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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm an Indian citizen living and working in Dubai,

I saw a post on Linkedin for an 'English copywriter', where one of the requirements was 'must be a native English speaker'. All my education has been in English and since it is the primary language I use in both my personal as well as professional life, I went ahead and applied, along with a few links to some of my published work(I have worked as a content writer previously),

Got a reply a few minutes ago saying that 'As per the post, I need a native English speaker and so I cannot consider you for this position'.

I mean, wow, are you for real??? Why not just post 'we need a white person' on the job post then? Ridiculous.
 

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Not all white people are English native speakers.

Not all people who claim they can speak English, can speak English like a native.

E.g South Africans and Americans :)

Plenty of non-native English speakers in the region judging by those who write the laughable adverts in boards and on the TV, which are in Enhlush but not as an English native would recognise.
 

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HAHA - Yes! I'm sure if you search on this forum, you'll find other examples of outright silly job postings with very specific requirements on nationality, race, height, weight .....

It's disgusting but seems to exist in this part of the world.
 

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Unfortunately thats how it works in Dubai - blatantly. Its much more subtle in other parts of the world :)
Just few things for you to consider:
1. While you may have fit the profile perfectly, there might be 20 other Indians who would have bad/ different English who might apply for the job. Much more difficult for the recruiter to sift through the applications

2. While you may fit culturally with what the recruiter is looking for, probably a lot of Indians (or you can insert another nationality) will not be able to adjust to a "multicultural" office atmosphere.

3. You will see a lot of ads (probably not in your line of work) asking for only Indians (or other nationalities) - so it works both ways (and NO, two wrongs do not make a right)

It is wrong in many ways - but can't really do anything but move on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Not all white people are English native speakers.

Not all people who claim they can speak English, can speak English like a native.

E.g South Africans and Americans :)

Plenty of non-native English speakers in the region judging by those who write the laughable adverts in boards and on the TV, which are in Enhlush but not as an English native would recognise.
I'm just disappointed that I'm not being given a fair shot at a job due to my nationality. That's all :)
 

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It sucks, but are your CV and examples completely water tight?

I know people that when recruiting for copywriting and PR, a single misplaced apostrophe will see your application rejected.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
It sucks, but are your CV and examples completely water tight?

I know people that when recruiting for copywriting and PR, a single misplaced apostrophe will see your application rejected.
100% water tight.

I am in no way saying that I am the best person for the job, and that I'm better than everyone else. Just annoyed at the fact that I wasn't even given a chance to show that I speak and write as well as a 'native English speaker'.
 

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I'm just disappointed that I'm not being given a fair shot at a job due to my nationality. That's all :)
Is this a recruitment agency or a jobsworth, junior HR person? If it's the former, there's little you can do, it's up to them who they represent.

If it's a junior who is will not veer from their mental path, use LinkedIn to do a bit of detective work and try to get examples of copy in front of the decision maker.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Is this a recruitment agency or a jobsworth, junior HR person? If it's the former, there's little you can do, it's up to them who they represent.

If it's a junior who is will not veer from their mental path, use LinkedIn to do a bit of detective work and try to get examples of copy in front of the decision maker.
It's a recruitment agency- Jivaro Search
 

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Not all white people are English native speakers.

Not all people who claim they can speak English, can speak English like a native.

E.g South Africans and Americans :)

Plenty of non-native English speakers in the region judging by those who write the laughable adverts in boards and on the TV, which are in Enhlush but not as an English native would recognise.
Whaaaaaaat? Ek praat lekker Engles man!! (that's Afrikaans btw)

A "native speaker of English" refers to someone who has learned and used English from early childhood. It does not necessarily mean that it is the speaker's only language, but it means it is and has been the primary means of concept formation and communication.

I dont see this as racist, nor even a unfair due to nationality. They are looking for someone who can speak English fluently and understand all aspects of English.

Racist would be stating that if you are black brown of white, you shouldnt apply on that basis.

Here in South Africa alot of people say that they can speak and write English, however if you actually speak to them their English is more like a jumble and cross with other languages and writing is really poor.

this is just my 2c from the Dark Continent. :eyebrows:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Whaaaaaaat? Ek praat lekker Engles man!! (that's Afrikaans btw)

A "native speaker of English" refers to someone who has learned and used English from early childhood. It does not necessarily mean that it is the speaker's only language, but it means it is and has been the primary means of concept formation and communication.

I dont see this as racist, nor even a unfair due to nationality. They are looking for someone who can speak English fluently and understand all aspects of English.

Racist would be stating that if you are black brown of white, you shouldnt apply on that basis.

Here in South Africa alot of people say that they can speak and write English, however if you actually speak to them their English is more like a jumble and cross with other languages and writing is really poor.

this is just my 2c from the Dark Continent. :eyebrows:
Well then, why wouldn't they even consider my application? Surely a phone call would be enough to judge whether I can at least speak fluent English?

I have been speaking English since pre-school and ALL my education has been in English. I speak in English to my family and friends back in India, and here in Dubai as well. I have also sent her links to my published articles and recommendations from my editors at my previous organisations.
 

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Hi,
I am not in any way defending the position of the recruiter - I think they should maybe give you a chance.
But - there are still subtle differences between the English spoken and written by people who grew up and were educated in the UK and English speakers from India, Australia, South Africa and of course USA (where the differences are much more obvious).
A good example are the old English words used here by people who were brought up and educated in India (my wife, included) - thrice, avail, revert etc.
They simply say and write things in a different way to how I would.
This has an impact if the target audience are from a particular country (or even area of a country - as regional variations exist).
Cheers
Steve
 

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Give them a call, talk with the recruiter, ask questions about the vacancy and your intention to apply, get his/her name and apply afterwards with a nice email addressed to that person. It puts you in a stronger position as they have already spoken with you and know that you sound like a native...
 

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A good example are the old English words used here by people who were brought up and educated in India (my wife, included) - thrice, avail, revert etc.
They simply say and write things in a different way to how I would.
LOL, I am traveling in the UK for a few days and even though I did live here before I'm constantly amused by the stilted way train announcements are given, such as:

"Please alight here for [XYZ]". Alight? Who says that?

"The train is formed of four carriages." OK, "formed of" is technically accurate, but more colloquially I think most people would say "the train has four carriages (or cars)".

I don't remember this kind of false pomposity in the past.

Anyway, I don't think limiting a job to native speakers is so much racist as lazy and inaccurate. It would be better to say "must be able to speak English fluently and clearly." That might weed out many native English speakers as well of course. Including probably some from England. :p
 

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I have been speaking English since pre-school and ALL my education has been in English. I speak in English to my family and friends back in India, and here in Dubai as well. I have also sent her links to my published articles and recommendations from my editors at my previous organisations.
Because you haven't lived with English people, speaking English all the time.

Even with our American friends who can only speak English, we will often have to stop and explain references which they find inexplicable but to which any English speaking native would understand immediately. Simple phrases like, boot, trunk, crisps, chips, *****, Durex, pants mean something to a native English speaker which someone brought up in another English speaking country might misunderstand.

We didn't think it would be the Spanish Inquisition from you.
 

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Is it a job that requires you to talk to people? You may be able to speak and write grammatically correct English, better than a lot of British people. But (and I'm assuming here) you probably don't have a British accent with all the regional dialect and diction that you just can't learn.

As a new expat I'm getting a lot of the usual phonecalls for 'fantastic investment opportunities' and if you get a Phillipino/ Indian accent on the phone you instantly know they are trying to sell something you don't want and I put the phone down straight away. They have probably used English all their lives and have qualifications coming out of their ears too but the accent and the way they talk is an instant give-away.

A few of these companies are getting clever and employing people with British, regional accents, they start off with a jovial patter, get you talking ... then you find out what it is they are selling and even though I never buy or give information to cold callers, at least they keep you on the line for a bit longer while they try and build up a rapport with you.
 

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Bottomline, "Native English Speaker" in any job ad out here means people from the UK, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand and the US.

I am not considered a Native English Speaker but my sister who now holds an Australian passport is considered a Native English Speaker even though we both grew up in India and I speak WAY better English than her (luckily she's not on this forum :D )

To the OP, don't bother fighting the system. Any company that hires you based on your race is already discriminating against you and you really do not want to be a part of that organization. Focus on the multinationals who have strict policies against such discrimination. Good Luck!
 

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They mean someone who won't inadvertently send out a clear message they're not a native speaker.

Desiboy, I didn't pick it up from you, so I can understand why you felt hard done by.
 

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They mean someone who won't inadvertently send out a clear message they're not a native speaker.

Desiboy, I didn't pick it up from you, so I can understand why you felt hard done by.
'Proper' written English is the easy part to learn, speaking in conversation without giving away your 1st language isn't English is much, much harder. Even those who were born and lived all their lives in the UK still keep their family accent.

Accents are much harder to disguise and even harder to learn, even though I haven't lived in the westcountry for 15 years+, I still sound like Adge Cutler from the Wurzels.
 

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Having read what I presume is the JD, it would require proficiency in English or journalism to degree level. From what the OP has mentioned about his experience and the diction in his previous posts, it's looking like he's lacking those necessary skills.

Fault certainly on the recruiter for not mentioning qualifications or the fact he's not experienced enough. I guess when you face the deluge of random applicants any job opening here brings, "native speakers only" is convenient shorthand.

Keep on going Desiboy. Jobs and women, two things in life that will always guarantee more knock backs than successes.
 
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