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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So, here Dawg is in a neighbrhood store in the Six Corners área of West Ajijic buying something not necessarly associated with local purchasing habits among those native to this land and while I was engaging in light repartee with the clerk handling my purchases which cionsisted of, among other things, Caca Cola Zero, the local woman behind me in line noted, in Spanish, that I (unknown to her) was exhibiting "******" preferences. Now, Dawg does not in anyway appear to be a Mexican nor a person even remotely conversant in Spanish but I am a Mexican citizen having lived here in both Jalisco and Chiapas for over 15 years and I recognized that I was being being bellittled in Spanish for exhibiting preferences with which I was raised in the United States and I will tell you this. As much as I liked Coca Cola as a native of Alabama, I never treasured Coca Cola more than I did in the intense heat of India and parts of East Africa as I travelled about those places in my 20s. I glanced at this woman and asked her why she was referring to me as a "******" with a taste for what seemed to her to be exotic an mported soft drink product. I further informed her that I understood what she had said and did not appreciate being referred by a designated a racial epithet because of my appearance and choice of products to purchase. I further informed her I was a resident and citizen of Mexico despite my appearance. I quickly mitigated the situation by informing her that I was not seriously offended by her callous resference to me as a "******" but maybe I should have continued my imdignation so she could go home realizing that her casual reference to someone who appeared unlike herslef was inappropriate racist behavior.

I am reminded of my youth in the racially segregated U.S. South in the 1940s and 1950s and, upon reflection, I realized my attempt to be polite to her after confronting her was a similar situation to what might have occurred in 1952 Alabama when an African American man might say something to the effect that, "Aw shucks, máam we colored folks can sometimes get out of line. Nothing personal."

People who do not consider "******" to be a demeaning racial epithet which can, during hard times. lead to racial injustice, and even racial assaults are welcome to their opinions but don´t be calling me no "******" which in Chiapas is an insult never delivered casually just like "Indio". In eight years of living in Chiapas, I have never even once heard anyone refer to "Gringos" or "Indios". Ethnic slurs never considered appropriate in Southern Mexico. Wake up and show a little pride in your background whic was never you choice in the first place but it is what you are - whether you like it or not.

It´s npo wonder that my wife and I prefer Chiapas, socially speaking, over Jalisco.
 

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We came here (Cuernavaca) to live and relax. I am who I am. I haven't worn jeans (long legged pants) in almost two years. I wear boat-like shorts and polo shirts everywhere. I always will. In fact I have a stash in waiting. I sometimes get the most curious looks - but I don't care. My wife, on the other hand, resents that she can't where shorts in public :-(
 

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So, here Dawg is in a neighbrhood store in the Six Corners área of West Ajijic buying something not necessarly associated with local purchasing habits among those native to this land and while I was engaging in light repartee with the clerk handling my purchases which cionsisted of, among other things, Caca Cola Zero, the local woman behind me in line noted, in Spanish, that I (unknown to her) was exhibiting "******" preferences. Now, Dawg does not in anyway appear to be a Mexican nor a person even remotely conversant in Spanish but I am a Mexican citizen having lived here in both Jalisco and Chiapas for over 15 years and I recognized that I was being being bellittled in Spanish for exhibiting preferences with which I was raised in the United States and I will tell you this. As much as I liked Coca Cola as a native of Alabama, I never treasured Coca Cola more than I did in the intense heat of India and parts of East Africa as I travelled about those places in my 20s. I glanced at this woman and asked her why she was referring to me as a "******" with a taste for what seemed to her to be exotic an mported soft drink product. I further informed her that I understood what she had said and did not appreciate being referred by a designated a racial epithet because of my appearance and choice of products to purchase. I further informed her I was a resident and citizen of Mexico despite my appearance. I quickly mitigated the situation by informing her that I was not seriously offended by her callous resference to me as a "******" but maybe I should have continued my imdignation so she could go home realizing that her casual reference to someone who appeared unlike herslef was inappropriate racist behavior.

I am reminded of my youth in the racially segregated U.S. South in the 1940s and 1950s and, upon reflection, I realized my attempt to be polite to her after confronting her was a similar situation to what might have occurred in 1952 Alabama when an African American man might say something to the effect that, "Aw shucks, máam we colored folks can sometimes get out of line. Nothing personal."

People who do not consider "******" to be a demeaning racial epithet which can, during hard times. lead to racial injustice, and even racial assaults are welcome to their opinions but don´t be calling me no "******" which in Chiapas is an insult never delivered casually just like "Indio". In eight years of living in Chiapas, I have never even once heard anyone refer to "Gringos" or "Indios". Ethnic slurs never considered appropriate in Southern Mexico. Wake up and show a little pride in your background whic was never you choice in the first place but it is what you are - whether you like it or not.

It´s npo wonder that my wife and I prefer Chiapas, socially speaking, over Jalisco.
I have the same reaction to the word "******" that you do. I have only been called that by a Mexican a couple of times, never by friends of mine. However, I have heard people from the US refer to themselves and others by that term. I don't like it.
 

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We have a hand-full of close Mexican friends. They all know I am struggling with Spanish - and they can see how I dress. I also count down the time until I can get Mexican citizenship every time we get together. At a recent get-together one friend said - you will never be a Mexican - and perhaps she was on the mark - I will always be an American raised person living in Mexico.

edit : Just like every German living in the US will always be a German.
 

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It doesn't have the same connotation as the "N" word so what's the big deal? Aren't Mexicans known for being very descriptive of others? Political correctness in the States has become so extreme that we're being Balkanized into myriad offended groups. I doubt nicely or even angrily chewing someone out will do anything but reinforce their views of Norteamericanos. Oops, is that ok to say?��
 

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Here in San Miguel de Allende everybody says gringos. Mexicans call us gringos to our face and we all call ourselves gringos. I have travelled to different Mexican cities but have only lived in this country for 18 months so my experience is limited. Hearing the term ****** as part of an entire insult package regarding my purchases would definitely raise my hackles too. The interaction I see here in SMA is spontaneous and friendly but always respectful. It's a good vibe around these parts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
I have the same reaction to the word "******" that you do. I have only been called that by a Mexican a couple of times, never by friends of mine. However, I have heard people from the US refer to themselves and others by that term. I don't like it.

I have been referred to my face as a "******" once here at Lake Chapala and that was some 12 years ago. The Mexican native and I had had a traffic altercation at random on the streets of Ajijic. Nobody´s fault, actually, just one of those occasions when things don´t go right when one is driving down the road. This guy gets out of his car and walks up to me saying "You ****** gringos come down to our town and think you own the place. We don´t like your kind and don´t ever cross me again if you know what´s good for you."

It has been my privilege to live for some time in France, various parts of Africa and India among other places and,until I go to my grave, I will always be an Alabamian of European heritage and there is no shame in that. I´ve told this tale before but I´ll tell it aqain anyway.

My wife is from Paris and, in the 1970s I convinced her to move with me from Mobile to San Francisco where I had accepted a job as a commercial loan officer for Barclays Bank of California running their East Bay commercial loan center in Downtown Oakland, the bank´s number one commercial loan center in those days and the most prized commercial loan assignment the bank had to offer since, as unbeknownst to many, Metropolitan Oakland was the best place to be an industrial lender in the Bay Area and I had a lot of fun making a living at doing that

During the annual Christmas party the bank held on San Francisco´s Nob Hil every December, my wife became separated from me and was schmoozing about at that cocktail party when some snotty bank officer, while making light conversation, asked her how she had come to San Francisco from Paris. She replied, "Well, I actually came from Paris to Mobile and then moved here last year." The snot responded, "Mobile???? How could you have moved there. That city is filled with ********." She replied, "Tell me, I married one."

This boy is a Mexican citizen with 15 years under my belt here in both Jalisco and Chiapas. . I am as Mexican as a native of Poland who moves to Alabama and becomes a U.S. citizen is an Alabamian. You can call me a *******, a fair assessment and well-deserved description but don´t be calling me ******. Lots of "colored folks" were hanged from the nearest oak trees in my native Alabama for often imagined offenses just because of the color of their skin. . I know where this crap can lead us wherever we live on the planet.

Be a decent person and avoid racial epithets even in jest. It ain´t funny.
 

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Here in San Miguel de Allende everybody says gringos. Mexicans call us gringos to our face and we all call ourselves gringos. I have travelled to different Mexican cities but have only lived in this country for 18 months so my experience is limited. Hearing the term ****** as part of an entire insult package regarding my purchases would definitely raise my hackles too. The interaction I see here in SMA is spontaneous and friendly but always respectful. It's a good vibe around these parts.
Your comment makes clear that customs differ. Here in Guadalajara, the term is almost never used by Mexicans. I don't see many people from the US. The only two I do see are co-teachers in an English conversation class that I help out with. One is a Texan which is a whole different kettle of fish. The other was born in Mexico but raised in the US. I have never heard either of them use the word. Actually, there is a third teacher that I see occasionally who does like to refer to people from North of the Border as "******".

I have been called a ****** twice. Once by a passer-by on the street. He was kind of obnoxious and trying to show off that he spoke English, but probably didn't mean anything especially bad by the term. The other time I was with a group of people that I hike with. We were having dinner at a long table. One of the men at the far end, who did not know my name, referred to me as "the ******" in talking to the people near him. I don't think he meant ill. He just didn't know what else to call me and I was the only non-Mexican in the group.
 

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Not to be argumentative, TG, but in all my years in Guadalajara I have heard the word used innumerable times by people throughout the social spectrum. Even during a "revision de rutina" by metro police.
 

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Not to be argumentative, TG, but in all my years in Guadalajara I have heard the word used innumerable times by people throughout the social spectrum. Even during a "revision de rutina" by metro police.
We must travel in different circles. I have been here for nearly 8 years, but that hardly makes me an expert.
 

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We must travel in different circles. I have been here for nearly 8 years, but that hardly makes me an expert.
I am not doubting your experience. Mine happens to differ is all. I lived in Guadalajara for 36 years until recently semi-retiring 2 years ago to our home on the Jalisco coast where we had resided for several years prior to relocating to Guadalajara. Those years included the birth of my 3 kids, the oldest who will turn 36 this month.
 

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During my annual trips to Jalisco (Guadalajara, PV and pueblos in-between), I very rarely hear the term "******".

I've used it, but only in the US and only when visiting a coffee joint in Berkeley (operated by Mexicans).

I'll have a Double ****** please :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
During my annual trips to Jalisco (Guadalajara, PV and pueblos in-between), I very rarely hear the term "******".

I've used it, but only in the US and only when visiting a coffee joint in Berkeley (operated by Mexicans).

I'll have a Double ****** please :p
As, for years, we lived in Oakland and San Francisco and frequented Berkeley for many reasons but often to visit some favored coffee joints during the years (1960s and 70s) when a decent cup of coffee was hard to find even in North Beach, the somewhat Italian enclave where we finally settled for years before moving to the Mayacamas Mountains, after having become tired of endless concrete in largely treeless San Francisco. In the 1960s, I moved to Paris for a time and, as Julia Child used to say (more or less) discovered eye-opening great food, coffee and wine. Those noisy and constantly busy "café express" bars in Paris were a delight after the Brown swill served up as coffee in my native Alabama. One could even spice up a demi-tass of coffee with a Little cognac in certain joints and the rest of the day flew by without remorse.

When you order a "Café ******" in Berkeley that is, I think, a "Café Americano" here in Mexico. When I´m on the road here, especially in Puebla State, I need to stop at one of the many branches of The Italian Coffee Company which has good coffee if not up to the standards of Italy but way better than OXXO in my opinion , I always order a Café Americano with two shots of espresso. It´s a 19 hour drive between Lake Chapala and San Cristóbal de Las Casas but, thanks to Puebla´s Italian Coffee Company chain with branches at many Pemex Stations down there, I remain alert -the whole time, perhaps even a bit wired.
 

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San Miguel de Allende? Mexico Light.
What is "Mexico light"?
Is there a hard Mexico? A "real" Mexico?
Is It only Mexico where there are a bunch of indigenas? Or poverty?

To me, ( not "in my humble opinion") Mexico is all within the Republic. The nicer parts, the poor parts, the educated, the ignorant.
Is it the real US New York? Or is it the south US light because they are less educated?
Or California, is it light US?
 
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