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Ok.... Ive read the article (and the comments).

My first thought was that this read like a rather earnest PhD students paper. It opened a debate by taking a rather one-sided view, hoping that others would fill in the blanks!
I also thought that the case regarding the loss of private property to government subsidised institutions (subsidised by the taxes of ordinary people, who then in theory became the owners of that property) wasn't well argued (hence some of the comments).

Mary,
you picked out the two most pointed statements in the whole article.

I agree with the first statement absolutely, but the second (I think...) is muddled.

I can see that the writer is stating that those who invest their private property in banks are doing so at their own risk and therefore, should not expect to be helped by a bail out when things go wrong. After all, we live in a democracy where the decisions we make on the use of our property should be ours, not the states.

But the writer appears to assume that it is only the rich who do this.

As at least one person commented, to let the banks collapse would hit the poor and particularly the people in the middle, whose pension funds are invested there, much more than it would hurt the rich.

Perhaps more later.... :)
Lilico is a hard-line free marketeer. I like to read from both 'sides' to try to get a balanced picture.

The problem is that by going overboard for free market policies we've backed ourselves into a corner. The central issue is simply that by allowing banks and other such institutions to be 'too big to fail' because as you rightly point out the 'little people' and indeed the whole economy would be hurt we have created a situation where these institutions know they have total immunity, no matter what they do, what risks they take as the taxpayer will bail them out.

I cannot for the life of me see why banks that are saved by taxpayers' money should not be immediately nationalised. That would guarantee liquidity and allow for some democratic control over them.

At the moment our 'leaders' seemed to be paralysed....decisions have to be made and inevitably these will hurt some people. Far better to hurt those who can stand the pain.
 

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Writing off mortgages can't be good for the banks either, but at the same time the people are keeping them up and running.
Saw this story last night. It pulls me in both directions. Yeah sure it would be nice to walk away from 90% of my mortgage, but at the same time it doesn't make sense to kick people out of their home adding to all the other empty property stock!
I would hope they don't do this with everyone. I think it better to offer people to pay back half, or maybe double the length of the term but not add interest.
Everyone is a different case of course.
Spain House Evictions: Homeowners In Battle With Banks Over Unpaid Mortgages - Sky News Video Player
 

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Writing off mortgages can't be good for the banks either, but at the same time the people are keeping them up and running.
Saw this story last night. It pulls me in both directions. Yeah sure it would be nice to walk away from 90% of my mortgage, but at the same time it doesn't make sense to kick people out of their home adding to all the other empty property stock!
I would hope they don't do this with everyone. I think it better to offer people to pay back half, or maybe double the length of the term but not add interest.
Everyone is a different case of course.
Spain House Evictions: Homeowners In Battle With Banks Over Unpaid Mortgages - Sky News Video Player
If I were still involved in social housing provision I would call on Aytos to put Compulsory Purchase Orders on empty blocks where owners are bankrupt or for whatever reason cannot use them commercially.
I would then allocate units to homeless people and charge affordable rents to help pay for repairs and general maintenance.

Whilst it is true that many homeless people are so because of taking bad decisions, the punishment for stupiduty should never be loss of some kind of decent roof over your head, both for the sake of the individual and his/her family and for the wider community.
 

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Some news I found today. This guy is making the case for how Europe can easily fix its problems and what it shouldn't be doing! 11 mins long so go make a cupa and sit back and listen :)
 

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Spain now downgraded to triple B....100 billion euros said to be needed for bank bailout.
Now when I see that they have downgraded the USA (which is where downgrading is really deserved seeing as they caused all this mess), then that will be news
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Some news I found today. This guy is making the case for how Europe can easily fix its problems and what it shouldn't be doing! 11 mins long so go make a cupa and sit back and listen :)
'Budget cuts for Europe like pouring gas on fire' - YouTube
Thanks for posting this. I heard about this guy on the radio about a week ago, but it wasn't very easy to find any material on him. Will hopefully find time to watch tomorrow.
 

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Thanks for posting this. I heard about this guy on the radio about a week ago, but it wasn't very easy to find any material on him. Will hopefully find time to watch tomorrow.
I've only been watching that news channel for a couple of months and it makes for a refreshing change over the usual sanitized versions of news on most other channels IMO. They spend much more time interviewing people usually.
A must watch is the "Keiser Report" He's an ex stockbroker and seems to know what he's talking about and does it with a certain sense of style. Not everyone's taste but IMO he holds no shots and puts the boot in big time!! Very funny at times but he gets serious matters across really well.
Stacy Herbert his co-host keeps him in check lol and she usually covers the fine detail.
See what you think..
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
I've only been watching that news channel for a couple of months and it makes for a refreshing change over the usual sanitized versions of news on most other channels IMO. They spend much more time interviewing people usually.
A must watch is the "Keiser Report" He's an ex stockbroker and seems to know what he's talking about and does it with a certain sense of style. Not everyone's taste but IMO he holds no shots and puts the boot in big time!! Very funny at times but he gets serious matters across really well.
Stacy Herbert his co-host keeps him in check lol and she usually covers the fine detail.
See what you think..
Keiser Report: Paper Money Collapse (E297) - YouTube
I watched the Mark whatsisname video and the first part of the Keiser report, and they were well worth watching!!
Took me a while to get into the Keiser report as he's sssoooo - American I suppose is the word, but yes, it was informative and he did make me laugh too :D

So, if you have time I recommend the first part where they make some good points about .4%, Dixons, Richard Branson, arsonists, the role of corporations...
 

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I watched the Mark whatsisname video and the first part of the Keiser report, and they were well worth watching!!
Took me a while to get into the Keiser report as he's sssoooo - American I suppose is the word, but yes, it was informative and he did make me laugh too :D

So, if you have time I recommend the first part where they make some good points about .4%, Dixons, Richard Branson, arsonists, the role of corporations...
Glad you liked it. And... there are much funnier vids than that one if you have a search around. Mr Keiser always gets a bit carried away but I do enjoy a good laugh and he seems to be on a bit of a quest to show things how they really are.
Just in case anyone thinks he's only just all over the UK and Europe he isn't. He comes down very harsh on US bankers and such so hard I'm amazed with some of the things he says he hasn't been locked up yet lol :boxing:
If I can find a really funny one I watched a few weeks back I'll post it up.
 

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Here´s an amusing report from today´s Publico online edition:

Detenido en Ceuta por ir a misa disfrazado de diablo - Público.es

Los agentes de la Policía Local de Ceuta han denunciado a un hombre, cuya identidad no ha sido facilitada, cuando pretendía acceder al interior de la Santa Iglesia Catedral disfrazado de diablo mientras se daba una misa.
Its in Spanish, but the gist is this: A man was arrested in Ceuta today for attempting to enter a church dressed as a devil whilst mass was being said. The police say that they arrested him on a public order offence and that he put up no resistance.
 

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Here´s an amusing report from today´s Publico online edition:

Detenido en Ceuta por ir a misa disfrazado de diablo - Público.es

Los agentes de la Policía Local de Ceuta han denunciado a un hombre, cuya identidad no ha sido facilitada, cuando pretendía acceder al interior de la Santa Iglesia Catedral disfrazado de diablo mientras se daba una misa.
Its in Spanish, but the gist is this: A man was arrested in Ceuta today for attempting to enter a church dressed as a devil whilst mass was being said. The police say that they arrested him on a public order offence and that he put up no resistance.
 

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A detailed analysis of the Bankia disaster (in English), if you can bear it.

Interesting that defaulted loans to property developers are five times as much as defaulted mortgages. This is what happens when politicians run banks and put their wives and cousins on the board (with stipends of up to €500,000 a year), who then approve loan recommendations for dodgy building projects without question.

The bank that brought about a bailout | In English | EL PAÍS
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Front page news in El Periodico and other papers today
Sin derecho a la sanidad
Sin derecho a la sanidad

Un arquitecto en paro se quedará sin tarjeta sanitaria si no prueba que es pobre en virtud del decreto de Mato

Miércoles, 13 de junio - 00:30h.

Un arquitecto catalán de 28 años, Francesc Romero, vecino de Mataró (Maresme), sin contrato laboral que le permita cotizar como asegurado en el régimen de la Seguridad Social, ha sido informado de que a partir del próximo 1 de septiembre perderá el derecho a la asistencia pública que aún le facilita su tarjeta sanitaria, salvo si certifica que sus ingresos anuales son tan escasos que no superan un "límite reglamentario" aún por decidir. En este caso, mantendría su credencial.

No right to Medical Care
An unemployed architect will not have a social security card unless he can prove that he is poor because of the Mato decree.
A 28 year old Catalan architect, Francesc Romero from Mataró (Maresme), who does not have a work contract that allows him to contribute to the SS, has been informed that as from Sept 1st he will lose his right to the public health system, for which he still holds a card. Only if he can prove that his annual income does not excede a "regulated limit", that has yet to be stipulated, will he maintain his rights.

I heard on the radio that as he is over 26 he can not go on his mothers social security number.
 

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Front page news in El Periodico and other papers today
Sin derecho a la sanidad
Sin derecho a la sanidad

Un arquitecto en paro se quedará sin tarjeta sanitaria si no prueba que es pobre en virtud del decreto de Mato

Miércoles, 13 de junio - 00:30h.

Un arquitecto catalán de 28 años, Francesc Romero, vecino de Mataró (Maresme), sin contrato laboral que le permita cotizar como asegurado en el régimen de la Seguridad Social, ha sido informado de que a partir del próximo 1 de septiembre perderá el derecho a la asistencia pública que aún le facilita su tarjeta sanitaria, salvo si certifica que sus ingresos anuales son tan escasos que no superan un "límite reglamentario" aún por decidir. En este caso, mantendría su credencial.

No right to Medical Care
An unemployed architect will not have a social security card unless he can prove that he is poor because of the Mato decree.
A 28 year old Catalan architect, Francesc Romero from Mataró (Maresme), who does not have a work contract that allows him to contribute to the SS, has been informed that as from Sept 1st he will lose his right to the public health system, for which he still holds a card. Only if he can prove that his annual income does not excede a "regulated limit", that has yet to be stipulated, will he maintain his rights.

I heard on the radio that as he is over 26 he can not go on his mothers social security number.
So how will this work I wonder, if they don't take out health insurance? Will they still be able to use state facilities, but be given a bill?
 

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This is what happens when politicians run banks and put their wives and cousins on the board (with stipends of up to €500,000 a year), who then approve loan recommendations for dodgy building projects without question.
That's very unfair Alcalaina :( They always asked how much their cut was :D
 

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Front page news in El Periodico and other papers today
Sin derecho a la sanidad
Sin derecho a la sanidad

Un arquitecto en paro se quedará sin tarjeta sanitaria si no prueba que es pobre en virtud del decreto de Mato

Miércoles, 13 de junio - 00:30h.

Un arquitecto catalán de 28 años, Francesc Romero, vecino de Mataró (Maresme), sin contrato laboral que le permita cotizar como asegurado en el régimen de la Seguridad Social, ha sido informado de que a partir del próximo 1 de septiembre perderá el derecho a la asistencia pública que aún le facilita su tarjeta sanitaria, salvo si certifica que sus ingresos anuales son tan escasos que no superan un "límite reglamentario" aún por decidir. En este caso, mantendría su credencial.

No right to Medical Care
An unemployed architect will not have a social security card unless he can prove that he is poor because of the Mato decree.
A 28 year old Catalan architect, Francesc Romero from Mataró (Maresme), who does not have a work contract that allows him to contribute to the SS, has been informed that as from Sept 1st he will lose his right to the public health system, for which he still holds a card. Only if he can prove that his annual income does not excede a "regulated limit", that has yet to be stipulated, will he maintain his rights.

I heard on the radio that as he is over 26 he can not go on his mothers social security number.
That is awful.
As immigrants to Spain, we talk about what our rights are to the public health care system here, but we often forget that the same rules apply to Spanish citizens.
I think that those of us who come from the UK, where residence is the criteria for public health care, just cant get our heads around this.

This is a sad case, and I expect we will be hearing about plenty more of them in the coming months.
I would hazard a guess that citizens like Francesc Romero are falling foul of rules being enforced to stop health tourism, but IMHO it definitely isn't fair. So I hope that those who make the rules, and those who enforce them, are listening and will try to sort out this mess.
 

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That is awful.
As immigrants to Spain, we talk about what our rights are to the public health care system here, but we often forget that the same rules apply to Spanish citizens.
I think that those of us who come from the UK, where residence is the criteria for public health care, just cant get our heads around this.

This is a sad case, and I expect we will be hearing about plenty more of them in the coming months.
I would hazard a guess that citizens like Francesc Romero are falling foul of rules being enforced to stop health tourism, but IMHO it definitely isn't fair. So I hope that those who make the rules, and those who enforce them, are listening and will try to sort out this mess.
A roof over one's head and access to health and education regardless of income is a basic entitlement in any society that claims to be civilised.

Not only for the welfare of the individual and his/her family but for the sake of society - social cohesion - as a whole.
 

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A roof over one's head and access to health and education regardless of income is a basic entitlement in any society that claims to be civilised.

Not only for the welfare of the individual and his/her family but for the sake of society - social cohesion - as a whole.
Yep, that's what all the immigrants (both legal and illegal) to UK claim
 
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