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Discussion Starter #1
Racism is an Opinion.
a personal one mostly, my understanding of it is that you expect people of a racial Group to act in a certain way.

If you double check and check again for any possible loopholes in a Business Contract that you have with Asians, or Semites, r Orientals??
does that make you racist? or prudent?

Racism is based on perceptions and expectations.
If I automatically, based on past experience, expect the worst from people of some races, am I racist/ or am I entitled to my opinion?

please! I am asking for a discussion that is subjective without being personal.

I do Not want a return of white rule, I think Apartheid was a crime against humanity and would take up arms against the return of anyone who feels that
way.
I have found racism everywhere, mostly covert in Western Society and overt in Africa.
I think its part of our make up.
Us and them.
 

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Expecting the worst from someone because they belong to a certain racial group is racist, but technically you are entitled to your own opinion, aren't you?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Expecting the worst from someone because they belong to a certain racial group is racist, but technically you are entitled to your own opinion, aren't you?
Thank you for your response,and ,partly, thats my point.
We are entitled to our own opinions.
but Society frowns.
I dont think Society has the right to judge,its fickle,, and centred on what a small segment believe is the norm.
 

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yes everybody is entitled to there opinion i agree.
society sets its own bench mark as to what is exceptable and what is not, but usualy this is driven by a very vocal minority not the majority.

goverments both local and national then pander to this vocal minority.

if i can give an example. i small town near where i lived in scotland, some years ago, decided not to put christmas decorations up in the local mall. there reason, it would upset the large muslim comunity in the town. to there credit it was the local muslim council of elders that was the first to complain. although they did not celebrate the religeous festival of christmas they did enjoy the holiday of christmas especialy the decorations.

i am not sure if the current problems in the uk should be classed as racisim or biggotry or are they two sides to the same coin.

when joe blogs sat at home watching the news sees protesters jeering and cheering the coffins of british soldiers being brought home to be laid to rest from afganistan or iraq what is he to think. I know it is a small minority doing this but they are seen to represent the majority.

i dont think of myself as racist, but when england loose to wales at rugby and im muttering "i hate those welsh bas***ds" does that make a racist?
 

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DefinitionsRacism involves the belief in racial differences, which acts as a justification for non-equal treatment (which some regard as "discrimination") of members of that race.[5] The term is commonly used negatively and is usually associated with race-based prejudice, violence, dislike, discrimination, or oppression, the term can also have varying and contested definitions. Racialism is a related term, sometimes intended to avoid these negative meanings.

As a word, racism is an “-ism”, a belief that can be described by a word ending in the suffix -ism, pertaining to race. As its etymology would suggest, its usage is relatively recent and as such its definition is not entirely settled. The Oxford English Dictionary defines racism as the “belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races” and the expression of such prejudice,[11][12] while the Merriam-Webster's Dictionary defines it as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority or inferiority of a particular racial group, and alternatively that it is also the prejudice based on such a belief.[13] The Macquarie Dictionary defines racism as: "the belief that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate others."

LegalThe UN does not define “racism”; however, it does define “racial discrimination”: According to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.[14]

This definition does not make any difference between discrimination based on ethnicity and race, in part because the distinction between the two remains debatable among anthropologists.[15] Similarly, in British law the phrase racial group means "any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin".[16]

from wikipedia.
if you accept these definitions the the whole of europes bloody past of war and invasion is based on racism.
 

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the trouble is that humans are tribal , and as such they will always gravitate towards those like themselves and repell, even crush those who are in a different tribe. If its not race, then it'll be religion, culture, football teams, sports clubs, darts teams...................Of course, these days we've learnt to be accepting and understanding - well most of us, but that instinct to belong to our own "tribe" and be suspicious/untrusting of others can still be a subconsious underlying issue. Thank heavens we dont still try to conquer and abuse other "tribes" and thank heavens white europeans no longer think that they're "top dogs"!!!

As far as things are in the UK, its gone too far now. Racism is a card used for anything that upsets people and is abused when alot of the time these days, its not racial hatred, but simply racial awareness. In SA, I dont know how things are

Jo xxx
 

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Discussion Starter #7
And I would agree that racial discrimination as outlined above is wrong in exactly the same way that the South African Version of Affirmative Action is then racist as it then elevates one race over others.
I also disagree with Institutionalised racism,

But I'm talking about individual accusations of racism.

If my experience of Morlocks is based on the fact that the last 10 Morlocks out of a total of 12 I met, tried to eat me and I therefore prefer not to mix with Morlocks, does that make me a racist iro of Morlocks?

In the same way,Eloi are weak, dont produce anything and spend all their available time bonking, so if I prefer my daughter not to marry an Eloi, am I racist?
 

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And I would agree that racial discrimination as outlined above is wrong in exactly the same way that the South African Version of Affirmative Action is then racist as it then elevates one race over others.
I also disagree with Institutionalised racism,

But I'm talking about individual accusations of racism.

If my experience of Morlocks is based on the fact that the last 10 Morlocks out of a total of 12 I met, tried to eat me and I therefore prefer not to mix with Morlocks, does that make me a racist iro of Morlocks?

In the same way,Eloi are weak, dont produce anything and spend all their available time bonking, so if I prefer my daughter not to marry an Eloi, am I racist?
are morlocks by definition racist towards eloi, does it then make it acceptable to hate them and non racist?

would you allow your daughter to marry an irish lad that was lazy unproductive and wanted to bonk all day? is it the race you dislike or the values of the majority of that race?

daxk you have given me a head ache cause all i can think of is questions and no answers.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
are morlocks by definition racist towards eloi, does it then make it acceptable to hate them and non racist?


would you allow your daughter to marry an irish lad that was lazy unproductive and wanted to bonk all day? is it the race you dislike or the values of the majority of that race?
T
daxk you have given me a head ache cause all i can think of is questions and no answers.
The Morlocks see the Eloi as a resource to be used.
The Majority cannot have a mass value to be disliked unless they have a culture of lets say wife beating or Polygamy, a which Point I dont care what NATIONALITY or Race the prospective suitor is, he will be found one day by the Archeologists as a Sacrifice:D
its merely a discussion without rancor or accusation, there are no right or wrong answers.
but it is a headache.
:p
 

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racism would maybe better defined as hatred of a stereo type. one day you might meet a morlock you realy liked and find they are not as bad as you first thought.



and for all these morlock to want to eat you can it be said that you are lazy unproductive and like to bonk all day:D:D:D
in the spirit of non racism feel free to pick only one of these terrible traits that you will be forever labled with:eyebrows:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
racism would maybe better defined as hatred of a stereo type. one day you might meet a morlock you realy liked and find they are not as bad as you first thought.



and for all these morlock to want to eat you can it be said that you are lazy unproductive and like to bonk all day:D:D:D
in the spirit of non racism feel free to pick only one of these terrible traits that you will be forever labled with:eyebrows:
I am a typical Eloi!!:cheer2::cheer2::flock:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Back to a serious note.
I think racism and accusations of racism have been turned into a guilt trip to benefit people who have an agenda.

I personally feel and believe in equal rights, education and opportunities for all, irrespective of race, colour, creed or Nationality.

The Anti-Apartheid movement, necessary as it was, also created a monster that is used to excuse non-performance on a global scale and any critique is automatically labelled as racist, as that shuts people up.
(Malawi and Somalia are a prime current example)

This thread is a prime example.

there have been almost a hundred views by probably 20 unique people, yet only three people have had the courage to comment.....
 

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Back to a serious note.
I think racism and accusations of racism have been turned into a guilt trip to benefit people who have an agenda.

I personally feel and believe in equal rights, education and opportunities for all, irrespective of race, colour, creed or Nationality.

The Anti-Apartheid movement, necessary as it was, also created a monster that is used to excuse non-performance on a global scale and any critique is automatically labelled as racist, as that shuts people up.
(Malawi and Somalia are a prime current example)

This thread is a prime example.

there have been almost a hundred views by probably 20 unique people, yet only three people have had the courage to comment.....
If it's anything that I dislike about SA it is the total obsession with race. That is all that everyone talks about day in and day out. Black people complain that white people have too much and they have so little, that the mines must be nationalised so that the wealth can be distributed and white people complain that everything that is wrong with SA is the fault of the black man etc etc. White people use the K word left right and center and the other day there was a near miss traffic accident in front of me between a small car and a taxi and the first thing that happened was that the taxi driver got out of his taxi and went up to the woman in the small car and said ' what the [email protected]#k are you doing you white b!#ch'. I mean what's that all about? Everything is attributed to skin colour and coming from Sweden where people are almost too politically correct it is a hard pill to swallow. I can with some confidence say that I am not a racist, I do not attribute stuff that happens to me or other people to skin colour. Yes I can get very irritated when I have been queuing at Home Affairs for five hours only to be told that they cannot help or I am in the wrong place etc but I do not attribute this to skin colour, just to people who have no interest in helping, why that is I do not know. Yes I am horrified when I hear about serious crime such as murders, rapes etc but again I do not attribute this to skin colour. Math and common sense tells me that since the majority of people in this country are black it would make sense that most crime is committed by this majority. My husband's family are true white dutch reformed church Afrikaaners from the Free State. If you ask them, they do not consider themselves racists, they just think that everything bad about SA is attributable to the black man and they do not consider that racist, its just a fact, and any argument is always backed up by the bible. It is very hard to have a discussion with people who think like that. I mean how do you compete with the word of god (especially since I am an atheist). Anyway, there are a lot of white people here feeling awfully sorry for themselves and there are a lot of black people with a huge chip on their shoulder but does that make them racists, I do not know. 'Stepping off my soap box'.
 

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Back to a serious note.
I think racism and accusations of racism have been turned into a guilt trip to benefit people who have an agenda.

I personally feel and believe in equal rights, education and opportunities for all, irrespective of race, colour, creed or Nationality.

The Anti-Apartheid movement, necessary as it was, also created a monster that is used to excuse non-performance on a global scale and any critique is automatically labelled as racist, as that shuts people up.
(Malawi and Somalia are a prime current example)

This thread is a prime example.

there have been almost a hundred views by probably 20 unique people, yet only three people have had the courage to comment.....
i think people are scared to discuss the topic in case they say somthing that then gets them branded as a racist.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Excellent Post Saartjie, I think the difference between Sa and te Rest of the World is that SA's DO talk about it.
and the only time I can see that changing is about 5 or 6 generations down when as a result of AIDS and low birth rates the majority population is neither white nor black but coloured.

I can understand your experience,quite honestly, when Mrs van der Merwe was behind the Counter at Home affairs, the disinterest was equally bad.
I think it has to do with positions of Petty Authority.
:)

As to the Bible thumpers , a fast way to shut them up is to point out the predominant skin colour of Israel at the time.
Ole JC was a very very tanned man !! lol
its a function of climate and Darwin.
 

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Back to a serious note.
I think racism and accusations of racism have been turned into a guilt trip to benefit people who have an agenda.
On the other foot you have the people who play the "you are playing the race card" card.

This type of person is doing something patently absurd by actually denying that there is never a reason to suspect someone of being racist when in fact in this country racism is everywhere. I think it's futile to try and pretend so much of what belies the heart of so many issues and "opinions" about various things in this country isn't race intolerance.

Racism does exist. In South Africa it exists en masse. Let's not put our heads in the sand and pretend that most of the time when the race card is played it's not because....well.....someone was being racist. That would be an insult to our intelligence.

Now that's not to say racism is such a terrible or horrific crime until someone acts on their prejudice. Everyone has the right to be treated as an individual and to their liberty until they do something to suggest they're not worthy of it. South Africa has too much apartheid apologists (people who suggest Apartheid wasn't so bad etc) and if anything not nearly enough race guilt, rather than too much in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
On the other foot you have the people who play the "you are playing the race card" card.

This type of person is doing something patently absurd by actually denying that there is never a reason to suspect someone of being racist when in fact in this country racism is everywhere. I think it's futile to try and pretend so much of what belies the heart of so many issues and "opinions" about various things in this country isn't race intolerance.

Racism does exist. In South Africa it exists en masse. Let's not put our heads in the sand and pretend that most of the time when the race card is played it's not because....well.....someone was being racist. That would be an insult to our intelligence.

Now that's not to say racism is such a terrible or horrific crime until someone acts on their prejudice. Everyone has the right to be treated as an individual and to their liberty until they do something to suggest they're not worthy of it. South Africa has too much apartheid apologists and if anything not nearly enough race guilt, rather than too much in my opinion.
Excellent Points, KoC
The only one I dont agree with is the Guilt part,
why should someone who did not benefit from Apartheid, be punished for it?
the majority of young white people in SA today did not benefit from Apartheid.

why should they pay for it?

If you feel that where they live and the education of their parents benefited them
then you need to reduce everyone to the lowest common denominater, ie do away with property ownership, demolish all the houses and convert to Communism where the State allocatess living quarters.
AA effectively limits personal career growth already so there aint much you can do about that.
 

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Personally I wish people would just speak their minds and we could stop messing about and get to the real issues. I wish people could just come out and say what most of us know to be true. They hate South Africa because now it's run by blacks.Nothing more, nothing less. Not everyone but a great deal of the people who left, left because we have a black government and they want nothing more than to make others believe that because of this the country is now on some downward spiral. They love reading bad news about South Africa because it validates in their minds their beliefs. If they can't find the actualy evidence of the country going into blazes they'll just flat out make up stuff about flame throwers on all cars and sleeping with guns under pillows and other codswallop.

I mean let's admit that a fair amount of what's written in the name of criticising the new South Africa by people who left is based in racism. I'm not saying all, but a good proportion of it. You can deny that until the cows come home but I bet in your heart you know of course it's true. If I only had a buck for everytime I've heard someone say something like "If they let these ******* take over I'm leaving this place !". All those people suddenly had a change of heart or vanished into thin air ? Because there sure as heck were a lot of them.
 

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Excellent Points, KoC
The only one I dont agree with is the Guilt part,
why should someone who did not benefit from Apartheid, be punished for it?
the majority of young white people in SA today did not benefit from Apartheid.

why should they pay for it?

If you feel that where they live and the education of their parents benefited them
then you need to reduce everyone to the lowest common denominater, ie do away with property ownership, demolish all the houses and convert to Communism where the State allocatess living quarters.
AA effectively limits personal career growth already so there aint much you can do about that.
How are they paying for it ? White South Africans remain by far the richest group and depite their high base their average income grew close to 180% in the past 10 years related to inflation. White unemployment remains at around 5%. What is it in Ireland by the way ?

I don't think the intention of AA was punishment. It was just to deal with a very real reality : That if whites weren't encouraged or given incentives to hire other races they simply wouldn't do it (yes, because of pre existing prejudices). And that's a fact I think you can agree on.

Even today if a black person gets a job over a white it's assumed he did not get it on merit. Even TODAY ! So how do you expect society to integrate without this incentive based AA and BEE with such prevelent attitudes ?
 
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