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Hi All,

I got my PR last year in September 2016 and moved to Sydney in Feb 2017 , however due to some family reasons , i have to come back to india in March end and still here, i am assuming it will take me another month or so before i go back.

I am curious and in a way scared if there is a clause which i am unaware of stating that i need to be visiting back in minimum this much period else the PR will cease or other issues.

Any guidance and link to read through would be really helpful.

Thanks for your help in advance.

Regards
Kapil
 

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Hi All,

I got my PR last year in September 2016 and moved to Sydney in Feb 2017 , however due to some family reasons , i have to come back to india in March end and still here, i am assuming it will take me another month or so before i go back after your initial 5 years are over

I am curious and in a way scared if there is a clause which i am unaware of stating that i need to be visiting back in minimum this much period else the PR will cease or other issues.

Any guidance and link to read through would be really helpful.

Thanks for your help in advance.

Regards
Kapil
You must have spent at least 2 years in Australia within the last 5 years to get a RRV in case you need to leave Australia and come back

As long as you spend at least 2 years in Australia in any 5 year period your PR is safe and you can travel out of the country and return as needed

In worst case scenario, you can enter the country even one day before expiry of the PR and live permanently even if you have not spent 2 years.
It's just that you cannot leave the country and return as the chances of getting a RRV will be low


But rules may change at any point of time.

So if you intend to settle in Australia permanently, then you should plan for citizenship which requires that you spend 4 out of 5 years In Australia to be eligible for the same in addition to other requirements

Cheers
 

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Hi All,

I got my PR last year in September 2016 and moved to Sydney in Feb 2017 , however due to some family reasons , i have to come back to india in March end and still here, i am assuming it will take me another month or so before i go back.

I am curious and in a way scared if there is a clause which i am unaware of stating that i need to be visiting back in minimum this much period else the PR will cease or other issues.

Any guidance and link to read through would be really helpful.

Thanks for your help in advance.

Regards
Kapil
You need to keep an eye on your total absence for citizenship purposes.

Which are:

The last 4 years on any temporary or permanent visa, with a maximum of 12 months overseas in this period; and
The last 12 months on a permanent visa, with a maximum of 3 months overseas.

as per: https://www.acacia-au.com/citizenship-requirement20091028.php
 

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You need to keep an eye on your total absence for citizenship purposes.

Which are:

The last 4 years on any temporary or permanent visa, with a maximum of 12 months overseas in this period; and
The last 12 months on a permanent visa, with a maximum of 3 months overseas.

as per: https://www.acacia-au.com/citizenship-requirement20091028.php
For kapiilkrb, given the prospective changes to Citizenship requirements are highly likely to be passed into law later this year, the temporary visa component will cease to exist.

He will need to have had PR for 4 years before applying for Citizenship, and have had no more than 1 year total absence from Australia in those 4 years, with no more 90 days in the final year before applying for Citizenship.
 

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You must have spent at least 2 years in Australia within the last 5 years to get a RRV in case you need to leave Australia and come back

As long as you spend at least 2 years in Australia in any 5 year period your PR is safe and you can travel out of the country and return as needed

In worst case scenario, you can enter the country even one day before expiry of the PR and live permanently even if you have not spent 2 years.
It's just that you cannot leave the country and return as the chances of getting a RRV will be low


But rules may change at any point of time.

So if you intend to settle in Australia permanently, then you should plan for citizenship which requires that you spend 4 out of 5 years In Australia to be eligible for the same in addition to other requirements

Cheers
After the 5 year initial travel rights that come with PR expire, he would be able to get a 3 month RRV even if he spent less than 2 years in Australia. :)

In terms of Citizenship, (and assuming the proposed law passes, and I can't imagine it won't in terms of this component) it's 4 years of PR, of which up to 1 year may be spent out of Australia (given that of that one year, not more than 90 days absence occurs in the year before applying. :)
 

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After the 5 year initial travel rights that come with PR expire, he would be able to get a 3 month RRV even if he spent less than 2 years in Australia. :)

In terms of Citizenship, (and assuming the proposed law passes, and I can't imagine it won't in terms of this component) it's 4 years of PR, of which up to 1 year may be spent out of Australia (given that of that one year, not more than 90 days absence occurs in the year before applying. :)
I am sorry.
I was not aware of that.
I thought that the 3 months RRV is given on discretion of the CO based on why you need to travel and not as a matter of right in case of less then 2 years stay

Cheers
 

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I am sorry.
I was not aware of that.
I thought that the 3 months RRV is given on discretion of the CO based on why you need to travel and not as a matter of right in case of less then 2 years stay

Cheers
The discretion may be used to give a 1 year or 3 month RRV, even though that would be a different visa class, when a 5 year RRV is applied for but not able to be granted.

So a grant of at least a 3 month RRV is pretty much automatic (unless they have already had one after 5 years of PR)- my view is that in any case, even after 1 day in Australia, another 3 months wouldn't hurt the overall outcome that Australia wants from the system - which is, that the applicant either makes Australia their home and lives there, or doesn't.

CO's do have some discretion, but the matter will often be discussed with Team Leaders and Managers if there is likely to be a refusal. They have wider discretion and can advise and suggest how the Case Officer might like to proceed.

While an important issue for the applicant, issuing a short term RRV is not a major issue for DIBP. In any case, say the applicant simply said they need to visit family - that is generally enough of a compassionate reason to meet that requirement, the only other requirement for a 3 month 157 RRV is at least 1 day in Australia as a PR:)
 

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The discretion may be used to give a 1 year or 3 month RRV, even though that would be a different visa class, when a 5 year RRV is applied for but not able to be granted.

So a grant of at least a 3 month RRV is pretty much automatic (unless they have already had one after 5 years of PR)- my view is that in any case, even after 1 day in Australia, another 3 months wouldn't hurt the overall outcome that Australia wants from the system - which is, that the applicant either makes Australia their home and lives there, or doesn't.

CO's do have some discretion, but the matter will often be discussed with Team Leaders and Managers if there is likely to be a refusal. They have wider discretion and can advise and suggest how the Case Officer might like to proceed.

While an important issue for the applicant, issuing a short term RRV is not a major issue for DIBP. In any case, say the applicant simply said they need to visit family - that is generally enough of a compassionate reason to meet that requirement, the only other requirement for a 3 month 157 RRV is at least 1 day in Australia as a PR:)
I remember reading a detailed article about PR by some expert or politician who said that the idea of the country giving you a PR is that the country needs your skills now

If you are not in a position to provide the skills , then why should you get to enjoy the benefits of the PR few years down the line when maybe your skills would not be so relevant to the countries need

It was a very detailed and thought compelling article and if I find it, will post the link
You should read it, when you have the time

It is really thought provoking that those who take PR and don't relocate within a reasonable time are actually misusing the system and should not be shown any leniency unless they can provide some very good arguments why they did not relocate after the grant

I am sure that this is not far off if too many holders do not relocate

Cheers
 

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You must have spent at least 2 years in Australia within the last 5 years to get a RRV in case you need to leave Australia and come back

As long as you spend at least 2 years in Australia in any 5 year period your PR is safe and you can travel out of the country and return as needed

In worst case scenario, you can enter the country even one day before expiry of the PR and live permanently even if you have not spent 2 years.
It's just that you cannot leave the country and return as the chances of getting a RRV will be low


But rules may change at any point of time.

So if you intend to settle in Australia permanently, then you should plan for citizenship which requires that you spend 4 out of 5 years In Australia to be eligible for the same in addition to other requirements

Cheers
Hi newbienz,

As per current citizenship requirements :

1. The last 4 years on any temporary or permanent visa, with a maximum of 12 months overseas in this period; and
2. The last 12 months on a permanent visa, with a maximum of 3 months overseas.

I have a ques,if you can help me with it. suppose i spent last 3 of my 5 yr PR in aus with 12 months and 1 after 5 yrs without applying for RRV. Will i be eligible? I want to know if the last 4 yrs has to be 4yrs of the initial 5yrs.
 

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Hi newbienz,

As per current citizenship requirements :

1. The last 4 years on any temporary or permanent visa, with a maximum of 12 months overseas in this period; and
2. The last 12 months on a permanent visa, with a maximum of 3 months overseas.

I have a ques,if you can help me with it. suppose i spent last 3 of my 5 yr PR in aus with 12 months and 1 after 5 yrs without applying for RRV. Will i be eligible? I want to know if the last 4 yrs has to be 4yrs of the initial 5yrs.
It's a continuous cycle. It doesn't matter which period.
Any 5 year continuous Block is what matters

Spend time in Australia and the moment you find that you have spent 4 years in the last 5 years and Not more then 90 days outside Australia in the last 1 year. Bam apply for citizenship

Enter your stay in Australia and travel outside dates in. An excel sheet and keep track of your eligibility
Also look out for the other rules which are likely to become law soon

http://www.border.gov.au/Citizenship/Documents/australian-citizenship-report.PDF


Cheers
 

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I remember reading a detailed article about PR by some expert or politician who said that the idea of the country giving you a PR is that the country needs your skills now

If you are not in a position to provide the skills , then why should you get to enjoy the benefits of the PR few years down the line when maybe your skills would not be so relevant to the countries need

It was a very detailed and thought compelling article and if I find it, will post the link
You should read it, when you have the time

It is really thought provoking that those who take PR and don't relocate within a reasonable time are actually misusing the system and should not be shown any leniency unless they can provide some very good arguments why they did not relocate after the grant

I am sure that this is not far off if too many holders do not relocate

Cheers
Immigration Officers have some discretion in some areas of some visas - and that's given to them for a few reasons. I'm well aware of the arguments for not showing leniency - and past a certain, quite limited point, generally leniency is not an option anyway.

Granting an RRV of longer than 3 months with less than 2 years residence is very uncommon - if it's clear that if the applicant has not been in Australia for more than 2 of the past five years, the applicant is generally taken to not yet easily be able to show their long-term commitment to Australia.

Case Officers must be quite careful about what they will do, and although they do have some leeway, they must act within the visa rules, and generally, within the spirit of the legislation. So additional longer-term RRV's are very unlikely in that situation. However, for the sake of three months, if there is a claim of a compassionate need for a short additional (3 month) time outside Australia, that 3 month RRV is likely to be granted.

The reality is that an extra 3 months isn't going to hurt Australia, and only defers the permanent residence by that much at most. Issuing an RRV for 3 months in this situation is simple, and avoids what can be a difficult assessment of just what is considered to be compassionate.

It may well be thought-provoking to those looking at the situation from outside, but DIBP staff who grant or refuse these visas are trained, and less-experienced staff will normally discuss any issues with their team leaders, etc if they are not sure - or their team leaders will come and discuss it with them.
 

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It's a continuous cycle. It doesn't matter which period.
Any 5 year continuous Block is what matters

Spend time in Australia and the moment you find that you have spent 4 years in the last 5 years and Not more then 90 days outside Australia in the last 1 year. Bam apply for citizenship

Enter your stay in Australia and travel outside dates in. An excel sheet and keep track of your eligibility
Also look out for the other rules which are likely to become law soon

http://www.border.gov.au/Citizenship/Documents/australian-citizenship-report.PDF


Cheers
Don't get confused - the 5 years applies to RRV's only. :)

Under the proposed new legislation, Citizenship requires 4 years as a PR, of which 1 year can be out of Australia (so you'd need at least 3 years actual residence in Australia, as long as you have PR status for the whole 4 years, as per the new rules, which should be passed later this year).
 

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Don't get confused - the 5 years applies to RRV's only. :)

Under the proposed new legislation, Citizenship requires 4 years as a PR, of which 1 year can be out of Australia (so you'd need at least 3 years actual residence in Australia, as long as you have PR status for the whole 4 years, as per the new rules, which should be passed later this year).
Thanks I stand corrected

I was getting confused as the jargon used in the legislation is difficult to comprehend

Cheers
 

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Don't get confused - the 5 years applies to RRV's only. :)

Under the proposed new legislation, Citizenship requires 4 years as a PR, of which 1 year can be out of Australia (so you'd need at least 3 years actual residence in Australia, as long as you have PR status for the whole 4 years, as per the new rules, which should be passed later this year).
Now im confused :(

1. This 3 yrs has to be the any continuous 3 yrs right? Or it has be among the initial 5?

2. Does having an RRV after initial 5 yrs will change my PR status and subsequently harm my citizenship eligibility? Suppose i get granted 3 Months RRV after 5yrs, and till then my actual stay residence count was 2.5 yrs. Will this count start again after i finish my RRV stay?

Please help.
 

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Now im confused :(

1. This 3 yrs has to be the any continuous 3 yrs right? Or it has be among the initial 5?

2. Does having an RRV after initial 5 yrs will change my PR status and subsequently harm my citizenship eligibility? Suppose i get granted 3 Months RRV after 5yrs, and till then my actual stay residence count was 2.5 yrs. Will this count start again after i finish my RRV stay?

Please help.
Keep the two things separate, as much as you can. :)

For Citizenship, you will need to be in Australia for 3 years non-stop at least, but you also must have had PR for at least 4 years (4 years non-stop, including that 3 year actual residence period) in total.

Having an RRV does not in itself affect your eligibility for Citizenship, but clearly the time you spend in Australia does - you must have at least 3 years as an Australian resident as well as 1 year as a PR (when you could be outside Australia), in the 4 year period before you apply for Citizenship. (And that total 1 year absence includes no more than 90 days absence in the final year before you lodge an application for Citizenship).

To get a 5 year RRV, you will need to have spent at least 2 years of the past 5 years (made up of any periods, not necessarily non-stop) in Australia.

If you stayed for 2.5 years in a 5 year period, you should get a 5 year RRV, as you would have met the 2 year residence requirement for a 5 year 155 RRV: https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/155-
 

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Keep the two things separate, as much as you can. :)

For Citizenship, you will need to be in Australia for 3 years non-stop at least, but you also must have had PR for at least 4 years (4 years non-stop, including that 3 year actual residence period) in total.

Having an RRV does not in itself affect your eligibility for Citizenship, but clearly the time you spend in Australia does - you must have at least 3 years as an Australian resident as well as 1 year as a PR (when you could be outside Australia), in the 4 year period before you apply for Citizenship. (And that total 1 year absence includes no more than 90 days absence in the final year before you lodge an application for Citizenship).

To get a 5 year RRV, you will need to have spent at least 2 years of the past 5 years (made up of any periods, not necessarily non-stop) in Australia.

If you stayed for 2.5 years in a 5 year period, you should get a 5 year RRV, as you would have met the 2 year residence requirement for a 5 year 155 RRV: https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/155-

I am more worried about citizenship than RRV. Like you said i must have 4 yrs nonstop where 3 yrs should be actual stay in aus, i just want to clarify if this 4 yrs can be after I have an RRV?

Can you please clear the below two scenario :

1. Suppose I stayed total 2 yrs of my first 5. Then i dint apply for RRV and stayed more 2 yrs. Am I eligible for citizenship?

2. After 2 years of staying in initial 5, i applied for RRV. I stayed out for 3 months and came back and stayed for more 1.3 years.Will i be eligible ?
 

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I am more worried about citizenship than RRV. Like you said i must have 4 yrs nonstop where 3 yrs should be actual stay in aus, i just want to clarify if this 4 yrs can be after I have an RRV?

Can you please clear the below two scenario :

1. Suppose I stayed total 2 yrs of my first 5. Then i dint apply for RRV and stayed more 2 yrs. Am I eligible for citizenship?

2. After 2 years of staying in initial 5, i applied for RRV. I stayed out for 3 months and came back and stayed for more 1.3 years.Will i be eligible ?
From what I have understood, for citizenship purposes you have to take a block of continuous 4 years.
You cannot take 2 years from a different period and 2 years from a different period.

Choose a starting date from which you have spent the maximum time in Australia and then calculate how many days you would have to stay further in Australia to meet the 3 year actual residence criteria

Cheers
 

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From what I have understood, for citizenship purposes you have to take a block of continuous 4 years.
You cannot take 2 years from a different period and 2 years from a different period.

Choose a starting date from which you have spent the maximum time in Australia and then calculate how many days you would have to stay further in Australia to meet the 3 year actual residence criteria

Cheers
That i understand. I just need to understand that, what are the separate blocks you are talking about? Does RRV holding time (Onshore) accepted as the eligible time for citizenship?
 

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That i understand. I just need to understand that, what are the separate blocks you are talking about? Does RRV holding time (Onshore) accepted as the eligible time for citizenship?
The RRV is not directly relevant for Citizenship.

What is relevant for Citizenship is that you must complete 4 years with PR before you can apply for it.

Also, you must have had a total time (whether all at once or over multiple stays) of 3 of those 4 years in Australia, including not more than 90 days outside Australia in the last 30 days.

There is no required set period or periods in or out of Australia in the overall 4 year period as long as periods outside Australia don't add up to more than a year (including any time away in the final year of course).
 

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That i understand. I just need to understand that, what are the separate blocks you are talking about? Does RRV holding time (Onshore) accepted as the eligible time for citizenship?
Anytime you spend in Australia counts for both independently

Just because you have used that period for RRV doesn't mean that you cannot use the same period towards citizenship

The block I am talking about is that say you spend 2 years in Australia and then spend more then a year out of Australia and return.

As you have already spent more then 1 year out aof Australia, the previous block of 2 years stay can't be counted towards citizenship meeting requirements as even if you stay continuously in Asutralia from that day for a year you will have stayed out of Australia for more then a year in the last 4 years
That initial stay of 2 years advantage is lost forever as far as citizenship is concerned

Cheers
 
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