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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've spent the last hour reading through the very informative posts on here so thank you first of all to everyone who has contributed! I'm sorry if some of my questions are a slight repetition but I can't find an exact replica of my situation so have decided to start from scratch!

My boyfriend and I (EU Nationals) left the UK in March and spent the last six months travelling around France, living off his inheritance money from his Father's death a year previously. We have decided to stay in France until June 2014 at least, to try and decide if we'd like to settle here permanently. It's not set in stone yet as there's always the chance that we'll move back to the UK. He is in the process of setting up rental properties in the UK to provide us with some income (although we've not yet worked out where he'll pay tax) and I am an online PA and copywriter, meaning that I work from home, but for people in England, and get paid into my UK bank account. We are also trying for a baby.

My questions are therefore:

1. Do we still need to register with the town hall here if we're not working for a French company?

2. If we're not decided about whether or not we're going to stay, can we continue to use our EHIC cards for medical purposes and try for reimbursements?

3. If not, and from what I can gather that means registering with the CPAM, can we do that without having jobs here? We haven't applied for our S1 forms get because there seems no point if we don't stay.

4. Is there an option to just take out private medical insurance here, without actually registering for a carte vitale, to cover us until June? This is especially of concern to me in case I fall pregnant.

5. If needed, once registered with a carte vitale, how does that impact on receiving medical treatment in the UK. Does it 'de-register' us from the NHS system?

I'm keen to make sure we're being legal but also keen to avoid unnecessary (French) administration where possible!!

Thank you so much in advance,

Louise
 

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If you are working from home in France you need to be registered here, with a siret number, paying cotisations and tax here. To work here outside the system is illegal, it makes no difference what country your clients are in, it's where you are that counts. You will then get your carte vitale via your cotisations. You aren't entitled toi an s1 if you are working in France. Suggest you look into the auto entrepreneur régime.
 

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So far, I think, EuroT, they're in the clear with the authorities because they haven't become fiscally resident in France (no fixed abode). Although "working from home", wherever the itinerant home may be, might be sailing a bit close to the wind regarding proper business registration, as much as I can appreciate the difficulties for them, if they're on the move all the time, to "plump" for a Mairie and register an AE there.

However, @ Louised, if you do decide to settle in France, whether rented or purchased, you will have to declare your residency status to both the UK IR and to the French Fisc., and you will become liable for tax here, irrespective of where it's earned - & that's for both of you - France taxes the household, not the individual. And, as EuroT says, you will have to register yourself as a business entity of some kind, pay the "cotisations" and enter the French system that way, with, potentially, your husband as your dependant for healthcare coverage, after the set-up period, which is about 3 months or so I think. Note: that's for your business, not for the UK property letting, which is dealt with differently by the Fisc., although the income from it will still have to be declared.

Do not risk not doing things properly, as painful as they may be. Someone will shop you and the penalties can be severe.

hils
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you both very much for clearing up these questions! I think registering as an AE seems the route to go down then, neither of us is working YET so we've not broken any laws so far :)

Is registering as an AE the same as registering at the town hall? I'm planning a trip to our local one in any case (Biarritz) next week.
 

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If you are not married or PACS'ed then you will not be classed as a household for tax purposes and each of you will require your own healthcare cover.
 

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If you are not married or PACS'ed then you will not be classed as a household for tax purposes and each of you will require your own healthcare cover.
Good point, Tina. I missed that ....
 

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I see you've gotten most of the answers you need, but just to make sure your original questions are answered:

My questions are therefore:

1. Do we still need to register with the town hall here if we're not working for a French company?
There is no need to register at the town hall in France. Things work differently here - if and when you sign a residential lease, they'll catch up with you for the taxe d'habitat (which is the property tax for renters).
2. If we're not decided about whether or not we're going to stay, can we continue to use our EHIC cards for medical purposes and try for reimbursements?
EHIC cards are only good for "urgent" care, not for routine medical treatment.
3. If not, and from what I can gather that means registering with the CPAM, can we do that without having jobs here? We haven't applied for our S1 forms get because there seems no point if we don't stay.
If you were enrolled in and paid up in the NHS to the date that you left the UK (as a resident), you should be able to get an S-1 that will give you interim coverage in France while you are looking for work. Once you get a job (or start working as an AE), you will be registered in the French system (CPAM) and then be subject to its provisions. Just as an aside, CPAM only covers about 70% of most medical costs - most people have a mutuelle to provide top-up for the portion that the sécu doesn't reimburse. But payment for a mutuelle is on a per-person basis, not a function of your earnings.

4. Is there an option to just take out private medical insurance here, without actually registering for a carte vitale, to cover us until June? This is especially of concern to me in case I fall pregnant.
Once you are resident in France, it's required that you have private medical insurance if you are not working or don't have access to the national system.
5. If needed, once registered with a carte vitale, how does that impact on receiving medical treatment in the UK. Does it 'de-register' us from the NHS system?
When you leave the UK (as a resident) to take up residence elsewhere, you should notify the UK tax authority (so that you aren't taxed in both the UK and France). I assume this is what "de-registers" you with the NHS. If you visit the UK, you should get an EHIC from the CPAM - and again, you'll be eligible for "urgent" care only while visiting the old country.

Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thank you all so much for answering questions I'm sure you've answered a lot before! It's a lot clearer in my head now but I do have a couple of final questions.

If we don't need to register at the town hall at all, do we still need to obtain a carte de sejour? Some threads say it's not needed for EU nationals but others seem to indicate that it's a useful thing to have as proof of ID.

We ARE renting an apartment but just on a short term lease, so I have a rental contract as such. Does that change the need to register at the Marie? Sorry if I'm being particularly dense...

To sum up, I can start the registration as an AE and in the meantime inform the UK that I'm no longer resident there so I don't pay tax twice. The AE registration will mean that I then start paying cotisations and am eligible for applying for my carte vitale, which I need an S1 for, that can be obtained from the UK. During the wait, my S1 or EHIC can be used for emergency medical cover. Once I have my carte vitale, I can look at private insurance as a 'top-up' to the CPAM cover. Is that right? *crossesfingers*
 

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Thank you all so much for answering questions I'm sure you've answered a lot before! It's a lot clearer in my head now but I do have a couple of final questions.

If we don't need to register at the town hall at all, do we still need to obtain a carte de sejour? Some threads say it's not needed for EU nationals but others seem to indicate that it's a useful thing to have as proof of ID.

We ARE renting an apartment but just on a short term lease, so I have a rental contract as such. Does that change the need to register at the Marie? Sorry if I'm being particularly dense...

To sum up, I can start the registration as an AE and in the meantime inform the UK that I'm no longer resident there so I don't pay tax twice. The AE registration will mean that I then start paying cotisations and am eligible for applying for my carte vitale, which I need an S1 for, that can be obtained from the UK. During the wait, my S1 or EHIC can be used for emergency medical cover. Once I have my carte vitale, I can look at private insurance as a 'top-up' to the CPAM cover. Is that right? *crossesfingers*
You are almost there . . .
1 you do not need a carte de sejour
2 you do not need to register at the Mairie
3 Both you and your boyfriend should apply for the S1 form from the Overseas Healthcare team Phone 0191 218 1999 (Monday to Friday 8am–5pm). You will need a form for each of you as you are not married. The S1 forms must be registered with CPAM to obtain your carte vitale and social security number.
4 At the moment you are covered for ANY medical treatment by your EHIC card - not just emergencies.
5 Once you have set up your Autoentrepreneur business your S1 will no longer be valid and you must obtain your healthcare via RSI/RAM. It may be possible to register your boyfriend as your dependent (AYANT DROIT) for healthcare but this is not always straightforward and they may refuse.
6 you can use form P85 to inform HMRC that you are no longer UK resident

Links that may help

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/p85.pdf

Moving abroad - Healthcare abroad - NHS Choices

Portail officiel des auto-entrepreneurs


good luck !
 

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I would check this recent press release by the EU on the subject of the EHIC:
EUROPA - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - European Health Insurance Card: two out of five Europeans carry one

Particularly the following comments:

Latest figures show that over 190 million people hold a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC), allowing them to get emergency healthcare and so enjoy worry-free holidays when travelling within the European Union, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Iceland.

The EHIC confirms that a person is entitled to receive emergency treatment in the host country's public healthcare system on the same terms and at the same cost as nationals of that country.
Check the AE portal for information on exactly when your French health coverage kicks in: Portail officiel des auto-entrepreneurs From all reports, it can take "a few" months to finalize your CPAM registration and actually get your Carte Vitale. And unless you are married or PACS'd, the coverage of your boyfriend is not assured.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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I would check this recent press release by the EU on the subject of the EHIC:
EUROPA - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - European Health Insurance Card: two out of five Europeans carry one

. . .

Cheers,
Bev
Interesting link from the Europa website - the quote seems to contradict what is on the UK NHS website which implies a broader use of the card, i.e. for existing medical conditions - info here

Apply for a free EHIC card - Healthcare abroad - NHS Choices

Quote: "Your EHIC lets you get state healthcare at a reduced cost or sometimes for free. It will cover you for treatment that is needed to allow you to continue your stay until your planned return. It also covers you for treatment of pre-existing medical conditions and for routine maternity care, as long as you're not going abroad to give birth."
 

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A small addition - I was concerned that I had misunderstood the use of the EHIC so checked further on the EUROPA website to make sure the rules hadn't recently changed. There is this entry in the EHIC FAQs

Quote:
"If I have a chronic medical condition for which I have to see the doctor regularly and want to go to another Member State for a temporary stay, will the European Health Insurance Card cover me for medical treatment there?


Yes, if you have a chronic medical condition (for example, in cases of asthma, diabetes, or cancer) you are entitled, during your temporary stay in another Member State, to treatment that is considered necessary, taking into account your medical condition. However, if your medical condition means that you need special medical surveillance, and in particular the use of special techniques or equipment (e.g. dialysis treatment), you may wish to organise your stay in advance to make sure that you will have access to the equipment or treatment you require. You can do this by contacting the local specialist medical unit in the country you will be visiting before you leave home."

I guess the difference between emergency, urgent & necessary treatment can sometimes be difficult to interpret in multiple languages.
 

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Unlike the NHS which administers healthcare for everybody who is in the UK system, the French healthcare system consists of a number of different funds or 'caisses' and each of them administers a different category, according to profession/employment status etc. So for instance there is a caisse that looks after farmers' healthcare, another caisse that looks after self-employed people, and another one called CPAM, which is probably the largest, that basically administers healthcare for everybody who doesn't come under a specific caisse by virtue of their profession. CPAM deals with employed people, retired people, immigrants who have S1s and visitors who need treatment on their EHICS. But if you are running a business you would not come under CPAM, you would pay your cotisations to RSI which is the Regime Sociale des Indépendants, and it would be RAM who issue your Carte Vitale.

I think that's roughly right :)
 

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Well well!

I never stop learning about France in this forum.

Thank you Etrashy, very clear and helpful.

DejW

Unlike the NHS which administers healthcare for everybody who is in the UK system, the French healthcare system consists of a number of different funds or 'caisses' and each of them administers a different category, according to profession/employment status etc. So for instance there is a caisse that looks after farmers' healthcare, another caisse that looks after self-employed people, and another one called CPAM, which is probably the largest, that basically administers healthcare for everybody who doesn't come under a specific caisse by virtue of their profession. CPAM deals with employed people, retired people, immigrants who have S1s and visitors who need treatment on their EHICS. But if you are running a business you would not come under CPAM, you would pay your cotisations to RSI which is the Regime Sociale des Indépendants, and it would be RAM who issue your Carte Vitale.

I think that's roughly right :)
 
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