[ParadiseSeeker]

Hi

We are moving from Scotland to the Javea/surrounding areas within the next few months. We're well assured in our research of areas and suchlike, having a good grasp of the area and the CB in general; and we know our plans in regard to property which is a bonus. That said, we certainly have much more hay raking involved in finding the right school for our 7 year old son.

Nonetheless, our 16 year old daughter has reluctantly agreed to embark on this life changing mission on the proviso she can alternate visits from and to current friends on a monthly basis! I'd like to acquire some information on the prospects for her insofar as further education/social life/possible apprenticeships? I would welcome all views and advice. She is unsure as to her vocation in life which, in some respects - although understandable - isn't helpful. However, that's what we have to go on. C'est la vie, I guess.

Can any of you assist in advising on teen/pre adult immigration and the pros and cons she may face?

Thank you in advance.

 

[jojo]

Hi

We are moving from Scotland to the Javea/surrounding areas within the next few months. We're well assured in our research of areas and suchlike, having a good grasp of the area and the CB in general; and we know our plans in regard to property which is a bonus. That said, we certainly have much more hay raking involved in finding the right school for our 7 year old son.

Nonetheless, our 16 year old daughter has reluctantly agreed to embark on this life changing mission on the proviso she can alternate visits from and to current friends on a monthly basis! I'd like to acquire some information on the prospects for her insofar as further education/social life/possible apprenticeships? I would welcome all views and advice. She is unsure as to her vocation in life which, in some respects - although understandable - isn't helpful. However, that's what we have to go on. C'est la vie, I guess.

Can any of you assist in advising on teen/pre adult immigration and the pros and cons she may face?

Thank you in advance.

Hi and welcome to the forum. Your only hope is to get her into an international school where could take her A-levels and then????? Unless she's totally bilingual college is out. Theres little or no work for anyone, especially the squillions of young Spanish and expat kids looking for work, no benefit system and it wont be easy for her to make friends cos where would she go to make them???? So I'm sorry but I cant see any pros at all. Spain is in an economic crisis and has the highest unemployment in Europe right now, with no sign of it getting any better in the foreseeable future

We came back to the UK for those reasons. My 16yo son rightly felt that his choice of A-levels at his international school in Spain were limited and he'd have better choices in the UK and more chance of getting some weekend work

A bad age I'm afraid!

Jo xxx

 

[ParadiseSeeker]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Your only hope is to get her into an international school where could take her A-levels and then????? Unless she's totally bilingual college is out. Theres little or no work for anyone, especially the squillions of young Spanish and expat kids looking for work, no benefit system and it wont be easy for her to make friends cos where would she go to make them???? So I'm sorry but I cant see any pros at all. Spain is in an economic crisis and has the highest unemployment in Europe right now, with no sign of it getting any better in the foreseeable future

We came back to the UK for those reasons. My 16yo son rightly felt that his choice of A-levels at his international school in Spain were limited and he'd have better choices in the UK and more chance of getting some weekend work

A bad age I'm afraid!

Jo xxx

Thank you, Jo. I'm pleased to be welcomed

We know the financial climate is poor at the moment and indeed for the foreseeable future. Fortunately, we are fairly 'well healed'. Therefore, there is not an urgent aspect as far as our daughters financial aspects are concerned. I accept your comments regarding benefits and suchlike. Fortunately, we will not be in a position to depend upon the limited or non-existent sources of a foreign country. Nevertheless, we do prefer that our child be accustomed to some sort of self-worth pending her personal vocational choice. Do you know of any voluntary agencies whereby she may be of assistance? What non-paying, life long learning experiences may she be exposed to whilst in limbo, if any?

Onto social aspects, are there no clubs/nightlife options she might explore, even with similar-minded/age group persons? I understand your position re shifting position for the sake of your son and I wholly respect this. However, can you perhaps place a devils advocate outlook on this? Our thinking is that if the scenario were reversed - ie, Spain to UK, our children (with our support and encouragement) would surely have no choice but to find a way to integrate and find a lifestyle to suit?

Thanks again

 

[bob_bob]

If your financially secure you could stall your trip until your daughter has 'A' levels before uprooting her at what really is a pivotal point in her life, certainly her education. Without fluent Spanish (which she won't learn in two years) her higher education will be in the UK. Playing devils advocate I'd say your really not being fare to the girl and are making a bad move.

 

[dunmovin]

Hi

We are moving from Scotland to the Javea/surrounding areas within the next few months. We're well assured in our research of areas and suchlike, having a good grasp of the area and the CB in general; and we know our plans in regard to property which is a bonus. That said, we certainly have much more hay raking involved in finding the right school for our 7 year old son.

Nonetheless, our 16 year old daughter has reluctantly agreed to embark on this life changing mission on the proviso she can alternate visits from and to current friends on a monthly basis! I'd like to acquire some information on the prospects for her insofar as further education/social life/possible apprenticeships? I would welcome all views and advice. She is unsure as to her vocation in life which, in some respects - although understandable - isn't helpful. However, that's what we have to go on. C'est la vie, I guess.

Can any of you assist in advising on teen/pre adult immigration and the pros and cons she may face?

Thank you in advance.

1st of all, both you and daughter can relax a bit. (I don't have kids, but if I did, letting them loose in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Paisley or even Ayr, would scare me to death)
In general, Spanish youths seem to have easy going manner and are not a source of worry (annoyance..... yes. with their 50cc motos, with modified exhausts, which can emit an an earpiercing noise of 130 db)

sugestion: voluntary work at an animal shelter or a vet's pratice or similar.....



If you don't mind me asking, which part of Scotland are you from?


Me? I was born in a litlle place south of Glasgow.... married a lovely woman of Irish descent, ******ed off to hong kong, spent 13 years having a good time....then ,one day, said enough is enough.

 

[Pesky Wesky]

1st of all, both you and daughter can relax a bit. (I don't have kids, but if I did, letting them loose in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Paisley or even Ayr, would scare me to death)
In general, Spanish youths seem to have easy going manner and are not a source of worry (annoyance..... yes. with their 50cc motos, with modified exhausts, which can emit an an earpiercing noise of 130 db) True enough

sugestion: voluntary work at an animal shelter or a vet's pratice or similar.....
Will she really be a help anywhere Spanish based if she doesn't speak Spanish, which we are presuming that she doesn't?


If you don't mind me asking, which part of Scotland are you from?


Me? I was born in a litlle place south of Glasgow.... married a lovely woman of Irish descent, ******ed off to hong kong, spent 13 years having a good time....then ,one day, said enough is enough.

She needs an international school as Jojo says to get her through A levels. Then if she wants to go to on to further education she'd have to go back to the UK most probably. So up to this point Spain is going to be an inconvenience for her, and she's already coming relunctantly according to your post...
There is a social life of course for teens, but without the language it's much more difficult. Even more so if you're not willing to throw yourself in.

A Spanish boyfriend might possibly help - or not!

 

[xabiaxica]

Thank you, Jo. I'm pleased to be welcomed

We know the financial climate is poor at the moment and indeed for the foreseeable future. Fortunately, we are fairly 'well healed'. Therefore, there is not an urgent aspect as far as our daughters financial aspects are concerned. I accept your comments regarding benefits and suchlike. Fortunately, we will not be in a position to depend upon the limited or non-existent sources of a foreign country. Nevertheless, we do prefer that our child be accustomed to some sort of self-worth pending her personal vocational choice. Do you know of any voluntary agencies whereby she may be of assistance? What non-paying, life long learning experiences may she be exposed to whilst in limbo, if any?

Onto social aspects, are there no clubs/nightlife options she might explore, even with similar-minded/age group persons? I understand your position re shifting position for the sake of your son and I wholly respect this. However, can you perhaps place a devils advocate outlook on this? Our thinking is that if the scenario were reversed - ie, Spain to UK, our children (with our support and encouragement) would surely have no choice but to find a way to integrate and find a lifestyle to suit?

Thanks again

I live in Jávea & I have a 16 year old daughter - we've been here since she was 7, so she's completely tri-lingual & you'd have thought her chances of a summer job (now that it's actually legal for her to work) would be pretty good in a holiday town

not so, I'm afraid I'm just relieved that she wants to stay at school & eventually uni, or we'd seriously be considering returning to the UK right now because she has more chance of getting work/apprenticeships there - she thankfully still speaks & writes the language fluently

socialising for Brit 16 year olds who haven't 'gone native' revolves around hanging on street corners, bars & nightclubs getting drunk/doped up on a nightly basis

the ones who have gone native might do that now & then (after all they are teenagers) but are more likely to be out & about at night with their families


the only voluntary work I can think of off the top of my head is at the animal shelters & the various church homeless shelters & charity shops - some are run by English speakers but for others she'd need native level Spanish

there's the Red Cross & so on, but again she'd need to be a native Spanish speaker......well it is Spain


you'll be fine, your younger child will be fine............ your 16 year old daughter - unless she goes to one of the international schools for A levels, will likely be 'in limbo' for the rest of her life - even then IMO you're only delaying it

without exception, everyone I know here with teens who went through International rather than state school returned to the UK when they finished GCSEs/A levels.......either the entire family, or just the young adult - either for college or to live with relatives & hope to get some sort of work - at least they speak the language in the UK - very few come out of International school with fluent Spanish (although one local one is now bilingual, so there's hope for younger kids entering now)

50% of 16-24 year olds here have never worked nor are they in further education........ there really isn't much of a future here for your daughter


I happen to know a young 20-something who has moved out here with her parents to try it out. She has a uni degree but doesn't speak Spanish. She's looking for work, but all she can find atm is villa cleaning - & that's probably what she'll do all summer - then in September there won't even be that


I'm sorry......... reading that back it sounds like I hate the place

I don't, I love it, it's our home & I'll fight tooth & nail to live here (& it sometimes feels like I am) - but my daughter is on a level playing field with Spanish kids & perhaps even has an advantage becuase of the extra languages she speaks ........ but I worry for her future here in Spain, and that of her nearly 13 year old sister & if it comes to it - we'll go back if that's what is best for them

 

[jojo]

I thnk that meeting other kids will be a problem unless she goes to international school, so at least doing that would be a a "double wammy" meet friends and get an education. so maybe worth trying??? My comment about benefits wasnt meant as an insult to your finances, having had 5 children myself, I know that by 16 they want their own money, lots of it. And IMO its essential that they "earn" or get it for themselves rather than hold their hand out to parents (altho they try and never stop doing that lol!!). You may well feel that you feel guilty for making her move and try to compensate by giving into too much???

My experience and thoughts on this: If you do this and she's reluctant, hmmm, it could be scary, she could and probably will blame you for whatever goes wrong in her life, Flying her back and forth??? Are you near an airport both ends?? Learning to drive in Spain?? Can be done but wont be easy. Missing her friends and feeling "left out" simply because she's not there on a day to day basis, skype, facetime, facebook etc dont necessarily allow that closeness of living closeby and that can mean she feels left out. My children, when we moved to Spain tried to keep in touch with their UK friends, but gradually they fell out of the loop

That said, if you can get her into school, she may make friends and "get in" with the kids already there and have a ball??? but 16 is a funny age..........!!!!

We moved to Spain when my two youngest were 10 and 12, my 10 yo didnt settle brilliantly, and my 12 yo loved it, but by 16 he felt the UK offered him better opportunities. Hence we moved back. Today, my daughter who has just turned 15 prefers the UK and is glad to be "home", my son who is 17........ misses Spain, but he's probably in the right place..........

Jo xxx

 

[dunmovin]

She needs an international school as Jojo says to get her through A levels. Then if she wants to go to on to further education she'd have to go back to the UK most probably. So up to this point Spain is going to be an inconvenience for her, and she's already coming relunctantly according to your post...
There is a social life of course for teens, but without the language it's much more difficult. Even more so if you're not willing to throw yourself in.

A Spanish boyfriend might possibly help - or not!

this one ... you are going to have to explain:confused2:

 

[xabiaxica]

this one ... you are going to have to explain:confused2:

she'll learn Spanish much more quickly............... or not

 

[lynn]

When we moved over two and a half years ago, my eldest son was 16 years old. We waited until he had sat his GCSEs before we made the move. He was not happy at being uprooted from his friends, his social life (just getting independent) and his beloved school in the UK. He, along with his younger siblings then started at an International school here. It was tough for the first year or so - he is a very sociable and confident young man, so he did make friends with the kids he met through school here, but even so, it took time for him to settle. He hung on to the fact that when his two years in the sixth form were over, he would be going back to the Uni in the UK. The stress on achieving that goal was unbelievable for him and for us as a family. Basically, he could see the stark reality that if he didn't achieve the grades he needed at A level, he would be faced with returning to the UK on his own to try to secure work. There are no viable long term opportunities for kids like him in Spain I'm afraid.
He is now back in the UK at Uni (a proud mum!), and the gamble paid off for us.... From a positive perspective, I'm very sure that the fact that we pulled the comfort blanket out from under him actually did his development a lot of good - he is now much more hard working than he was, and puts much more into everything he does...

If we had our time again, would we do the same?? Well, given that he was always very bright and capable of getting good A levels, I think we would. But if he had been a child not really keen/capable of going on to further education in the UK then no, I'm afraid. He has a good friend here who left the international school at 16 and has spent three years scratching around doing casual work. He's desperate to 'start his life' as he puts it, and is saving enough money to fund going back to the UK on his own and try to get a proper job with prospects.

Personally, from what you have said, I would probably advise leaving the move until your daughter is 18 having given her time to set herself up with employment/training opportunities....

 

[Pesky Wesky]

this one ... you are going to have to explain:confused2:

Love is a great motivator for learning the language and also the culture of a place.
I speak from experience...
However, a serious "love" at 16 isn't always a positive.

 

[ParadiseSeeker]

If your financially secure you could stall your trip until your daughter has 'A' levels before uprooting her at what really is a pivotal point in her life, certainly her education. Without fluent Spanish (which she won't learn in two years) her higher education will be in the UK. Playing devils advocate I'd say your really not being fare to the girl and are making a bad move.

Thank you Bob. I totally agree with your point. However, we also have a 7 year old to consider. Ideally, we'd like to have him settled and integrated asap. Our sway is between part-time visits (in the interests of our daughter) and full time move (in the interests of our youngest son - we have a 20 year old son too - he'd move with us in a minute!) It's a dilemma for sure.

Thanks again for your comments.

 

[ParadiseSeeker]

1st of all, both you and daughter can relax a bit. (I don't have kids, but if I did, letting them loose in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Paisley or even Ayr, would scare me to death)
In general, Spanish youths seem to have easy going manner and are not a source of worry (annoyance..... yes. with their 50cc motos, with modified exhausts, which can emit an an earpiercing noise of 130 db)

sugestion: voluntary work at an animal shelter or a vet's pratice or similar.....



If you don't mind me asking, which part of Scotland are you from?


Me? I was born in a litlle place south of Glasgow.... married a lovely woman of Irish descent, ******ed off to hong kong, spent 13 years having a good time....then ,one day, said enough is enough.

Thank you for this contrasting input. I guess it's a matter of placing importance on what's important, so to speak. Arguably, life doesn't have to be all about hard work. It could be about living?

I'm sure my daughter would love to spend her life buzzing around on these 'hairdryers', annoying the life out of anyone within ear-shot. Ha ha.

The idea of volunteering at an animal shelter or similar would appeal to my daughter for sure. Thanks for suggesting that.

We're from the East coast of Bonnie Scotland.

My brother lives in Hong Kong. I reckon it's about time he said 'enough is enough' - but that's another story.

Sounds like you have found contentment and happiness.

Thanks again.

 

[ParadiseSeeker]

Love is a great motivator for learning the language and also the culture of a place.
I speak from experience...
However, a serious "love" at 16 isn't always a positive.

Ah, that takes us to a whole new level Pesky Wesky - but thank you

 

[xabiaxica]

Thank you Bob. I totally agree with your point. However, we also have a 7 year old to consider. Ideally, we'd like to have him settled and integrated asap. Our sway is between part-time visits (in the interests of our daughter) and full time move (in the interests of our youngest son - we have a 20 year old son too - he'd move with us in a minute!) It's a dilemma for sure.

Thanks again for your comments.

your 7 year old would still be fine to move here & integrate in two years at 9 years of age



your 16 year old will struggle so much more - she might integrate (whatever that is) - but she'll have no future

 

[Pesky Wesky]

your 7 year old would still be fine to move here & integrate in two years at 9 years of age

That's a good point - worth thinking about.

 

[Seb*]

Let's put it in a simple way. How much money do you have / how wealthy are you really? If you are loaded and are able to support your children way into adulthood and beyond and guarantee them the lifestyle they might want - go for it!

If not, think twice if you want to risk robbing your daughter of a safe future! You are saying you want to move now for your young son and don't wait - is that really the case or is it you who are craving the "paradise that is Spain"? (I am not judging here btw). Waiting another two years to give your daughter a chance of a good education and making her own way in the UK, is a small price to pay IMO and won't hurt your young son at all, at 9 he will still be able to find his way around in Spain.

Let's face it Spain for young adults is one of the worst countries to live in right now. 52% unemployment, this effectively means your daughter has NO (zero!) chance to find a job, vocational education or aprenticeship. And the situation won't recover in the next years, it can easily take a decade or more. And no - Spain is not a paradise - actually it can and often is the absolute opposite.

I could go on and on and on. I could tell you about the non-existing benefit system, no free health care, about the fact, that if your daughter would return in some years without education, she would have no right to recieve benefits back in the UK etc. I could tell you about the rough and hard life that anyone without tons of money (and I am talking big money here!) has to face in Spain. But those stories are on the forum already, over and over again.

So to sum it up. If you are wealthy and are willing to support your children a long way into the future, go for it and see where your daughter stands in 2 years - you will make her life difficult, but not impossible If you expect her to stand on her own feet at 18 and find her own way in life I think it would be absolutely irresponsible to bring her to Spain now.

My family has owned property on the Costa Blanca for over 35 years now, I have been living here full time for the last three years and I think I have seen all aspects of life in Spain now. Believe me - the illusion of paradise in the sun wears off really quick and then you see the reality, like the parents who all of a sudden get told, that their children's school won't re-open next term - that's when reality hits, Spain is in crisis and it is going down fast at the moment.

I might get beaten up for this, but: beside big cities Spain is a good decade behind northern Europe, this surfaces in a lot of areas like the local government structures, bureaucracy, tax system - hell even simple tasks like registering a car! Choices in supermarkets, telecommunication infrastructure and lots more. This life suits a lot of people, but I feel that a lot of "newcomers", who only know Spain from holidays are in for a shock longterm. We will be leaving Spain for the UK at the end of may - we will be back for at least holidays (after all Spain as a country is wonderful) - but longterm? Probably not for at least another 10 years. Personally I have tired of everyday life in Spain and the connected challenges and frustration we have faced.

All these negative points are not a big deal for pensioners, professionals with top paid jobs or jobs that take place outside of Spain, the sun and lifestyle can make up for it to an extend. But for a young adult just starting out in life without any good education this climate can be hell!

 

[mrypg9]

is it you who are craving the "paradise that is Spain"?

'Paradise Lost' might be a suitable text to study....

I can see no future for a young immigrant in Spain for many years to come.
The rate of youth unemployment, even in the 'well-heeled' areas, is simply frightening.

 

[jojo]

Its not just the work/money side of things tho. 16yo girls tend to be shy creatures (unless they're with their friends), so without school, a job or a way of socialising I'd worry more about the fact that she could become a bit withdrawn, bored, lonely and resentful - all her friends in the UK maybe doing "XY&Z" and she cant cos she's in Spain. Ok so she'll have frequent trips over there, but for how long and how long will it be before she loses that closeness with her UK friends. Of course its also a good way to keep her in check, so that she doesnt "go off the rails" as many girls do in their teens, but it wont be easy if she's genuinely unhappy

Jo xxx