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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
isn't Spain discouraging jobseekers from EU countries to come here now though, in a way, what with the 'proof of income' requirements?
It could turn nasty. The Uk people doesnt need an excuse to "pick" on immigrants and retaliation for the way Spain is treating immigrants isnt going to help. I worry about the eurozone and Europe in general!!

Jo xxx
 

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BBC News - Euro crisis: UK plans for rise in immigrants The BBC news this morning is full of talk of trying to "discourage" Spanish and Greek job seekers coming to the UK??? Hhhhmmm, not sure what the repercussions would be???

Jo xxx
Jojo on the greeks or the UK? But now it looks like it is how and when Greece goes (Ms Legarde making her thoughts clear) I hope at least plans can be debated, tested, and put sensibly in place.

What will be interesting is the plan for the Euro. Perhaps dump Spain and Portugal (I feel sorry for the latter but they will surely have to follow Spain?) and then stabilise. Or go with the 16.

I see Ireland from the latest opinion poll look although they will vote 'Yes' on Thursday. And I can't see Italy getting the boot. I mean Germany doesn't want Europe flooded with cheap Ferraris ;)

And despite Bankia the markets seem to have accounted for Spain's demise. God knows were Bankia's 19 billion is coming from :confused2:
 

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isn't Spain discouraging jobseekers from EU countries to come here now though, in a way, what with the 'proof of income' requirements?
In what way is the Spanish government achieving this?? That would be against EU Law wouldn't it? and the free movement of EU citizens. I accept it would be a good idea but surely illegal??
 

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In what way is the Spanish government achieving this?? That would be against EU Law wouldn't it? and the free movement of EU citizens. I accept it would be a good idea but surely illegal??
Thrax there is wriggle room:

"BBC political correspondent Robin Brant said the government had some room for manoeuvre because there are rules in place for extreme situations which allow for some temporary restrictions on immigration." :)
 

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Thrax there is wriggle room:

"BBC political correspondent Robin Brant said the government had some room for manoeuvre because there are rules in place for extreme situations which allow for some temporary restrictions on immigration." :)
So if Robin Brant is correct, there's the loophole. However, even if it was illegal, would it really stop the governments doing what they want? I tend to think it all comes down to an investigation that would happen in a few years time, followed by a fine, that either wouldn't be paid or would be paid in even more years down the line, all of which wouldn't matter at all to the present governments.
 

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So if Robin Brant is correct, there's the loophole. However, even if it was illegal, would it really stop the governments doing what they want? I tend to think it all comes down to an investigation that would happen in a few years time, followed by a fine, that either wouldn't be paid or would be paid in even more years down the line, all of which wouldn't matter at all to the present governments.
But legal or otherwise does it not make sense? Do we want people spending their last beans running round Europe thinking the grass is always greener? If a Greek has a job in London then good luck to them but turning up on spec is not going to necessarily turn out well. And I believe Ms May is planning for the latter type of immigrant. Well I hope so ;)
 

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In what way is the Spanish government achieving this?? That would be against EU Law wouldn't it? and the free movement of EU citizens. I accept it would be a good idea but surely illegal??
no it's not illegal

when us EU citizens used to have to 'apply for a residencia card' the same conditions were in force

then when that chenged to 'register as resident' the requirement was lifted - but the facility for re-instating it was left in place


so all they have done is re-instate it under EU rules

I think France & Italy have the requirement - some EU countries do & always have I believe, anyway :confused2:
 

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But legal or otherwise does it not make sense? Do we want people spending their last beans running round Europe thinking the grass is always greener? If a Greek has a job in London then good luck to them but turning up on spec is not going to necessarily turn out well. And I believe Ms May is planning for the latter type of immigrant. Well I hope so ;)
Ahh, dear Nigel, that is a different matter which I'm not getting into before another cup of tea, taking the dog for a walk and getting dressed - not in that order!!!
Please excuse my ignorance, but who is Ms May?
 

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In what way is the Spanish government achieving this?? That would be against EU Law wouldn't it? and the free movement of EU citizens. I accept it would be a good idea but surely illegal??
No. I've posted before that the rules under the Single European Act allow for 'special circumstances' restrictions.
All other EU states except ROI and the UK imposed these restrictions in 2004 when the post-socialist bloc states joined the EU.
The UK has sensibly imposed restrictions on entrants from Bulgaria and Romania.
It would be utter folly and social dynamite for the UK not to close the borders.
As I've said before, this debate isn't about race it's about numbers. The UK is already one of the world's most densely populated nations. We have a pressing shortage of housing and other infrastructure because of the million plus job-seekers and their dependents who have arrived in the past ten years.
Money is flowing out of Greece and Spain....next it will be people.


And three cheers for Christine LaGarde. About time someone told it like it is.
Many Greek and Spanish people enjoyed the feast. Now the bill has arrived.
The sad thing, the real tragedy, is that those that never got to the table will suffer too.

Maybe 'ordinary' people will now realise that their support for a lifestyle based on cheap credit so they could buy the things the truly rich could pay on demand was good while it lasted but was propped up by smoke and mirrors.

George Bush Senior once described free-market theories as 'voodoo economics'.
Now the black magic has gone, we're left with the curse.
 

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No. I've posted before that the rules under the Single European Act allow for 'special circumstances' restrictions.
All other EU states except ROI and the UK imposed these restrictions in 2004 when the post-socialist bloc states joined the EU.
The UK has sensibly imposed restrictions on entrants from Bulgaria and Romania.
It would be utter folly and social dynamite for the UK not to close the borders.
As I've said before, this debate isn't about race it's about numbers. The UK is already one of the world's most densely populated nations. We have a pressing shortage of housing and other infrastructure because of the million plus job-seekers and their dependents who have arrived in the past ten years.
Money is flowing out of Greece and Spain....next it will be people.


And three cheers for Christine LaGarde. About time someone told it like it is.
Many Greek and Spanish people enjoyed the feast. Now the bill has arrived.
The sad thing, the real tragedy, is that those that never got to the table will suffer too.

Maybe 'ordinary' people will now realise that their support for a lifestyle based on cheap credit so they could buy the things the truly rich could pay on demand was good while it lasted but was propped up by smoke and mirrors.

George Bush Senior once described free-market theories as 'voodoo economics'.
Now the black magic has gone, we're left with the curse.
Mary I agreed with all of that!! Of course only very few benefited and noticeably they will suffer least. And the crooks will make even more money now. But I'm off before we fall out.

As for pains I'm sure you will remember the well known alternative remedy - Spanish wine and olives interspersed with G&Ts :cool:
 

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An interpretation of the EU from Doggyworld:

The Germans make the rules.

The French say they will follow the rules ….. then do whatever they please.

The Spanish say they will follow the rules when they can find the paperwork with the rules on.

The Italians don’t know what the rules are because they’re way too busy having a good time to bother about stuff like that.

The Greeks (and all the others) would love to follow the rules but haven’t a hope in hell of getting anywhere near.

The Brits, although sitting firmly on the outer fence of the EU, follow the rules implicitly because that’s only proper and it wouldn’t do to let Johnny Foreigner see them cutting any corners.



This EU politics lark? …….. piece’o’piddle!






Doggy
 

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As I've said before, this debate isn't about race it's about numbers.
In theory you are absolutely correct.
In the way this debate is being interpreted by many UK citizens, I think you are wrong.

And we could turn the debate on its head and agree that Spain has the right under EU law to restrict EU citizens arriving and looking for work and free state healthcare. And that this is also about numbers.

But the reality is that there is more anti-immigrant graffiti here than there was this time last year, that the Spanish press often gets it wrong by saying that the British are getting free health care at Spain's expense, and that immigrants to Spain are not as welcome as they were before the Crisis (and even then, in some quarters they were tolerated rather than accepted).

Yes, this is all about numbers, but the numbers game can very quickly get mixed up with racism. It's a fine line which, in times of crisis, many are prepared to cross.
 

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And three cheers for Christine LaGarde. About time someone told it like it is.
Many Greek and Spanish people enjoyed the feast. Now the bill has arrived.
The sad thing, the real tragedy, is that those that never got to the table will suffer too.

Maybe 'ordinary' people will now realise that their support for a lifestyle based on cheap credit so they could buy the things the truly rich could pay on demand was good while it lasted but was propped up by smoke and mirrors.

.
Well well well, Mary. As usual you are contradicting yourself.

Reading LaGarde's comment made me rewind back in time and remembered our little discussion, a few months back, here http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...g-spain/81823-one-practical-step-forward.html where *gasp* I dared to blame our crisis on the virtudes, or lack thereof, of selfrestraint, frugality and saving.

Furthermore, I said, and I quote myself:

They wouldn't be greedy lenders without irresponsible borrowers.

What happened during the last seven years or so was that your average village idiot , which let me asure you there are many out here, on a bogus temporary work contract could suddendly buy his dream mansion together with loans for a sports car and the senora's boob job. He is not the real victim, you are, together with your prudent hard working neighbours and the hopeless young that have to endure now the public cuts, lower standards of health care and education, less help, the prospect of a future without a real job..
More regulation is of course needed as well as making mortgages far less available , but I have little sympathy for those who borrowed with no control knowing that they couldn possibly pay back. They wanted their piece of an imaginary cake and got what they bargained for.
TO which you reply, and I quote you now:

According to your view, the greater percentage of the population of Spain, Greece etc. are mindless morons who deserve their fate.

Whilst one might think that to be true, given the recent vote for the PP, a party which allies itself to many of those failed free market policies, I see it as a view which shows contempt for people who through no fault of their own have seen their lives plunged into uncertainty by idiot politicians.

Blaming powerless people for the consequences of their failed policies....that's the problem with these right-wingers
So why are you cheering Lagarde for saying something that you seemed to absoultely disagreed with.

The bill has indeed arrived. It will be the hopeless younger generation who foots it, because, lets face it, a large percentage of of our population were mindless morons .
 

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I have a plan.

Spain has too many empty houses and not enough people. The UK has a housing shortage and too many people.

In return for bailing out Bankia, the Spanish government takes ownership of its vast property portfolio. Anyone currently unemployed and getting housing benefit or a pension in the UK can come and live in these properties for as long as they like, and Britain pays Spain half of what it would have spent housing these people in the UK. All these people can spend their benefits and pensions in Spain, helping our economy. The Brits can stop moaning about over-population and everyone will be happy, no???
 

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Well well well, Mary. As usual you are contradicting yourself.

Reading LaGarde's comment made me rewind back in time and remembered our little discussion, a few months back, here http://www.expatforum.com/expats/sp...g-spain/81823-one-practical-step-forward.html where *gasp* I dared to blame our crisis on the virtudes, or lack thereof, of selfrestraint, frugality and saving.

Furthermore, I said, and I quote myself:



TO which you reply, and I quote you now:



So why are you cheering Lagarde for saying something that you seemed to absoultely disagreed with.

The bill has indeed arrived. It will be the hopeless younger generation who foots it, because, lets face it, a large percentage of of our population were mindless morons .
Because she was talking about Greece. I have said many times that Greeks must take some responsibility for the state of their economy. I have never disagreed with her sviews as expressed in today's interview. Look again at previous posts.
And because I have also pointed out that cheap credit and huge wage increases not accompanied by increased productivity have also contributed to Spain's problems. Spanish wages rose many times higher than German wages but productivity fell far behind.
And I have said many times that no-one put a gun to people's heads to force them to take out mortgages. I have also said that the 'innocent' will suffer with the 'guilty'.

Where's your problem?
 

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I have a plan.

Spain has too many empty houses and not enough people. The UK has a housing shortage and too many people.

In return for bailing out Bankia, the Spanish government takes ownership of its vast property portfolio. Anyone currently unemployed and getting housing benefit or a pension in the UK can come and live in these properties for as long as they like, and Britain pays Spain half of what it would have spent housing these people in the UK. All these people can spend their benefits and pensions in Spain, helping our economy. The Brits can stop moaning about over-population and everyone will be happy, no???

And I'll be on Page Three of The Sun next week, pigs will fly and we'll all have bacon butties for breakfast.
 
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