Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
G

·
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good evening,

I am looking to move out to spain within the next year some questions i would like to know are about spanish tax laws and regulations. I work offshore on dive support vessels as an officer and I currently working in the middle east. If i become a spanish resident and declare myself out of britain will i need to pay tax on my salay. I will be out the country for more than the recommended 183 days. This was the same law in UK but now the rules have changed which is the main reason i am moving out of the UK. Any answers to this will be much appriciated. Also would i need to pay an national insurance or anything else like this.
Are there specific spanish forms I would need to complete to proce this.

Thankx Marc
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,156 Posts
MARC - Find a GOOD financial advisor.

FREELANCE NI dues are about 238€/month. Almost certainly you'll be tax liable. RESIDENTS PAY TAX even if away for a while. As a certain lady tennis player found out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Good evening,

I am looking to move out to spain within the next year some questions i would like to know are about spanish tax laws and regulations. I work offshore on dive support vessels as an officer and I currently working in the middle east. If i become a spanish resident and declare myself out of britain will i need to pay tax on my salay. I will be out the country for more than the recommended 183 days. This was the same law in UK but now the rules have changed which is the main reason i am moving out of the UK. Any answers to this will be much appriciated. Also would i need to pay an national insurance or anything else like this.
Are there specific spanish forms I would need to complete to proce this.

Thankx Marc
Hi Marc,
I work offshore, on oil survey vessels. I am not aware the rules in the for qualification of tax refund have changed. I was offshore for a total over just over 183 days.I submitted my tax return(online) in may this year, and received a full tax refund.
Now i am resident in Spain, currently according to my accountant, here in spain, the same rules apply. 183 days out of the country. As i get paid from a UK company, my tax office have issued me with a Zero tax code. So my pay is currently gross pay. I am looking at paying the minmum amount to UK national insurance for pension purposes. I will not have to pay the same in Spain. The only taxes i pay in spain ae the local ones and medical.

Hope some of this helps.

Spaceman
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi Marc,
I work offshore, on oil survey vessels. I am not aware the rules in the for qualification of tax refund have changed. I was offshore for a total over just over 183 days.I submitted my tax return(online) in may this year, and received a full tax refund.
Now i am resident in Spain, currently according to my accountant, here in spain, the same rules apply. 183 days out of the country. As i get paid from a UK company, my tax office have issued me with a Zero tax code. So my pay is currently gross pay. I am looking at paying the minmum amount to UK national insurance for pension purposes. I will not have to pay the same in Spain. The only taxes i pay in spain ae the local ones and medical.

Hope some of this helps.

Spaceman
Brilliant info there it has took me ages to finally get an answer i have been getting told that many differnet stories. I was more than certain that you wouldnt need to pay tax if out the country for more than 183 days. Iunderstand that with you being employed with a uk company that you require to get a zero tax code as you are not a resident in the uk anymore. as i work for a forigne company this should not matter anyway as i dont a have a tax code in UK. As you wont be paying tax in Spain what sort of taxes do you pay if you dont mind me asking is it so you qulaify for stae health care and there pension scheme, and they defo dont tax your gross income correct.
Thanks very mich for you time and help I am now certain i will be in spain this time next year

Cheers marc:D
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Bad Spelling Marc, lol... can you give us the details of your accountant so I can keep on record so when we move over I can get in contact with him? we are looking into moving to the malaga Area... rgs Lynda
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
After many hours speaking to different tax people. Finally came up with the answers. just a note for everyone else in the same position as myself. Basically if you are out the country Spain for the ecommended 183 days a year and you dont break the half day rule your salary will be tax free. (as we are seafarers) You will need to complete a spanish tax form t declare tha you are working out the country and have proof eg discharge book etc. If you are working and geting paid through a UK company you may be liable to get taxed then you would need to claim this back at end of tax year on the same basis. although mot UK companies pay you through channel islands so thats mainly covered aswell. The majority of EU contries have the same SED rule as the UK.
:clap2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,399 Posts
although mot UK companies pay you through channel islands so thats mainly covered aswell.
:clap2:

But offshore banks report to the UK tax authorities. Even credit card records are scrutinised by HMRC to determine residency for tax purposes.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
I currently live in Sweden with my wife and kids but am making the move to Spain, maybe Estepona in Sept/Oct starting off by renting until we have found an area which we feel like it could be a good place to settle

I work as a Chief Steward onboard a privat yacht so i will be out of the country for about 8 months of the year, i need a little advice if anybody can regarding seamans tax, maybe a good financial adviser, and also someone who deals with longterm rentals,,
Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
seamans tax spain

I currently live in Sweden with my wife and kids but am making the move to Spain, maybe Estepona in Sept/Oct starting off by renting until we have found an area which we feel like it could be a good place to settle

I work as a Chief Steward onboard a privat yacht so i will be out of the country for about 8 months of the year, i need a little advice if anybody can regarding seamans tax, maybe a good financial adviser, and also someone who deals with longterm rentals,,
Thanks
Hi I am also moving to Spain, and work as a chef on a private yacht. I will also likely be out of Spain for 183 days. Did you manage to find out any solid information regarding tax liability in Spain, or anyone who can deal with tax issues for mariners?

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
seamans tax spain

After many hours speaking to different tax people. Finally came up with the answers. just a note for everyone else in the same position as myself. Basically if you are out the country Spain for the ecommended 183 days a year and you dont break the half day rule your salary will be tax free. (as we are seafarers) You will need to complete a spanish tax form t declare tha you are working out the country and have proof eg discharge book etc. If you are working and geting paid through a UK company you may be liable to get taxed then you would need to claim this back at end of tax year on the same basis. although mot UK companies pay you through channel islands so thats mainly covered aswell. The majority of EU contries have the same SED rule as the UK.
:clap2:
Hi there.

Is it possible to tell me where you got your info from regarding the seamans dispensation in Spain. I will be moving there this February, and will need to become resident to enable my non EU wife's residency.

I will be out of Spain for more than 183 days through the year, and from May once joining my new vessel I will not break the 1/2 day rule. Between now and May I am on a retainer, so perhaps I will have to pay tax on this, and start my tax free status from May? If you have found anyone who can advise and organise legitimate tax returns it would be great to know. I work on a private yacht registered in the Caymans. I still plan on filling out UK tax returns, as after 2 years my wife will be able to apply for Spanish citizenship as a resident from a former colony (she is Cuban). At that point I will give up my Spanish residency status and periods in Spain will be as a tourist, thereby enabling me to only do the UK tax return.

Also in regards to medical, local taxes do you have any info regarding these. We will be living in Palma Mallorca. Any info would be much appreciated!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,690 Posts
Hi there.

Is it possible to tell me where you got your info from regarding the seamans dispensation in Spain. I will be moving there this February, and will need to become resident to enable my non EU wife's residency.

I will be out of Spain for more than 183 days through the year, and from May once joining my new vessel I will not break the 1/2 day rule. Between now and May I am on a retainer, so perhaps I will have to pay tax on this, and start my tax free status from May? If you have found anyone who can advise and organise legitimate tax returns it would be great to know. I work on a private yacht registered in the Caymans. I still plan on filling out UK tax returns, as after 2 years my wife will be able to apply for Spanish citizenship as a resident from a former colony (she is Cuban). At that point I will give up my Spanish residency status and periods in Spain will be as a tourist, thereby enabling me to only do the UK tax return.

Also in regards to medical, local taxes do you have any info regarding these. We will be living in Palma Mallorca. Any info would be much appreciated!

Don't get fiscal residency and "residency" (which is simply signing on the list of foreigners) mixed up .... they are two different things
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Don't get fiscal residency and "residency" (which is simply signing on the list of foreigners) mixed up .... they are two different things
So I can be a Spanish resident , in order to make use of my EU treaty rights (freedom of movement which will subsequently allow my non EU wife Spanish residence, with an EU family residence card, whilst at the same time not being a fiscal resident.

Is there any literature on this?

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
238 Posts
Any of you work offshore on rigs or are you all boat crew, trying to find out what the deal will be for someone working offshore for a dubai company and working in either north sea or africa while living in Spain with my wife n kids.
Is it the same 183 day rule or the fact the my family live will be living there I would have to pay spanish taxes ? not really sure which accountants to ask as I don't know any in the UK that would deal with Spanish tax and don't know any at all in Spain. Any help/info much appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
further info

Don't get fiscal residency and "residency" (which is simply signing on the list of foreigners) mixed up .... they are two different things
Hi Stravinsky

Ok now I understand the difference between residency and fiscal residency.

The problem I believe I may have is this. Although I will be out of the country for over the 183 days per year, my wife will not, and from having read in many places that the Spanish authorities will assume fiscal residency for me based on my wife's residency, unless I can prove fiscal residency in another country. If this is the case how do I prove fiscal residency in the UK - I will be out of both countries for more than 183 days per year. My wife however will be living in Spain permanently.

Having spoken to various tax advisors in Spain many said that a lot of people with offshore income just don't bother to declare it. I assume this could be a bit risky if caught!

I have now established that Spain doesn't actually have a seaman's tax dispensation like in the UK. Therefore it would be far more preferable to be considered a UK fiscal resident an d pay zero income tax, as opposed to Spanish fiscal resident and pay tax on worldwide income.

Cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,690 Posts
Just because your wife becomes a fiscal tax resident doesnt mean that you will, or at least if thats the case I have never heard it before. In fact theres someone on here that resides in Spain whilst her husband is resident in the UK.

I'm sure its right, there are many people who dont declare. I guess if you do it you take the risk and if necessary accept the consequences.

So from what you say, then it would seem sensible to pay the tax in the UK. You wont be a tax resident here anyway, so it's not an issue. The worst that could possibly happen would that you would end up paying the difference between UK and Spanish tax .... but from what you have described that seems very unlikely indeed.

EDIT

I'm not 100% sure, but because you would be paying tax and NI in the UK, that would in effect mean that you could claim child benefit on your wifes behalf if indeed that applies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Just because your wife becomes a fiscal tax resident doesnt mean that you will, or at least if thats the case I have never heard it before. In fact theres someone on here that resides in Spain whilst her husband is resident in the UK.

I'm sure its right, there are many people who dont declare. I guess if you do it you take the risk and if necessary accept the consequences.

So from what you say, then it would seem sensible to pay the tax in the UK. You wont be a tax resident here anyway, so it's not an issue. The worst that could possibly happen would that you would end up paying the difference between UK and Spanish tax .... but from what you have described that seems very unlikely indeed.

EDIT

I'm not 100% sure, but because you would be paying tax and NI in the UK, that would in effect mean that you could claim child benefit on your wifes behalf if indeed that applies.
OK if that is the case then there would be no problem - the issue is in most places I have seen the criteria for being fiscal resident as highlighted below - assumption of of spouse being resident' note the text in red.

I could get a certificate of fiscal residence from the UK Inland revenue to use as proof.

The difference between the UK and Spanish tax would be huge (around 40,000 euros) as in the UK I receive 100% income tax relief through mariner's dispensation, whereas in Spain this does not exist.

Am I obliged to actually submit a Spanish tax return (no property or income in Spain), or should I only provide evidence if they contact me?


'A. Residence of the individual

Individuals are deemed to be residents in Spain when they meet any of the following criteria:

They remain in Spain for more than 183 days during a calendar year. In order to determine the period of stay, sporadic absences are included in the count, except those where the tax residence in another country is proved. In the case of countries or territories labelled as tax havens, the Tax Administration can demand proof of stay in that tax haven over a period of 183 days in a calendar year. In order to determine the period of stay, temporary stays in Spain that are the consequence of contractual obligations in agreements of cultural or humanitarian collaborations performed free of charge with the Spanish Public Administrations are not included.
Their main base or centre of activities or economic interests is, directly or indirectly, in Spain. Also, it is presumed, except if proved otherwise, that a taxpayer has his usual place of residence in Spain when, using the above criteria, his spouse -not legally separated- and underage dependent children are permanent residents in Spain.'
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,690 Posts
OK if that is the case then there would be no problem - the issue is in most places I have seen the criteria for being fiscal resident as highlighted below - assumption of of spouse being resident' note the text in red.

I could get a certificate of fiscal residence from the UK Inland revenue to use as proof.

The difference between the UK and Spanish tax would be huge (around 40,000 euros) as in the UK I receive 100% income tax relief through mariner's dispensation, whereas in Spain this does not exist.

Am I obliged to actually submit a Spanish tax return (no property or income in Spain), or should I only provide evidence if they contact me?


'A. Residence of the individual

Individuals are deemed to be residents in Spain when they meet any of the following criteria:

They remain in Spain for more than 183 days during a calendar year. In order to determine the period of stay, sporadic absences are included in the count, except those where the tax residence in another country is proved. In the case of countries or territories labelled as tax havens, the Tax Administration can demand proof of stay in that tax haven over a period of 183 days in a calendar year. In order to determine the period of stay, temporary stays in Spain that are the consequence of contractual obligations in agreements of cultural or humanitarian collaborations performed free of charge with the Spanish Public Administrations are not included.
Their main base or centre of activities or economic interests is, directly or indirectly, in Spain. Also, it is presumed, except if proved otherwise, that a taxpayer has his usual place of residence in Spain when, using the above criteria, his spouse -not legally separated- and underage dependent children are permanent residents in Spain.'
Well ... all I can say is when you think logically, how can you be a fiscal tax resident in Spain when you dont live here. You are paying your tax in the UK, which is where you are deemed a tax resident.

Its only my opinion, but I wouldnt submit a tax return in Spain, because by doing that you are declaring your tax residency in Spain. Your wife will be a different matter. She will need to make a return after the required period, and separately to you. My wife and I make separate returns. The allowances are better :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Well ... all I can say is when you think logically, how can you be a fiscal tax resident in Spain when you dont live here. You are paying your tax in the UK, which is where you are deemed a tax resident.

Its only my opinion, but I wouldnt submit a tax return in Spain, because by doing that you are declaring your tax residency in Spain. Your wife will be a different matter. She will need to make a return after the required period, and separately to you. My wife and I make separate returns. The allowances are better :)
Thanks for the advice - I think you are right file UK tax return and hope for the best!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
681 Posts
But offshore banks report to the UK tax authorities.
Not in the case of the Channel Isles or Gibraltar as I understand it, providing you opt for automatic tax retention on interest.

However this will not be the case in the Isle of Man from July onwards, where full disclosure will apply.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top