Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad banner
1 - 20 of 75 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm going for Residencia in August and puzzled about healthcare.

To get residencia I apparently need to show some private health cover. That is OK. But what then happens to my EHIC card ?

Can I still get healthcare in the UK?


Are then any good healthcare insurance providers?


TIA
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,153 Posts
I'm going for Residencia in August and puzzled about healthcare.

To get residencia I apparently need to show some private health cover. That is OK. But what then happens to my EHIC card ?

Can I still get healthcare in the UK?


Are then any good healthcare insurance providers?


TIA
[Residency certificate not residencia]

As an early retiree, you will need private health care plus proof of income/savings.

Your existing EHIC will then not be accepted anywhere. You will need travel insurance for visits back to UK etc.


Look at Spanish health care providers like ASSSA, Sanitas or even some of the smaller ones.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,866 Posts
By applying for residency you are stating that Spain will be your home. You can't still have residency in the UK. This means that you shouldn't be able to access the NHS, however as the UK isn't quite as linked up with these things such as Sweden I don't suppose anyone will know if you return to the UK for treatment. Keep in mind though it isn't strictly legal and it might be seen as cheating the system. Remember how incensed people can be with the idea that Immigrants come to the UK to falsely abuse benefits. Well many UK expats sadly do the same
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,423 Posts
Unfortunately. as an early retiree you will not be entitled to an EHIC from either the UK or Spain. My husband and I were in that position for 8 years until he became a state pensioner (UK state pensioners can get the S1 form which means the UK Government pays for their state healthcare in Spain and once registered they can apply for a UK-issued EHIC which covers them for treatment when visiting any EU country other than Spain, their country of residence). Those who are working or self-employed and paying social security contributions in Spain can get the Spanish version of the EHIC, called the TSE. But those who are early retired get neither and must rely on travel insurance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
By applying for residency you are stating that Spain will be your home.......
This is wrong.

All the Residence Certificate does is to provide the right to reside in Spain for a period of longer than three months. It shows that as an EU citizen you have produced evidence of sufficient financial means to support yourself (and your dependents) to live in Spain.

IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU ARE STATING THAT SPAIN IS YOUR HOME!!!

I have scores of clients who visit Spain each year for between 90 to 182 days, who, as they are legally required to do, hold a Spanish Residence Certificate. Yet they are tax resident in the UK and retain all their UK benefits.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
37,068 Posts
This is wrong.

All the Residence Certificate does is to provide the right to reside in Spain for a period of longer than three months. It shows that as an EU citizen you have produced evidence of sufficient financial means to support yourself (and your dependents) to live in Spain.

IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU ARE STATING THAT SPAIN IS YOUR HOME!!!

I have scores of clients who visit Spain each year for between 90 to 182 days, who, as they are legally required to do, hold a Spanish Residence Certificate. Yet they are tax resident in the UK and retain all their UK benefits.
BUT - registered as resident or not, once you've been here 90 consecutive days if you continue to use the EHIC you stand a VERY good chance of it being refused & having to pay for treatment. Spain regards you as resident at that point, & since the EHIC is for holidaymakers, they will no longer accept it, if a flag goes up in the system that the pattern of use suggests residence.

Also, once you have been out of the UK for 6 months (maybe even travelling around, not staying anywhere long enough to have to register), as far as the UK is concerned, you will no longer be resident there, & again, the EHIC will be invalid.

So even if Spain accepts it, the UK might refuse to pay the bill, & Spain will send the bill to you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
BUT - registered as resident or not, once you've been here 90 consecutive days if you continue to use the EHIC you stand a VERY good chance of it being refused & having to pay for treatment. Spain regards you as resident at that point, & since the EHIC is for holidaymakers, they will no longer accept it, if a flag goes up in the system that the pattern of use suggests residence.

Also, once you have been out of the UK for 6 months (maybe even travelling around, not staying anywhere long enough to have to register), as far as the UK is concerned, you will no longer be resident there, & again, the EHIC will be invalid.

So even if Spain accepts it, the UK might refuse to pay the bill, & Spain will send the bill to you.
You are right and wrong!

You are absolutely correct that if you live in Spain for more than 183 days then you are tax resident in Spain, and you loose UK benefits, including the EHIC.

However for those living in Spain for more than 3 months, but less than 183 days then they can continue to enjoy full UK benefits (including the use of the EHIC) as they are tax resident in the UK.

As part of my job, I have written confirmation from the Overseas Healthcare Team at the DWP which confirms this position.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
37,068 Posts
You are right and wrong!

You are absolutely correct that if you live in Spain for more than 183 days then you are tax resident in Spain, and you loose UK benefits, including the EHIC.

However for those living in Spain for more than 3 months, but less than 183 days then they can continue to enjoy full UK benefits (including the use of the EHIC) as they are tax resident in the UK.

As part of my job, I have written confirmation from the Overseas Healthcare Team at the DWP which confirms this position.
No, I'm just right...out of the UK for 6 months & you lose healthcare including the EHIC as you are no longer tax resident.

In Spain for 90+ days & as far as SPAIN is concerned you are resident, and if the system flags the EHIC, they will refuse it - which is nothing to do with the DWP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,866 Posts
Blanco 53. Are you a qualified Spanish lawyer or an assessor? Your argument seems as if you trying to bend the meaning of the law in order to generate a client base. This is the first time my wife who is a Fiscal advisor has seen this interpretation of the law and is interested to know if you have tested it legally
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
Blanco 53. Are you a qualified Spanish lawyer or an assessor? Your argument seems as if you trying to bend the meaning of the law in order to generate a client base. This is the first time my wife who is a Fiscal advisor has seen this interpretation of the law and is interested to know if you have tested it legally
Yes, I have many clients who use my services, a number in particular who are euphemistically referred to as snowbirds. They travel out for the winter spending between 4-6 months in Spain, but always less than 182 days.

As you will know Royal Decree 240/07 requires that all EU citizens planning to reside in Spain for more than 3 months need to register in person at the Oficina de Extranjeros.

My clients have no intention of becoming permanently resident in Spain, but as they are staying in Spain for 3 months plus, registration is a legal requirement. In order that my clients were not disadvantaged and end up on the wrong side of the law, I initially wrote to the necessary agencies both here and in the UK to gain their understanding of the position. After much toing and froing, I had two letters that could support my clients' applications.

I use this at Oficina de Extranjeros, and they are more than satisfied.

My clients are left in no doubt by both me and the Oficina de Extranjeros that if they stay longer than 183 days they will become Spanish Tax Resident, and no longer enjoy the UK benefits.

To date, there have been no issues!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
No, I'm just right...out of the UK for 6 months & you lose healthcare as you are no longer tax resident.

In Spain for 90+ days & as far as SPAIN is concerned you are resident, and if the system flags the EHIC, they will refuse it - which is nothing to do with the DWP.
No, I fear it's you that is wrong.

Please see my reply above.

A number of my clients have used their EHIC without a problem. As they say, the proof is in the pudding!!!
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
37,068 Posts
No, I fear it's you that is wrong.

Please see my reply above.

A number of my clients have used their EHIC without a problem. As they say, the proof is in the pudding!!!
Yes people do get away with it, especially if they hardly use it - but not everyone does.

The proof, as you say, is in the pudding, & I personallly know people whose EHICs have been refused. Including my own father who was taken ill when visiting & was unable to leave. It took a while to sort out his S1 (which arrived just after he died) & therefore his resident status.

As soon as he'd been using his EHIC for 3 months i received a phone call to tell me that it would no longer be accepted, because my father was now a resident. I explained that we were waiting for the S1 & they continued to treat him.

I know others who have had their cards refused too, in similar circumstances. Also others who have had theirs refused even though they were simply frequent visitors for a couple of weeks at a time.They could prove this, & the cards were again accepted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
Yes people do get away with it, especially if they hardly use it - but not everyone does.

The proof, as you say, is in the pudding, & I personallly know people whose EHICs have been refused. Including my own father who was taken ill when visiting & was unable to leave. It took a while to sort out his S1 (which arrived just after he died) & therefore his resident status.

As soon as he'd been using his EHIC for 3 months i received a phone call to tell me that it would no longer be accepted, because my father was now a resident. I explained that we were waiting for the S1 & they continued to treat him.

I know others who have had their cards refused too, in similar circumstances. Also others who have had theirs refused even though they were simply frequent visitors for a couple of weeks at a time.They could prove this, & the cards were again accepted.
I'm sorry for your loss.

I can only speak from professional experience. The applications that I have been involved with have been accepted by Oficina de Extranjeros, with appropriate documentation confirming that my clients can rely on UK benefits, providing their visit(s) do not exceed 183 days a year.

I have 100% application success rate, and my clients are more than happy and the authorities both here and in the UK satisfied with arrangements.

This, of course, has a relatively short life span as things will change in March 2019. Awaiting Developments!
 

·
Registered
U.K.
Joined
·
9,332 Posts
Blanco 53. Are you a qualified Spanish lawyer or an assessor? Your argument seems as if you trying to bend the meaning of the law in order to generate a client base. This is the first time my wife who is a Fiscal advisor has seen this interpretation of the law and is interested to know if you have tested it legally
Yes, I have many clients who use my services, a number in particular who are euphemistically referred to as snowbirds. They travel out for the winter spending between 4-6 months in Spain, but always less than 182 days.

As you will know Royal Decree 240/07 requires that all EU citizens planning to reside in Spain for more than 3 months need to register in person at the Oficina de Extranjeros.

My clients have no intention of becoming permanently resident in Spain, but as they are staying in Spain for 3 months plus, registration is a legal requirement. In order that my clients were not disadvantaged and end up on the wrong side of the law, I initially wrote to the necessary agencies both here and in the UK to gain their understanding of the position. After much toing and froing, I had two letters that could support my clients' applications.

I use this at Oficina de Extranjeros, and they are more than satisfied.

My clients are left in no doubt by both me and the Oficina de Extranjeros that if they stay longer than 183 days they will become Spanish Tax Resident, and no longer enjoy the UK benefits.

To date, there have been no issues!
To which question was it a yes to, Yes you are a qualified Spanish lawyer or assessor or was that a yes to the rest of the post? because that point is very important, especially when giving out advice, that you deem unequivocally correct and to be the absolute legal position, with no ramifications for those who are looking to move here for over the three month period.

If you are a qualified Spanish lawyer or assessor, then no doubt you can back up, with formal letters from the relevant Spanish authorities, that this is a way around the law as it stands now. However if you are an administrator, as you have mentioned before, that's a totally different matter. I would advocate that you should, caveat your declaration that an EHIC can get you a residency card, will cover you here for all medical matters and that the NHS will continue to cover you in the U.K. despite being registered as resident in another country, with a simple statement, stating, that in your opinion and in your experience at your local office this method works but can not be relied on throughout Spain because evidently it cannot.

I have just noted that in your final post you said " in your personal experience " that is the nub of the matter..... it doesn't make it a fact in law or practice, it's how you get round the issue for your clients who are here for what you and they presumably deem a long holiday, and from that perspective, what you say makes sense, clearly if ones on holiday, ones not really resident but the Spanish say you are and the majority of folks come on here asking questions about healthcare do with a view to living here permanently.

Going back to Kaipa have you tested it legally? Do your clients know that the EHIC could be refused at any point after a period of time. These are all very valid questions when giving and receiving advice especially in relation to healthcare, which a previous poster has said can have fairly dire consequences.

I'm interested in all these answers because one of my daughters is looking to move here temporarily and if she can avoid private healthcare and retain NHS care she'd be delighted. Do you just show the EHIC etc is there special paperwork etc
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,866 Posts
Blanc 53. I don't want to get in a spat with you I just would like to fully understand how you reach this interpretation of the law as it seems so totally different from the view of my wife's employer which is a large spanish/ swedish law firm.

For example I know of one Swedish person who has residencia here but lives less than 183 days. So she doesn't make a Spanish declaration here but does take advantage of having a SIP card ( which I don't understand how she has this). Every 3 months she signs a form with the bank declaring herself as a non-resident to prevent her account being blocked. So as you see there is a certain amount of secrecy going on here. How do you get around this with your clients?. Surely they must register with their banks as residents which means the hacienda should see them as tax-residents here. If your position is correct then it begs the question why they have a non-resident status and a resident status seeing as you see it as meaning nothing and that everything depends on your tax status. Surely if you are resident in one country then that is your home. Can you say that you live in Spain but that you don't pay tax there because you live for more of the year in the UK but the UK isn't your home? Seems slightly weird to me. Maybe you should show us the letters you have confirming your position. The fact that there has been no problems as you say does not prove it is legal just that no one has been caught.

Just as aside. Are you Spanish or British? Your English is clearly native and you have a knowledge of UK culture concordant with a native. However you must be a native Spanish speaker to be a qualified Spanish lawyer. Don't mean to pry but there aren't many people on this forum who are as qualified and skilled with languages as you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,866 Posts
So just to get this straight. Blanco53: You are saying that having residencia because you reside for more than 90 days in Spain will not necessarily disbar you from receiving free HHS healthcare in the UK if you do not live in Spain for more than 183 days?
Interesting practical point is that in order to register on the NHS you have to provide proof of residency. Normally they ask for Council Tax forms or recent utility bills ( the last 3 months). So would you not have to lie a bit if you wanted to join a new practice and therefore would this not demonstrate a flaw in your argument. There must be countless other situations where similar problems arise which require the Snowbird to be economical with the truth. Maybe if you haven't lived in the UK you are unaware of how the system differs from Spain
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
This is wrong.

All the Residence Certificate does is to provide the right to reside in Spain for a period of longer than three months. It shows that as an EU citizen you have produced evidence of sufficient financial means to support yourself (and your dependents) to live in Spain.

IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU ARE STATING THAT SPAIN IS YOUR HOME!!!

I have scores of clients who visit Spain each year for between 90 to 182 days, who, as they are legally required to do, hold a Spanish Residence Certificate. Yet they are tax resident in the UK and retain all their UK benefits.
Blanco 53

Could yo please contact me by return to find out more about your services? Do you have a website link?

My wife and I, non EU, are going to Spain for 6 months at the end of October and need assistance on getting a Residence Certificate.

Thanks,

Lou
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
37,068 Posts
Blanco 53

Could yo please contact me by return to find out more about your services? Do you have a website link?

My wife and I, non EU, are going to Spain for 6 months at the end of October and need assistance on getting a Residence Certificate.

Thanks,

Lou
If you are non-EU you won't be able to get a 'residence certificate' - you need a visa before you can do anything.

Contact your nearest Spanish Consulate & they will tell exactly what they require of you.
 
1 - 20 of 75 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top