrol, endless blue skies, the long warm summer days (remember he suntan lotiion!) and crisp Joburg winters. (Never much colder than 2 degrees in the early morning).
Joburg thunderstorms are stunning!!
In all likelihood you will enjoy a wonderful relationship with the housekeeper you're likely to find to help with the running of the home. You should try and find someone through a contact, so that you know what you're getting here.
The schools are great and the medical care in SA is fabulous. (I fly back to SA to be treated there).

and... SA speak:) - some of it anyway...
robots = street lights
takkies = trainers
howzit = hello, how are you doing?
I'm coming just now = I'm coming when I'm ready and that could mean in 5 minutes or in a good few hours.
eeeish = holy manoly, whew, geeez

You should absolutely go and discover this beautiful, crazy land, and I wish you both the very best. I'll be there in November, and am happy to help with anything at all. Your wife is very welcome to call me too. Let me know if you'd like my contact details.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thank you

Edward and Kathy
A previous post about being close to your work in Bryanston is valid. Although, depending on your exact location, the traffic from Sandton to Bryanston is certainly not as bad as from Bryanston to Sandton. Bryanston is about as safe as Sandton and there are some great places to live in Bryanston, but I'm uncertain about how many gated communities there are in Bryanston. There is one that I know though which is superb: Riverclub. It's a golf club culture and quite posh.

The advantages of living in a gated community are that if you've got kids, they will be able to ride their bikes in the street without fear of an accident on a busy road, and without fear of having their bikes stolen away from them. You and your wife will also feel more secure - so perhaps this is best for you. Also, when you return from a restaurant late at night, you will be want to be returning home to a guarded entrance, if you're apprehensive. - The good security offered at many of these 'gated communities' may seem strange at first, but you'll become accustomed to it. At times it can even become an irritation as your dinner guests will be subjected to scrupulous security checks. They are worthwhile though and the advantage is that you feel safe in your home.

As I'm sure you already know, South Africans are incredibly friendly people, but also respectful of your privacy. You may well be invited around by neighbours for a 'braai' and will feel immediate warmth and instantly be subjected to good ol' SA humour.

Yes, your wife will be able to drive to the mall and in 2 or 3 months she will be asking 'what's all the fuss about?'. You should however always remain aware and never become blaze. Chatting on your mobile phone at the street lights (or robots as they're called in SA) is asking for trouble and you'd be inviting hijacking or 'smash and grab' for example. You'd be advertising your 'unawareness' to any would be criminals. Also, a large flashy watch and big diamonds are best covered up, when driving, shopping etc. - At least until you've become more 'tuned in', and then, still be careful.

Driving in Johannesburg can be daunting and while a GPS system is great, I'd caution against relying on this totally. There are certain areas in Jozi (Johannesburg) that are more dangerous than others. Stick to what you know until you're properly aclimatized.

Some advice about a car for your wife. A flat tyre on the road can be dreadful for us girls, but in a new country, where crime can be an issue, you may want to consider drive flat tyres, allowing you to continue to a safe place to stop, before changing the tyre.

Onto a more pleasant topic:

You will be able to drive for 2 or 3 hours and find yourself in a great big 5 private game reserve, experiencing the african bushveld in luxury.
In 6 hours you can get to the Kruger National Park
In 4 hours you can drive to the Drakensberg mountain range. Hike up the mountains, soak up the scenery and have the most unforgetable holiday with your wife and kid/s in great accommodation.
In 3-4 hours you can drive to Clarens and spend a quiet weekend at a B&B wondering around art galleries
In 5-6 hours you can be in Durban, swimming in the warm Indian Ocean.
And all this costs NOTHING when you're earning foreign currency. Even by SA standards it's value for money.

The restaurants, cafe culture and shopping are not bad. - I can help with some recommendations :) if you like?

The birdsong in the mornings and the secretive birdlife that will visit your garden is just magical.
The lush greenery, beautiful gardens, the smiling face that will help you fill your car full of petrol, endless blue skies, the long warm summer days (remember he suntan lotiion!) and crisp Joburg winters. (Never much colder than 2 degrees in the early morning).
Joburg thunderstorms are stunning!!
In all likelihood you will enjoy a wonderful relationship with the housekeeper you're likely to find to help with the running of the home. You should try and find someone through a contact, so that you know what you're getting here.
The schools are great and the medical care in SA is fabulous. (I fly back to SA to be treated there).

and... SA speak:) - some of it anyway...
robots = street lights
takkies = trainers
howzit = hello, how are you doing?
I'm coming just now = I'm coming when I'm ready and that could mean in 5 minutes or in a good few hours.
eeeish = holy manoly, whew, geeez

You should absolutely go and discover this beautiful, crazy land, and I wish you both the very best. I'll be there in November, and am happy to help with anything at all. Your wife is very welcome to call me too. Let me know if you'd like my contact details.

Thank you so much for such a thoughtful reply, my wife and I really appreciate the time you have taken to respond. I will find out more by the end of the week so if you dont mind my wife would love to contact you should things go smoothly.

Thank you again,

Kathy and Edward.
 

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contact

Thank you so much for such a thoughtful reply, my wife and I really appreciate the time you have taken to respond. I will find out more by the end of the week so if you dont mind my wife would love to contact you should things go smoothly.

Thank you again,

Kathy and Edward.
It would be my pleasure to help your wife. (I've just tried to post my email address without success as I have to make 4 posts here before I'm an active member... Let's try this: blnd(underscore)gbsn(at)yahoo(dot)com. If this doesn't work, I'll make a few more posts.

Hope to connect with Kathy soon.
 

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Edward and Kathy, I've stayed on the sidelines on this one (getting tired of being shouted down because I only deal in facts)
I have'nt checked which stats Stevan has given you so there might be a Duplication.
Sandton is a very broad area which is serviced by a number of SAPS Stations, each station has contributed to stats that clearly define what crimes have been reported in that area.

Everyone says that if you stay out of bad areas you will be ok, however, in the crime stats, there is a section for aggravated Robbery,
That is Sarf Africanese for having a number of heavily armed criminals in your home, with you.
This is the one that has driven more South Africans out of South Africa than anything else.
And they do happen in Gated and supposedly secure Estates.

The second scary one is Hi-jackings, at Robots,in your driveway, at shopping centres etc

The SA Police services have given some information which I posted earlier on a thread called Advice for Expats on this forum.
I did'nt make it up,

You need to look at the underlying hints.
why are Homes so well secured?
why is there an armed Security presence at Schools and creches when you drop children off and fetch them?
Why are the highways so much quieter after 9pm at night?

why are the Doctors who have the contracts to do emigration Medicals booked up 6 months in advance?
why are 58% of South Africans who have higher education and children seriously considering emigrating (Source Synovate Survey 2009 on behalf of ISS) as soon as the EC is over.

I am sure you have met South Africans wherever you are, if they have children , ask them why they left and why they wont go back.
Most will tell you they want to go back, but wont till the crime is sorted out.
its not getting sorted out ,not the ones that keep people awake at nights.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thank you for your candour

Edward and Kathy, I've stayed on the sidelines on this one (getting tired of being shouted down because I only deal in facts)
I have'nt checked which stats Stevan has given you so there might be a Duplication.
Sandton is a very broad area which is serviced by a number of SAPS Stations, each station has contributed to stats that clearly define what crimes have been reported in that area.

Everyone says that if you stay out of bad areas you will be ok, however, in the crime stats, there is a section for aggravated Robbery,
That is Sarf Africanese for having a number of heavily armed criminals in your home, with you.
This is the one that has driven more South Africans out of South Africa than anything else.
And they do happen in Gated and supposedly secure Estates.

The second scary one is Hi-jackings, at Robots,in your driveway, at shopping centres etc

The SA Police services have given some information which I posted earlier on a thread called Advice for Expats on this forum.
I did'nt make it up,

You need to look at the underlying hints.
why are Homes so well secured?
why is there an armed Security presence at Schools and creches when you drop children off and fetch them?
Why are the highways so much quieter after 9pm at night?

why are the Doctors who have the contracts to do emigration Medicals booked up 6 months in advance?
why are 58% of South Africans who have higher education and children seriously considering emigrating (Source Synovate Survey 2009 on behalf of ISS) as soon as the EC is over.

I am sure you have met South Africans wherever you are, if they have children , ask them why they left and why they wont go back.
Most will tell you they want to go back, but wont till the crime is sorted out.
its not getting sorted out ,not the ones that keep people awake at nights.
Thank you for chipping in, I think your point of view is very valid. One human question that you may have a comment on - and I would really like your input - when looking at 'affluent safe' areas north of JB, I see rather wornderful housing, recreational places like Montecasino, school children looking extremely happy, I just watched a cricket match on TV in JB - the crowd happy and enjoying life etc...
What am I missing? Are these people hardcore hardenned South Africans or just lucky.

Many thanks,

Edward.
 

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Edward, its a lottery thats slightly skewed.
You could live there for 40 years and never experience anything more than the "petty" crime of a stolen car/burglary when you are out/ bag snatching etc.
Or you could cross someones sight lines without knowing it.
You need to look at the South Africans as a population group to understand their attitude.
They (we) spent 48 years practising/experiencing Apartheid,
Fought a border war, lost it, nearly had a civil war when some idiots assasinated Chris Hani,
Are probably still the most polarised colour conscious nation on Earth but are eternal optimists and live in hope.

If I can give you an example, in any other Western Country if you got car-jacked or had a tiger raid with 4 armed guys threatening rape murder and etc and survived it with no damage,
people would be agog.
In SA you were lucky, and the subject gets changed.
Its the same mentality that existed in Britain during the Second World War, its there, its a strong possibility, lets ignore it and enjoy the cricket shall we.
dont misunderstand me, its a beautiful Country, it has great people, it has scenery that is breathtaking, its weather is superb,

But it has an attitude towards danger thats a bit gung ho because it is (and always has been ) a dangerous place.
So yes, its exciting, and vibrant and alive and you can live in a better house than your UK MD could probably dream of for half the price,
and if you were young without kids its a great place to be.

Crunch point for any parent in SA.
If you won the Euro Millions and could live anywhere, where would your kids be safest?
SA is far down the list.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thank you once more

Edward, its a lottery thats slightly skewed.
You could live there for 40 years and never experience anything more than the "petty" crime of a stolen car/burglary when you are out/ bag snatching etc.
Or you could cross someones sight lines without knowing it.
You need to look at the South Africans as a population group to understand their attitude.
They (we) spent 48 years practising/experiencing Apartheid,
Fought a border war, lost it, nearly had a civil war when some idiots assasinated Chris Hani,
Are probably still the most polarised colour conscious nation on Earth but are eternal optimists and live in hope.

If I can give you an example, in any other Western Country if you got car-jacked or had a tiger raid with 4 armed guys threatening rape murder and etc and survived it with no damage,
people would be agog.
In SA you were lucky, and the subject gets changed.
Its the same mentality that existed in Britain during the Second World War, its there, its a strong possibility, lets ignore it and enjoy the cricket shall we.
dont misunderstand me, its a beautiful Country, it has great people, it has scenery that is breathtaking, its weather is superb,

But it has an attitude towards danger thats a bit gung ho because it is (and always has been ) a dangerous place.
So yes, its exciting, and vibrant and alive and you can live in a better house than your UK MD could probably dream of for half the price,
and if you were young without kids its a great place to be.

Crunch point for any parent in SA.
If you won the Euro Millions and could live anywhere, where would your kids be safest?
SA is far down the list.
Thank you again, very insightful - just a shame that the negatives are starting to outwiegh the the positive.

Edward
 

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Re:And he's back!!

Aw yes Mr.Daxx is back and with more of the usual negative banter. Once again people come to this forum to get unbiased information, so as to help them make life altering decisions. Yet time and time again you find a way to discourage individuals from coming to see first hand for themselves what a truely beautiful country this is and the numerous opportunities!!!
No country is a 100% safe and each one has it's own standard of living a safe and satisfying life and that is to be understood. Sandton is very safe and a lot of negative information is stemming from fear or ignorance and in some cases resentment. As long as one takes heed to the information that's given out by the local police on how to prevent crime, common sense as well as listening to your gut instinct will keep you safe and away from a load of trouble!
For the record I do not work for a headhunter nor do I have any invested interest in posting my own thoughts except for the fact if I had come to this forum before I moved and read what you and your cohorts posted, I would have second guessed myself and would not have made the move,and would have missed out on the sunshine,the smiling warm faces,the business oportunities and I am a lot happier for it.
Good luck to those opened minded enough to see past all the negativity and will venture out to make the move out here..
 

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Chinasing.
prove me wrong with facts.
Crime statistics on crimes reported in Sandton, at the Sandton, Douglasdale,Rosebank, Randburg and Midrand Police Stations.
All Areas the the OP will be looking at as potential areas to live in and commute.
I dont have to post negativity,the SA Press reports are negative enough.

exactly how long have you lived there ?
 

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Aw yes Mr.Daxx is back and with more of the usual negative banter. Once again people come to this forum to get unbiased information, so as to help them make life altering decisions. Yet time and time again you find a way to discourage individuals from coming to see first hand for themselves what a truely beautiful country this is and the numerous opportunities!!!
Listen to both sides of the argument edward. Daxx will give you lots of information that is always backed up by facts and figuers. Then listen to the other side you have already recieved some posotives.

From my point of view. I love it in south africa. I have a far better standard of life.

Is it for everybody? no definatley not. The truth is probably somwhere between the two sides of the argument. But to make an informed choice you must listen to both sides.

My advice discount the all wine and roses replys, and the one line doom and gloom your going to die replies. there are a lot of informed people on here that will give you good advice and thier opinion. Remember it is only their opinion and only you can make the finale decision.

I wish you well with what ever you decide.
 
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