[Nonnamags]

Please may I pick people's brains? We had a metal sandwich roof installed legally 7 ears ago with a view to having a new pantile roof, increasing the pitch, etc. once finance had been raised....therein lies the rub. No finance due to crisis with bank.. . . So still got metal roof, still no ceilings, still got leaks. We do have replacement metal beams instead of the eucolyptus logs previously fitted. We have now decided that we would like to just stick lightweight tiles on tops of the metal as we can probably raise the funds to do this with a local builder. Now the BIG ISSUES are:

1. How much does a licence de Obras cost?

2. How much would a structural engineer cost, as we would need to know the load bearing, due to having no foundations - (old casita built on earth 1970's.)

3. If we won the euro millions how much would an architect cost, plus a builder for 100sg mtr roof?

I've almost lost the will to live, we can't sleep for the noise of the roof, and can't put up ceilings as roof panels leak in a handful of places. 10 years of hell!. AAARRGHHHH! HELP PLEASE!

 

[mysticsmick]

I can't speak to your situation, but here's mine: last Summer we had a new roof put up on our 112 year old farmhouse and the prior roof was in all likelihood the same age. The house is 112 square meters. Half the structural part of the roof was replaced, new wood/insulation/wood sheets were installed, then water barrier, and finally a mix of old and new ceramic tiles (new below & old above to give an appearance of age). The final touch was new gutters and downspouts for a future rainwater collection system. The architect cost 2,500€ (a big discount cuz he was a friend of a friend), the labor and materials cost 30,000€, and I don't recollect the cost of the permit, but it was based on the project cost estimate given by the architect.

Now externally the house looks just as before, but without the various sways caused by the warped wooden structural. We took out all the false ceilings beforehand and now are living the inner structure visible... and, thinking about how we want to continue from where we are now. I've done this before several times and so I have learned to live in a construction site... it is not for everyone!

 

[Nonnamags]

Really useful - thanks ever so much for sharing this. The license is about 5% of total works & labour apparently. Can I ask if you bought 2 lots of tiles or reused the old ones for the outer roof? Also how much would the cost of say plasterboard ceilings cost? Money is a serious issue so we have to find an affordable solution... Living the dream has been an absolute nightmare for the last few years, but we have no other option but to stay and make it work...

 

[mysticsmick]

We bought new tiles for the lower tier and used the old ones for the upper/visible tiles. The house is one half of what was once a nun's monastery and we wanted to match the other half owned by neighbors, and we also have an outbuilding (called an hórreo - a Northwestern Spain farm building used to store crops) that has an older tile roof... so, it was an aesthetic decision.

I don't anything know about plaster board. Most of the house will need some type of interior material to cover the various components of the roof structure. We have been thinking about thin tongue & groove wood in some rooms and just painting the exposed inner roof in other parts as having a high open ceiling can be pleasing... even the irregular old boards have a distinct quality that we like.

On money: we aren't rich nor well-off. We are doing this in stages... first money and then a new project... and the next project is heating as we tore out the old nonfunctioning coal burning stove with it's pipes and radiators and so for the moment we heat whatever room we're in with small electric heaters... I'm looking at basic pellet stoves and then making a custom set of ductworks to move the warm air throughout the house. In the meantime I wear sweaters indoors.

In between the big projects, I do little ones as that takes some of the edge off of waiting for the big stuff to happen.... for instance, I like taking cuttings from trees and plants that I encounter as I walk about the countryside and then cloning them for around the exterior and in the orchard.

Also, I like how a project such as this evolves... so that when I make a change and get to see how it looks, then sometimes what I had planned on doing next changes. As I wrote before, I've done this before (not in old stone farmhouses)... my last project was an old wooden Victorian in San Francisco and that took 5 years. These types of projects are very real challenges.

 

[Nonnamags]

Thanks ever so for your insightful response mysticsmick - we've put ourselves in others' hands, have had sever financial difficulties, waited nearly 9 years, and now decided to take the initiative. The pics have been particularly helpful - we hadn't even thought of using wooden panelling for noise/heat/water insulation! Our very real issue is the fact we don't want to remove the sandwich, just to build on top,although after your response we will reconsider. Again thank you for sharing it really has been very much appreciated. Good luck with your ongoing project! Nonnamags. : )))))))

 

[Nonnamags]

Forgot to say we didn't have any heating either, but bought a wood burner some years ago. It's very cosy and whilst doesn't heat every room (we too wear a lot of woollies inside!) leaving all the interior doors open the house has an ambient temperature. The price of wood here is around 120 euros and usually need 3 loads due to deteriorating winters and no foundations. 30 euros a mth is ok isn't it? The new cassette wood burns have ducts which reach each room. I do recommend these. Plus you can burn all the old wood you find, fallen trees etc.. I'm going for storage heaters in the bedrooms next, but saving majorly for the roof first.

 

[gus-lopez]

Well here where I live in Lorca, there would be no requirement for an architect or a 'proyecto' as the work shown would come under 'small works licence'. ( Licencia de obras menores.) l
If the roof exists & doesn't require any modifications & the tiles can go straight on it then a licence for the tiles would be all that is required. If it requires all that mysticmick has shown in his excellent photo's then a licence for change of roof tiles & supporting beams would be needed.
It is best to ask specifically in your local town hall municipal building department as it is quite likely an architect may not be needed.

 

[Nonnamags]

Thanks Gus Lopez we are now considering our options. If we cannot get the banks extension to mortgage to completely replace the sandwich roof, ( and increase the angle of the apex) then our next bet fix is to use lightweight tiles not top of the sandwich as it is. The silly thing is that when the old asbestos roof came off, and new roof joists went on with the "temporary" sandwich sheeting, we had no recollection of a licence in any way shape or form. . . Welcome to back water Spain, where the laws differ not only from province to province but also from day to day! LOL I really do appreciate all advice given on this forum - it's invaluable.

 

[gus-lopez]

Thanks Gus Lopez we are now considering our options. If we cannot get the banks extension to mortgage to completely replace the sandwich roof, ( and increase the angle of the apex) then our next bet fix is to use lightweight tiles not top of the sandwich as it is. The silly thing is that when the old asbestos roof came off, and new roof joists went on with the "temporary" sandwich sheeting, we had no recollection of a licence in any way shape or form. . . Welcome to back water Spain, where the laws differ not only from province to province but also from day to day! LOL I really do appreciate all advice given on this forum - it's invaluable.

When you say 'sandwich' do you mean the insulated panel type ? ( steel sheet both side.

We use those in 40mm thickness for covering a roof & then screw interlocking tiles straight to the roof sandwich panel.
Tiles here are normally Escandellas & there are 10.5 tiles per square metre.Each tile weighs approximately 4kgs.

 

[Nonnamags]

Sandwich roof panels

When you say 'sandwich' do you mean the insulated panel type ? ( steel sheet both side.

We use those in 40mm thickness for covering a roof & then screw interlocking tiles straight to the roof sandwich panel.
Tiles here are normally Escandellas & there are 10.5 tiles per square metre.Each tile weighs approximately 4kgs.

Yep it's the insulated panel type. The casita as no foundations, we have taken almost all the inside partition walls out, with the exception of the 2 main cross bearing supporting walls. It was on,y a single brick build too! Hubby has now completely rebuilt a second wall on all sides with polystyrene as cavity insulation.

The joists have been replaced with metal beams, but there is one concern about load bearing, hence the many questions. We've been to our local Spanish builders merchants and he is sourcing both very lightweight single tiles or the kind of wavy plate type tile ( technical female talk!). We will then ave to source a structural engineer to check if its possible. TBH it's make or break time as we've already been ripped off to the tune of over 10K and we still have leaks. When/if it stops raining we will try the tela blanca and Caucho paint on the apex covering as this seems the likely culprit. Can't find other solution and surprise surprise the sandwich people have gone bust. Bloody nightmare! Sick to death doesn't cover it.....
Are you able to send me illustrations of what you've used??? Sounds promising if we can find someone down this way to assist? Thanks ever so... For giving me a glimmer of hope!

 

[Nonnamags]

Googled the tiles, theyre fabulous, but Think they're still too heavy - 120 sq mtrs at over 40 kgs per sq mtr seems a lot of weight .....also can't work out how they're screwed down. Builders down here still use tons of mezcla for their concrete bunkers, so trying to re-educate them will be an interesting challenge.

 

[mysticsmick]

Well here where I live in Lorca, there would be no requirement for an architect or a 'proyecto' as the work shown would come under 'small works licence'. ( Licencia de obras menores.) l
If the roof exists & doesn't require any modifications & the tiles can go straight on it then a licence for the tiles would be all that is required. If it requires all that mysticmick has shown in his excellent photo's then a licence for change of roof tiles & supporting beams would be needed.
It is best to ask specifically in your local town hall municipal building department as it is quite likely an architect may not be needed.

In Asturias you need a license the moment you begin to remove or modify anything structural. Unfortunately, the photos that I posted did not show the large quantity of deteriorated/insect infected structural timbers we had to change. We had a 9 foot wide bonfire for 24 hours with the wood that could not be salvaged.

 

[gus-lopez]

With the curved part of the tile on the left in the top right corner between the two raised ridges there is a nail/screw hole that is preformed in the tile approx 95% through. If using nails the first blow just takes the tiny bottom piece out. You can do the same with a screw although it has a tendecy to ride up. When we did our house my wife just ran them through with a masonry drill & this stops the tile riding up.

When we did next door & screwed straight to insulated panels putting your foot on the tile prevents it riding up.

If you go on the escandella site here;

La Escandella - Products: Our roof tiles - Mixed 'S' Roof Tile - Red: Installation guides

Open the installation guide & it shows you various methods of fixing plus minimum slope etc:

 

[Nonnamags]

Cheers for this....any ideas on what the Spanish call a surveyor? Don't think we need an architect, but a structural engineer...think it's a Perito? Any body help? The last architect we had kindly offered we pump hundreds of tons of concrete underneath, or perhaps we'd like to consider a rebuild?? Errrrrm no! Just a pantile water tight roof thanks...

 

[Nonnamags]

I need an Aperajador or summat...... Technical engineer to do a structural survey in Huelva province. Has anyone any experience of this, costs,etc. before I make an appointment for site visit? Please respond!

 

[gus-lopez]

Ask around at a couple of Architects as they will either have Aperajador associates or recommend a local one. get a couple of prices if you can.

 

[Nonnamags]

Will do - cheers!