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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

This is my first post, so hello everyone and sorry if its posted in the wrong section!

Can anyone advise me on whether a business can be run from a residential property rental in France?

We have been running retreats in Ibiza and are looking to move (permanently) to France with our adopted daughter.

Initially we are looking to rent a large rural property with gites - 10 bedrooms or so in the PO or Aix areas. We have located a few which tick the boxes.

However, I cannot find any info on the legalities of running a retreat from a residential rented property, or what type of licence etc may be required. Or even if its legal to run a business from a residential rented property in France.

Any help, advice or info would be fantastic!

Thanks in advance

Rhyan
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I dont live in Canada BTW - I have no idea how I have managed to list myself as a Expat there!
 

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Hello, welcome to our forum!

I'm not sure what you mean by a "retreat"......it can have several meanings / nuances for me.

Probably the best solution is to talk to a notaire in your target area. They will give free advice, and will know the local regulations and they way they are applied.

We've run chambres d'hôte and vacation appartements from home without any problems, along with many others in the village. If you start catering for more than a few ( max 8 I think) then you will be into French hotel regulations. I suspect that if your retreat has a "health" implication then you will be into heavy French regulations.

Perhaps others can help?

DejW

Hi,

This is my first post, so hello everyone and sorry if its posted in the wrong section!

Can anyone advise me on whether a business can be run from a residential property rental in France?

We have been running retreats in Ibiza and are looking to move (permanently) to France with our adopted daughter.

Initially we are looking to rent a large rural property with gites - 10 bedrooms or so in the PO or Aix areas. We have located a few which tick the boxes.

However, I cannot find any info on the legalities of running a retreat from a residential rented property, or what type of licence etc may be required. Or even if its legal to run a business from a residential rented property in France.

Any help, advice or info would be fantastic!

Thanks in advance

Rhyan
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the super quick reply!

Should explain myself a little more :)

Our packages include yoga, hiking, meditation, healthy eating, mountain biking, etc and we also run photography workshops.

Do you think the catering for 8 would include myself, wife and daughter or exclude?

Thanks again!
 

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As I understand it "chambres d'hôte" means your guests are part of the family and must eat one meal a day with the family. As far as I know there are no particular regulations controlling CH. For this reason CH are limited to 8 guests. More than that you are a "hotel" and subject to regulations.

In 2001 when I came to France I stayed at an intensive, residential language which could handle 15 students. The couple ran the school as an extension of their family....language lessons at breakfast, lunch, dinner etc in addition to the classroom! They complained that they had to equip their kitchen to hotel standards. Not sure what this means today, but I think it means at least 2 large industrial stainless steel sinks, separate basin for staff to wash. Lots of signs about hygiene. I think you need some form of certificate to cook for this number.....welcome to France!

DejW
 

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Hi and welcome to the forum!

As far as running a business from your home, that is generally pretty easy to do. If you're renting, you do need to notify the landlord and make sure there aren't any "obvious" issues (like adequate parking, or blocking the public roadway). And, depending on what sort of business you set up (individual business like an AE or an "incorporated" business like an EURL, SARL or something similar), you may need or want to declare part of the property for business use (because that affects the type and amount of taxe fonciere and taxe d'habitation on the property).

As far as having people staying there for retreats, you'll most definitely run into the various health and hygiene regulations involved in hosting guests like that. Probably best to talk to the local CCI (Chambre de Commerce et d'Industrie) so they can point you in the right direction.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for the info - I am over in a few days so will speak with the CCI - thank you!

Hi and welcome to the forum!

As far as running a business from your home, that is generally pretty easy to do. If you're renting, you do need to notify the landlord and make sure there aren't any "obvious" issues (like adequate parking, or blocking the public roadway). And, depending on what sort of business you set up (individual business like an AE or an "incorporated" business like an EURL, SARL or something similar), you may need or want to declare part of the property for business use (because that affects the type and amount of taxe fonciere and taxe d'habitation on the property).

As far as having people staying there for retreats, you'll most definitely run into the various health and hygiene regulations involved in hosting guests like that. Probably best to talk to the local CCI (Chambre de Commerce et d'Industrie) so they can point you in the right direction.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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I notice you're talking gites, not chambres d'hôte. so the rules will be different (eg. no restriction to 8 guests). You will need to tell them at the CCI whether or not you are planning to cater for your guests.
Cheers
 

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I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, but you should be aware of the culture surrounding "cures thermales" .....spa treatments. There are a number of chains offering spa treatment at the many centres dotted around France......for example...

Chaîne Thermale du Soleil - Stations Thermales

In France you can go to your GP, and get a prescription for a 3 week (yes, 3 weeks!) stay at a spa. The fees of the spa are paid for by the sécu (=NHS) - the patient has to pay for the accommodation. We had a spa in the village and we offered rental appartements and chambre d'hôtes to these people. The spa treatment takes about 2 hours each day so the rest of the day is "holiday". These spas offer "healthy eating", "gym", "beauty treatments" etc as optional paid extras -captive audience!

We have talked to many of our guests - most of them charming and interesting people. It's deep in the French culture that they resent paying for health treatment....they've paid the cotisations (=NI) and they don't want to pay a second time!

The point I'm making is that you may have difficulty selling a health orientated residential product that is not funded by the sécu. I'm sure there must be "healthy" gîtes etc in France, so I'm sure you are already into heavy research.

Good luck.....tell us how get on?

DejW
 

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I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, but you should be aware of the culture surrounding "cures thermales" .....spa treatments. There are a number of chains offering spa treatment at the many centres dotted around France......for example...

Chaîne Thermale du Soleil - Stations Thermales

In France you can go to your GP, and get a prescription for a 3 week (yes, 3 weeks!) stay at a spa. The fees of the spa are paid for by the sécu (=NHS) - the patient has to pay for the accommodation. We had a spa in the village and we offered rental appartements and chambre d'hôtes to these people. The spa treatment takes about 2 hours each day so the rest of the day is "holiday". These spas offer "healthy eating", "gym", "beauty treatments" etc as optional paid extras -captive audience!

We have talked to many of our guests - most of them charming and interesting people. It's deep in the French culture that they resent paying for health treatment....they've paid the cotisations (=NI) and they don't want to pay a second time!

The point I'm making is that you may have difficulty selling a health orientated residential product that is not funded by the sécu. I'm sure there must be "healthy" gîtes etc in France, so I'm sure you are already into heavy research.

Good luck.....tell us how get on?

DejW
This is what the OP stated:

Our packages include yoga, hiking, meditation, healthy eating, mountain biking, etc and we also run photography workshops.
Not really the same as the cure thermale, although there is a degree of cross-over, and I suspect that across the range of activities they might very well enjoy success (provided they can get the marketing right).
 

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http://www.ouvrir-chambres-hotes-le...re-locataire-pour-creer-chambres-d-hotes.html
seems to give sensible advice.

One point it raises, I don't know whether or not this would be an issue for you, is that any hypothetical business income could not be included towards the secure income of 3x rental that you would be required to prove in order to secure the tenancy. You'd need that level of income from another source, initially at least, and the business income would be on top of that; so for a 10 bedroom property in tip top condition in a prime location, that could be quite a tall order.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi,

Thank you for the info!

mot of our clients are from the UK, USA or Spain - so we are looking at the tourist market. Its definitely food for thought though.

I will let you all know how things pan out!

:)




I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, but you should be aware of the culture surrounding "cures thermales" .....spa treatments. There are a number of chains offering spa treatment at the many centres dotted around France......for example...

Chaîne Thermale du Soleil - Stations Thermales

In France you can go to your GP, and get a prescription for a 3 week (yes, 3 weeks!) stay at a spa. The fees of the spa are paid for by the sécu (=NHS) - the patient has to pay for the accommodation. We had a spa in the village and we offered rental appartements and chambre d'hôtes to these people. The spa treatment takes about 2 hours each day so the rest of the day is "holiday". These spas offer "healthy eating", "gym", "beauty treatments" etc as optional paid extras -captive audience!

We have talked to many of our guests - most of them charming and interesting people. It's deep in the French culture that they resent paying for health treatment....they've paid the cotisations (=NI) and they don't want to pay a second time!

The point I'm making is that you may have difficulty selling a health orientated residential product that is not funded by the sécu. I'm sure there must be "healthy" gîtes etc in France, so I'm sure you are already into heavy research.

Good luck.....tell us how get on?

DejW
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hi,

Thank you for the link and good point raised.

Its beginning to look like a bit of a nightmare!

I am flying out in a week or so and think i need to look at some legal advice. We will eventually purchase a property, but the first year or so would be a rental.

******!

Thank you though :)




http://www.ouvrir-chambres-hotes-le...re-locataire-pour-creer-chambres-d-hotes.html
seems to give sensible advice.

One point it raises, I don't know whether or not this would be an issue for you, is that any hypothetical business income could not be included towards the secure income of 3x rental that you would be required to prove in order to secure the tenancy. You'd need that level of income from another source, initially at least, and the business income would be on top of that; so for a 10 bedroom property in tip top condition in a prime location, that could be quite a tall order.
 
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