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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all ,

I have read lot here about no EU married with a French

I would like to know if the new rules applied for who is a NO EU married with an EU but no French.

From what I could read on the FR Consulate web page seems that I would need a visa upfront before move to FR .

Any anyone confirm that .

Thanks a lot
 

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Read through the archives here. It's actually easier to get into France with rights to work, etc. if your spouse is an EU national, but NOT French. If your spouse has the right to settle in France due to their EU nationality, you only need a visa if you're not from one of the countries that can enter the Schengen area as a "tourist" without a visa.

If the non-EU spouse is, for example, American, they can just enter France with their EU spouse like a tourist. Once they are settled in, you report to the local mairie with all your documentation (passport, proof of residence, etc.) and your EU spouse's proof of nationality (national id card, passport, whatever) and they are supposed to give you a carte de séjour with full rights.

If you can't enter France like an American, you just need to get a short-stay tourist visa at your local consulate. Then, when you get settled, you go down to the mairie and apply for the carte de séjour.

If you spouse is French, however, none of that applies to you. Makes no sense, but you get used to that after a while here...
Cheers,
Bev
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
HI

Thanks for the reply

I can enter FR with no Visa

On the Text Below from FR Embassy I highlight the text in red

So you saying this would not applied to my case ?

2- Visa of establishment in France Retour à la table des matières

The foreign spouse of a French citizen (with exception to members of the European Union, of European Economic Space, of Switzerland, of Monaco, of St. Martin and of Algeria) must obtain a long stay visa, valid as a resident card, in order to make a longer stay than 90 days in France. If granted this visa is also a resident card at the same time, valid for as long as a year. You will only need to resgister at the local branch of OFII upon three first months of arrival in France.

If you stay more than a year in France, you will then need apply for a Resident Card ("Carte de Séjour")

This visa applies to all nationalities, including US Citizens. (excluding Algerian or EU spouses of french nationals, for whom different agreements exists.)

This visa needs a minimum of 10 to 15 business days (2 to 3 weeks) to be processed depending on your nationality. (the minimum 10 business days time frame applies to all nationalities) We strongly recommend to apply for this visa at least 3 to 4 weeks prior to the planned trip.

If you would like to settle in France, the following documents must be presented :


You have to apply with all the required documents in original and one copy. The visa section does not make any copies.

PERSONNAL APPEARANCE IS MENDATORY : you cannot apply by mail.



- passport valid for three months after the last date of stay in the Schengen States. Please make sure the passport holds at least two spare pages to apply the visa if delivered by the consulate services and the entry/out stamps at the border. Your passeport should also be in good condition to be accepted.

- copies of the 5 first pages of your passport.

- 2 long stay application forms filled out and clearly readable. Please use black ink. Make sure your cell phone number and e-mail address are also added upon the forms,

Translation in English of the long stay visa application form.

- 2 photographs (more informations about the photograph) . All photos must be recent, identical, passport size - 1,4" x 1,7" (3,5cm x 4,5cm) and showing face front the forehead hairline and ears on a white background, the face must take up 70-80% of the photograph.

- An OFII Form (this form is only available in french) that you will have filled in all the first superior part (above the middle section). If your visa is granted, the consulate will stamp this form and give it back. You will then fill in the last portion of it upon your arrival in france and send it to the closest local branch of the OFII of your home in france.

- a proof of status held in the United States (green card, valid american visa with the I-94, and the valid I-20 or the valid I-AP66….) for non - American citizens. Holders of a B1/B2 visa will require a more complex and longer procedure, and are obliged to apply in person,

- Deed of your house/appartment in France.

- for the spouse of a French citizen : - the " livret de famille", or a copy of the marriage certificate, or the French official transcription of your marriage when it took place overseas, - as well as a proof of French nationality of your spouse (national identity card or French national certificate), excluding the french national passport which is not sufficient by itself. (+ copy)

- for the spouse of a citizen of the European Union : - a copy of the French translation of your marriage certificate, - as well as a proof of European nationality.

- A prepaid express envelope for the return of your passport when the visa has been affixed in it. The passport is left at the visa office and we recommend this option. You may however keep your passport during the process. In this case you will have to show up in person a second time with your passport for the issuance of the visa.

- this visa is free of charge.
 
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The non-EU spouse needs to come in on a 3 month Schengen visa, and then apply for a residence permit within 3 months of arrival. No requirement to have a certain level of spoken French r knowledge of French institutions, as is currently being enforced for non-EU spouses of French citizens.

There are two recent threads on this very topic, that explain the situation very clearly. If you can't find them using the search facility, someone will provide the links no doubt.
 

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The non-EU spouse needs to come in on a 3 month Schengen visa, and then apply for a residence permit within 3 months of arrival. No requirement to have a certain level of spoken French r knowledge of French institutions, as is currently being enforced for non-EU spouses of French citizens.

There are two recent threads on this very topic, that explain the situation very clearly. If you can't find them using the search facility, someone will provide the links no doubt.
Basically, if a EU citizen with a non-EU spouse wants to move to another EU country other than their own, the EU rules take precedence over national regulations and they have a right to be accompanied by their spouse. The EU country in which they are resident aren't allowed to make things difficult for migrant family, such as imposing language test and a long and complicated visa procedure.
But if the same EU citizen wants to live in their native country with their non-EU spouse, the national legislation takes over and the government can put in all sorts of conditions about the non-EU spouse's stay, such as language requirement and a long and complicated visa application process.
A further twist to the situation is that if the couple, having lived in another EU state for 6 months or more, then want to move to the native country of the EU citizen, the so-called Surinder Singh provision kicks in and they can claim EU right to be accompanied by their non-EU spouse. This specifically applies to UK, which has lost its case in the European Court of Human Rights. France, among other states, claim that the judgement is only binding on UK and other member states aren't obliged to implement it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Guys

Based on the Text I first post from the FR Embassy it is saying that I NO EU Married with an EU citizen that is not French also has to apply for e Long Sejour Visa .

Please read text in RED which lead to one understand that is applicable also for my case .

I may be wrong been trying to call the FR Consulate where I live but no luck also

the Immigration Office in FR also no luck

Can someone shine a light if Long Sejour Visa must be applied for NO EU married an EU other the a Fhench

Thanks a lot
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
More Backgrond info

Well I will give more info on my case so you folks can give advice.

me and my wife both live in Poland and will be moving together.

she will not work and I will go with a job offer already .

In case I don't need a Long Sejour visa and can just go and applied for the Carte de Sejour at the city hall How long does take? more less once I will need to start to work very soon .

Also once I will be working and paying Social Security does my wife can have access to the medical care ?

Do we need Private insurance for applying ,once she will not be working ?

We both will have EHIC cards and I am an South American but have lived in PL for 3 years married and have the PL residence card .

Hope you folks can help with some feedback

Thanks you all
 
G

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The wife of a non-French EU citizen living in France applies for a short-stay visa, before the expiry of which a residence permit has to be applied for. I'm taking my (Thai) wife's application into the town hall today, as it happens. It is a different process to the one that applies to spouses of French citizens in France, as explained above.

Whether this applies to the spouse of a South American with a Polish residence card I don't know, but I have my doubts. What is your nationality? How long is the (Polish) residence card valid for?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
The wife of a non-French EU citizen living in France applies for a short-stay visa, before the expiry of which a residence permit has to be applied for. I'm taking my (Thai) wife's application into the town hall today, as it happens. It is a different process to the one that applies to spouses of French citizens in France, as explained above.

Whether this applies to the spouse of a South American with a Polish residence card I don't know, but I have my doubts. What is your nationality? How long is the (Polish) residence card valid for?

Maybe she been Thai needs a visa to enter France I am a Brazilian National can enter France and stay for 3 months as a Tourist , they would just stamp my passport .

Once I would fly from Poland would not have no stamps when arrive in FR once there are no passport controls anymore .

my card is valid here for 2 years .

Also my EU wife is not living in FR and we would both moving there which we are entitle to my mean concern is the waiting process once we apply for the CDS and if I can start working while wait ( most like not ) once I will go with a job line up and they ask me to start soon as possible and if I can`t maybe lose the job offer .

BR
 

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Well I will give more info on my case so you folks can give advice.

me and my wife both live in Poland and will be moving together.

she will not work and I will go with a job offer already .

In case I don't need a Long Sejour visa and can just go and applied for the Carte de Sejour at the city hall How long does take? more less once I will need to start to work very soon .

Also once I will be working and paying Social Security does my wife can have access to the medical care ?

Do we need Private insurance for applying ,once she will not be working ?

We both will have EHIC cards and I am an South American but have lived in PL for 3 years married and have the PL residence card .

Hope you folks can help with some feedback

Thanks you all
The part you highlighted in red is (unfortunately) rather typical of how the French write and post regulations. It seems to be something they "forgot" to fix when the EU regs came into effect, or else someone stuck it in, forgetting that the section was about visas for non-EU nationals married to French.

Assuming you apply for your carte de séjour at the local mairie, it can take anywhere from a couple weeks to a couple months for it to come through. They should, however, give you a recippissé (receipt) that will show you have applied and should work in most situations where you need to show the cds.

Once you are working, your employer should sign you up for the French national social security and whatever mutuelle they have. The cotisations will be deducted from your pay and both you and your wife will have access to the health care system. (Just remember, it's a reimbursement system - you pay for the services and then are reimbursed into your bank account by the system.)

If you both have EHIC's you don't need a private insurance - at least not for the first few months while the EHIC is covering you.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The part you highlighted in red is (unfortunately) rather typical of how the French write and post regulations. It seems to be something they "forgot" to fix when the EU regs came into effect, or else someone stuck it in, forgetting that the section was about visas for non-EU nationals married to French.

Assuming you apply for your carte de séjour at the local mairie, it can take anywhere from a couple weeks to a couple months for it to come through. They should, however, give you a recippissé (receipt) that will show you have applied and should work in most situations where you need to show the cds.

Once you are working, your employer should sign you up for the French national social security and whatever mutuelle they have. The cotisations will be deducted from your pay and both you and your wife will have access to the health care system. (Just remember, it's a reimbursement system - you pay for the services and then are reimbursed into your bank account by the system.)

If you both have EHIC's you don't need a private insurance - at least not for the first few months while the EHIC is covering you.
Cheers,
Bev
Great news I just came back from the Embassy after a long walk under - 10 !!

The lady I spoke to told me the same as you said so Tomorrow is my job interview so wish me luck

and once thanks a lot for your kind feedback
 

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Basically, if a EU citizen with a non-EU spouse wants to move to another EU country other than their own, the EU rules take precedence over national regulations and they have a right to be accompanied by their spouse. The EU country in which they are resident aren't allowed to make things difficult for migrant family, such as imposing language test and a long and complicated visa procedure.
But if the same EU citizen wants to live in their native country with their non-EU spouse, the national legislation takes over and the government can put in all sorts of conditions about the non-EU spouse's stay, such as language requirement and a long and complicated visa application process.
A further twist to the situation is that if the couple, having lived in another EU state for 6 months or more, then want to move to the native country of the EU citizen, the so-called Surinder Singh provision kicks in and they can claim EU right to be accompanied by their non-EU spouse. This specifically applies to UK, which has lost its case in the European Court of Human Rights. France, among other states, claim that the judgement is only binding on UK and other member states aren't obliged to implement it.
Hello Joppa

I think you have just made my day! I am British (English sctually) and living for my sins in the Philippines. My wife is Filipina and we have a beautiful daughter Chloe of almost 2yrs old.

I am 70 next month (not quite past my sell by date just yet) and my wife is 32. We really want to go to live in the UK, but the palava in getting a settlement visa is horrendous. In addition, the costs are getting prohibitive (about 2300 pounds for wife and child). which is probably lost if the visa is refused.

I lived in France for 17 years with my previous wife, and so have thought about coming back there to live. I do have an idea of the pros and cons although is is 7 years since i was last there. Can i assume that my wife is entitled to live there without the formalities required in the UK? I have read above that it is so, but just want confirmation bearing in mind her nationality. She will have to learn French in order to 'fit in' but that is no great problem. My French needs brushing up but is adequate.

Now, if for whatever reason, we can't make it work in France, then can i move to the UK with the family after the above mentioned period of 6 months? You never know where the Philippines is concerned!

Finally on the subject of living costs. Could we manage on 1200EU a month? We would need to rent initially near either Limoges or Angers as i have good friends in both places. Although my wife is a fully qualified hair stylist (having worked with TV personalities here in Manila for 10 years), i realise her chance of work there is probably limited. Would i be able to claim any of the UK benefits like pension credits and child allowances? I am not automatically expecting this, but one never knows if you don't ask!

Anyway i thank you sincerely for any help or advice you may be able to give. I only want my young family to have the chance of a better life than they can ever hope for in the Philippines, be it either France or the UK.

With regards
John

PS Please forgive me for asking the two questions which have seemingly already been answered in your post. It is just that it seems to be too good to be true, and it has taken me weeks of research:ranger: without finding this out until today:clap2:
 
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Hi Jonhig. As I mentioned earlier, there is a large and comprehensive thread on just this topic elsewhere in the France forum, where many of these issues have been discussed.

yes, the formalities are as Joppa describes; application first to the French embassy in the Philippines for the Schengen 3 month short-stay visa. Once issued and you are in France, then the application for the residence permit has to be made before the visa expires. Unlike the wife of a French national, she does not need a reasonable command of French and a minimum knowledge of French culture before presenting the visa request. The costs weren't horrendous - several documents need translating into French or English (the French Embassy now accepts both), and a document or two might be required from the British Consulate (which in Thailand charges silly money for a standard form), but the visa application itself was free. (Bear in mind that the residence permit application once in France will need some of these same documents, but this time translated into French only, groan). They are whilst still fresh in my mind - copy of wife's birth certificate, marriage certificate, a copy of the letter from the British Consulate stating that the Philippines marriage is recognised under British law, and (if applicable) a copy of any previous divorce certificates. It was worth my while getting this done in Thailand by a certified translator approved by the French Embassy, as it was considerably less expensive than the 30 euros or so per page charged by a sworn translator here in France.

However the good news does rather grind to a halt there. Firstly one of the requirements in the original application was for details of place of residence in France, and an indication of means of support. Ok the latter was hardly a rigorous examination - far from it - but the former meant that an address in France is needed when the application is submitted.

The second obstacle is the question of income. Does the 1,200 euros have to cover rental costs as well? If so, even for a couple, that is rather tight. Even out in the sticks a 1-bed flat goes for around 400 euros pm. Once heating etc etc costs kick in, then with the trips to the cheapest of food supermarkets, Aldi or Lidl, big chunks will soon start disappearing from that monthly sum. Living costs are several times what they are in Thailand - I imagine the comparison with the Philipines will be similar.

There are some advantages. If you are entitled to the UK state pension, then you are entitled to belong to the basic French regime f.o.c. However as you may know this doesn't cover all costs, so top-up insurance is a good idea, another cost. Your wife (and child) must be covered too - evidence of this is a requirement at the time of the residence permit application. Yes there would be child benefit entitlement, but this isn't a large sum for a single child.

As for ease of transfer from France to the UK, can't help you there, sorry - although Joppa has indicated how this can be achieved. My experience though is that between the regulations and what should be feasible, and what actually happens in practice, there is often a sizeable gulf when state administrations are involved.

Feel free to ask any more questions that come to mind. And here's another thread on this topic worth reading
 

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As for ease of transfer from France to the UK, can't help you there, sorry - although Joppa has indicated how this can be achieved. My experience though is that between the regulations and what should be feasible, and what actually happens in practice, there is often a sizeable gulf when state administrations are involved.
France to UK procedure is really straightforward. After 6 months living and working in France (documentary proofs needed, such as residence permit, job contract, payslips, marriage certificate etc), you apply to the British consulate in Paris for your wife's entry clearance as per Surinder Singh provision. It's free and shouldn't take too long (maybe a week or so). It should be for 5 years, but if not (it can be as short as 6 months), you have to apply to Home Office after arrival for EEA Family Permit valid 5 years (a sticker placed in her Thai passport). After 5 years she can apply for indefinite leave to remain (ILR) and then naturalisation as British citizen, if desired.
See http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/ecis/chapter2.pdf?view=Binary, esp 2.5.1. and 3.2.
 

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Start work with the recepissé?

Great news I just came back from the Embassy after a long walk under - 10 !!

The lady I spoke to told me the same as you said so Tomorrow is my job interview so wish me luck

and once thanks a lot for your kind feedback
Hi Zion,

Can you give me update on your situation please?
I'm in the same situation like you, I'm the spouse of an EU citizen who WILL move to france(not settled yet), also i have a job offer from Total.
Have you been able to start work with the receipt (recepissé) for the EU family member carte de sejour (vie privée et familiale) or you had to wait till the actual carte de sejour is issued?

If anyone else can advise it would be appreciated.
My specific question is: can I start work with the recepissé? Or I have to wait for the actual carte de sejour?
My employer got a very vague answer from the French authority which is " as he's the spouse of an EU citizen relocating to France, he has the right to live and work immediately, however, he has to apply for a carte de sejour"

Therefore, the employer now thinks that I can't start work until I receive my carte de sejour. Staying with no work for up to six months while I have a job offer is really not practical for me.

Please advise if you've been in this situation before.

Thanks a lot :)

Amro
 
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