[jarnot]

Both my wife and I are retired and we are considering a move to Cyprus. The only uptodate knowledge we have of the island has come from 'Cyprus - Lonely Planet' and we would appreciate any suggestions readers may have.
Rightly or wrongly, we wish to locate to a community where:
1. There is an Expat presence.
2. Away from the tourist traps.
3. Hopefully scenic.
4. Where we can access whatever cultural scene is available, ie music (classical or other), opera, theatre etc.

Based on our reading of Lonely Planet the following areas seem promising (in no particular order):
Larnaca & area
Pafos and area (not Kato Pafos, we think!)
Mesaoria Villages
Aramis Heights and Polis area
N Cyprus (suggestions re particular areas appreciated)

We would appreciate views and advice. Can anyone help please?
All replies appreciated.

 

[Veronica]

Both my wife and I are retired and we are considering a move to Cyprus. The only uptodate knowledge we have of the island has come from 'Cyprus - Lonely Planet' and we would appreciate any suggestions readers may have.
Rightly or wrongly, we wish to locate to a community where:
1. There is an Expat presence.
2. Away from the tourist traps.
3. Hopefully scenic.
4. Where we can access whatever cultural scene is available, ie music (classical or other), opera, theatre etc.

Based on our reading of Lonely Planet the following areas seem promising (in no particular order):
Larnaca & area
Pafos and area (not Kato Pafos, we think!)
Mesaoria Villages
Aramis Heights and Polis area
N Cyprus (suggestions re particular areas appreciated)

We would appreciate views and advice. Can anyone help please?
All replies appreciated.

Hi, welcome to the forum.
My first recommendation is that if you intend to purchase a property rather than rent Northern Cyprus is deifinitely NOT the place to go.
Read the latest rulings on the Orams versus Apostilides case andyou see why.
The appeal agaisnt earlier rulings went agaisnt the Orams' and they have no further leave to appeal the decision of the European courts. This means that they have to give back the land to its rightful owner, demolish their villa and compensate Mr. Apostilides.
Many many properties in the North will now be under dire threat.

As for the South of the island, the Paphos area and Larnaca area both have healthy expat communities in the surrounding villages away from the torusit areas, so it depends omn which of these areas you like the best.
Paphos is a lot greener than the Larnaca area and has slightly cooler summer temperatures and warmer winter temperatures than the Larnaca side.
Polis is still very quiet and completely dead in the winter but the scenery is stunning and once the motorway from paphos tio Polis goes in makingaccess to the airport easier it will become a lot more popular.

Kind regards
Veronica

 

[BabsM]

Hi Jarnot, welcome to this forum.

I would suggest that, from your list and requirements I would rate the areas in the following order
1) the Larnaca area (I would, I live here).
2) the Paphos area
5)The Polis Area
6)The Mesaoria plain/Northern Cyprus

I have deliberately missed no 3 and 4 out because I don't think you should exclude the Limassol and Nicosia areas. You might also like to consider the villages to the east of Larnaca and North of Agia Napa, such as Xylofagou, Liopetri, Avgorou, Frenaros and the town of Paralimni. A lot of work has been undertaken in this area to improve road links and the environment.

You will find others will put Paphos and Limassol higher than Larnaca and will claim that Larnaca is flat and not scenic but I can tell you, as I look out of my window at the hills and Stavrovouni, that that is rubbish. Some areas of the Larnaca district can be very scenic.

As I understand it, the Mesaoria villages fall in Northern Cyprus. I would avoid Northern Cyprus. I have heard of too many building scams and too many people have come a cropper when getting property built over there. In addition, the recent judgements with regard to the Orams who bought land in Northern Cyprus and had a nice villa built, only to discover that the land belonged to a Greek Cypriot and was being illegally occupied by the Turk that sold it to them. They have now been instructed to demolish the villa and give the land back to the Greek Cypriot. IMHO the judgements in the European, Cypriot and British courts are going to have an impact on property ownership and sales over the next few years and it would be best to wait and see what the impact is. Others will disagree with me but that is my personal opinion.

 

[Veronica]

Hi Jarnot, welcome to this forum.

As I understand it, the Mesaoria villages fall in Northern Cyprus. I would avoid Northern Cyprus. I have heard of too many building scams and too many people have come a cropper when getting property built over there. In addition, the recent judgements with regard to the Orams who bought land in Northern Cyprus and had a nice villa built, only to discover that the land belonged to a Greek Cypriot and was being illegally occupied by the Turk that sold it to them. They have now been instructed to demolish the villa and give the land back to the Greek Cypriot. IMHO the judgements in the European, Cypriot and British courts are going to have an impact on property ownership and sales over the next few years and it would be best to wait and see what the impact is. Others will disagree with me but that is my personal opinion.

I have been saying this for a long time Babs but some people have blinkers on and only look at how cheap property is in the North. They don't think about what will happen if the rightful owner of the land makes a claim agaisnt as in the orams' case. How cheap are these properties in the end if they have to be demolished and the land handed back to its owner.

 

[BabsM]

I have been saying this for a long time Babs but some people have blinkers on and only look at how cheap property is in the North. They don't think about what will happen if the rightful owner of the land makes a claim agaisnt as in the orams' case. How cheap are these properties in the end if they have to be demolished and the land handed back to its owner.

Exactly the way I see it!

 

[jarnot]

Hi, welcome to the forum.
My first recommendation is that if you intend to purchase a property rather than rent Northern Cyprus is deifinitely NOT the place to go.
Read the latest rulings on the Orams versus Apostilides case andyou see why.
The appeal agaisnt earlier rulings went agaisnt the Orams' and they have no further leave to appeal the decision of the European courts. This means that they have to give back the land to its rightful owner, demolish their villa and compensate Mr. Apostilides.
Many many properties in the North will now be under dire threat.

As for the South of the island, the Paphos area and Larnaca area both have healthy expat communities in the surrounding villages away from the torusit areas, so it depends omn which of these areas you like the best.
Paphos is a lot greener than the Larnaca area and has slightly cooler summer temperatures and warmer winter temperatures than the Larnaca side.
Polis is still very quiet and completely dead in the winter but the scenery is stunning and once the motorway from paphos tio Polis goes in makingaccess to the airport easier it will become a lot more popular.

Kind regards
Veronica

Hello Veronica,
Thanks for your informative response. Your info re. Polis and area was partic interesting. Do you include the Akamis Heights with Polis? Is there any date for the motorway?
We think that we will initially rent rather than buy. It will give us the opportunity to acclimatise and look around for that ideal spot.
Re. N Cyprus, Lonely Planet made us aware of the hazards of buying there and your info re. the Orams confirms our view that buying there is a dodgy proposition. Nevertheless we think it is probably worth a look. Kyrenia itself and the coastline to the east is probably too touristy. However, how about the area north of Lefkosia. We know of Bellapais and surely there are other villages of that ilk? One advantage might be the close proxinity to Lefkosia?
Do you have any information regarding the density of ex-pats population please. Are they settled in particular areas and are some parts of the island avoided perhaps? Is there any organised interaction between expat communities?
Finally, have you any thoughts on the cultural scene.
Sorry, to plague you with questions but you appear to be knowledgable about the island. Best regards.

 

[kimonas]

The best way to get an idea of the living conditions in the north is to visit one of their ex-pat fora - the fact that they are constantly being closed down, hacked in to, and in various other ways, interfered with is a strong indicator that they are in effect operating within an illegal state which is unrecognised in the rest of the world (except I think one of the ex-soviet Muslim stan countries). Practically everything done there, every transaction, every 'official' interaction usurps the de jure authority of the Republic of Cyprus and is technically illegal. Added to this is the problem of properties being built on stolen land. It may have fabulous scenery, very friendly people and be relatively cheap, but the prospects for continued interaction and a favourable settlement are bleak. The tribal animosity between people of Greek ancestry and Turkish ancestry cannot be overstated, and I for one doubt that the two sides will move any closer within the next couple of generations (if at all). I suspect Talat will lose the forthcoming election, the hardliners will takeover again, the 'borders' which have been opened up over the last few years will be hermetically sealed and the north will sink back into the abject poverty that it has grown accustomed to. Because it is a 'pirate' state and beyond the arm of interpol, it is also full of international criminals (including ex-pats). You will read a lot of propaganda from both sides and the whole issue is mired in confusion, half baked promises, bent history, huge and deep emotional scars and unhealed wounds on both sides. One thing is clear - living in the north would be regarded by almost all international commentators (and backed up my countless UN resolutions) as living in an illegal state. I would explore the option extremely carefully and it will be almost impossible to check out the legality of any property propositions - I certainly would not believe anything you are told in the north (see the Oram's case).

 

[jarnot]

Hi Jarnot, welcome to this forum.

I would suggest that, from your list and requirements I would rate the areas in the following order
1) the Larnaca area (I would, I live here).
2) the Paphos area
5)The Polis Area
6)The Mesaoria plain/Northern Cyprus

I have deliberately missed no 3 and 4 out because I don't think you should exclude the Limassol and Nicosia areas. You might also like to consider the villages to the east of Larnaca and North of Agia Napa, such as Xylofagou, Liopetri, Avgorou, Frenaros and the town of Paralimni. A lot of work has been undertaken in this area to improve road links and the environment.

You will find others will put Paphos and Limassol higher than Larnaca and will claim that Larnaca is flat and not scenic but I can tell you, as I look out of my window at the hills and Stavrovouni, that that is rubbish. Some areas of the Larnaca district can be very scenic.

As I understand it, the Mesaoria villages fall in Northern Cyprus. I would avoid Northern Cyprus. I have heard of too many building scams and too many people have come a cropper when getting property built over there. In addition, the recent judgements with regard to the Orams who bought land in Northern Cyprus and had a nice villa built, only to discover that the land belonged to a Greek Cypriot and was being illegally occupied by the Turk that sold it to them. They have now been instructed to demolish the villa and give the land back to the Greek Cypriot. IMHO the judgements in the European, Cypriot and British courts are going to have an impact on property ownership and sales over the next few years and it would be best to wait and see what the impact is. Others will disagree with me but that is my personal opinion.

Hello BabsM,
Thank you for your response. In particular your views on N. Cyprus which reflect the opinions of other contributors to this site.

I have found the area where you live. We will visit Cyprus in April to explore the island and our first port of call will be Larnaca. Thereafter we will look at other areas. Is there any particular area favoured by ex-Pats, ie do more live in Lefkosia than elsewhere etc? Should we decide Cyprus is the place for us, we will initially rent to nullify any future disappointment, either with Cyprus generally, or more likely with our initial area of choice. Hopefully, we will get it right first time which is why contributions from ex-Pats are so important.

We note that there is a Cyprus Symphony orchestra - and that they perform in Laranaca,( and likewise elsewhere on the island?) I don't think we could survive without a bit of classical enterainment. Is the island reasonably catered for in this regard?

We look forward to whatever tit-bits of info you and other ex-Pats can provide. Best regards

PS. 'Planet Earth' maps show the Mesaoria villages to be approx 20k south of Lefkosia. You probably know of the area by another name.

 

[kimonas]

Hello BabsM,

The island has a lively classical, jazz and traditional music scene (largely in Nicosia) but with outreach at festival times in other major cities and towns. My wife was a Musician in the Youth Symphony Orchestra (well still is) and has many friends in the Sate Orchestra - they are always very busy. Paphos too has an excellent outdoor amphitheatre and stages superb operas. A host of international stars also perform regularly on the island (e.g. Placido Domingo). Some of the most evocative concerts are held in the ancient amphitheatre of Kourion on the clifftop of the ruined city, with superb views of the sunset and excellent acoustics.

The Mesouria Plain is largely Occupied Territory as the ceasefire line of the 1974 war snakes across Nicosia (the last divided City in the world) and plunges down towards Larnaca virtually cutting off the extreme south east of the island (if it wasn't for the UK Base at Dekhalia) and along to and including the city of Famagusta (the modern part of which is now a ghost town).

There aren't many expats in Nicosia (unfortunate as it is by far the liveliest and most interesting city - in my opinion) and has the added advantage (at the moment) of being able to cross over into the occupied territory which is like going back in time. Nicosia has an ancient heart (walled City) which is currently being rennovated and a sprawling modern suburb. It is however (being in the Mesouria) unbearably hot in the summer with temperatures regularly in excess of 45 (nevr officially acknowledges of course otherwise H&S would kick in and no one would work!).

 

[AradippouTales]

Should we decide Cyprus is the place for us, we will initially rent to nullify any future disappointment, either with Cyprus generally, or more likely with our initial area of choice.

I think that is a very sensible choice.

We intended to rent for 6 months; in the end it was three years. Had we bought initially I suspect that we would have ended up in a different type of property and in a different location. We would, almost certainly, have bought a property comparable in size with our London place.

In the end we have something outside the larger towns and smaller than we would originally have considered. Having spent three years in a four bedroom rental we gave serious thought to whether it made sense to buy, maintain, heat, cool and clean bedrooms that were only used by visitors. Yes, we have a steady stream during the year but they can be accommodated elsewhere.

Mands

 

[Veronica]

Hello Veronica,
Thanks for your informative response. Your info re. Polis and area was partic interesting. Do you include the Akamis Heights with Polis? Is there any date for the motorway?
We think that we will initially rent rather than buy. It will give us the opportunity to acclimatise and look around for that ideal spot.
Re. N Cyprus, Lonely Planet made us aware of the hazards of buying there and your info re. the Orams confirms our view that buying there is a dodgy proposition. Nevertheless we think it is probably worth a look. Kyrenia itself and the coastline to the east is probably too touristy. However, how about the area north of Lefkosia. We know of Bellapais and surely there are other villages of that ilk? One advantage might be the close proxinity to Lefkosia?
Do you have any information regarding the density of ex-pats population please. Are they settled in particular areas and are some parts of the island avoided perhaps? Is there any organised interaction between expat communities?
Finally, have you any thoughts on the cultural scene.
Sorry, to plague you with questions but you appear to be knowledgable about the island. Best regards.

Hi Jarnot,
The date for the motorway keeps getting put back so as things stand no one really knows when it is going to happen. Every year they say we will start it next January
Akamas Heights is in the Polis area.
I cant give you any information about the villages North of the Border as I have only been up there once since the split. I used to go regularly the first time I lived in Cyprus which was before the split. Things have changed a lot since then.
Density of ex-pats in the south is mainly in the Paphos and Larnaca areas and villages outside Limassol with some in Nicosia(Lefkosia) though not as many as other areas.
I wouls still advise very strongly agaisnt the North but of course that is your decision.
Wherever you do decide it is certainly wise to rent initially while you find your feet and get to know the areas you like.

Regards
Veronica