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Hi

First time to post. Apologies if this is covered elsewhere.
Apologies also for asking so many questions, but any guidance will be gratefully received.
I am writing this in a state of disbelief, high stress and growing paranoia.

My spouse and I are EU citizens, but long term permanent residents of Australia.
We love life here, both work and are raising little Aussies.
My spouse is a US citizen. I am not.
Spouse left USA as a child, worked there briefly as a student, visited a couple of times but not for a while.
Spouse has requested a new US passport as we want to visit the US on a long anticipated family holiday. Renewal form includes name, address, employer, SSN.
Spouse is unaware of need to file US taxes, something I am only just learning about.
It stuns me.

Immediate worry:
1) What if IRS reach out to us before we reach to them?
2) Can spouse be arrested at entry, exit or during US stay?
3) Can spouse be refused a passport? (I guess we will know soon)
4) Can spouse be refused entry to US?
5) Will passport renewal trigger any of the above?
6) Holiday still some months away. I'd prefer not to break the news until I have researched further, preferably after the holiday, as I don't want to ruin it. Is that a risky strategy to wait so long?


Superannuation
5) Can anyone point me to a digestible discussion of Super?
6) Would spouse be taxed on growth of super since day 1 or just last three years? (I have read that you can file for the previous three years)
7) Is spouse liable for tax on contributions since day or just last three years?
8) Government and personal contributions are taxed at 15%. Is spouse liable for tax on contributions at US rate-15%?

Next worries
9) On filing, is US govt likely to seek payment of taxes owing since day one, or only tax for last three years ? From what I can tell, Australia has higher income taxes than the US, so possibly no tax owing on salary. How can I tell?
10) We jointly own Australian shares. Income is taxed, but growth is not until shares are sold. Does that differ in US tax law?
11) A couple of years ago we took out a sizeable loan to purchased a managed portfolio. Can anybody point me to a discussion on such investments please?
12) Finally, spouse has US shares held in the US. A W8BEN form has just arrived. I'm guessing it would be suicidal to show US citizenship on this form before sorting out how we get complaint with US tax law?

Ok, thank you for anyone who has made it this far and any guidance will be most gratefully received.
 

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No need to panic, but you should tell your wife about it, since she's the USC.

Many USCs living outside the US have been shocked to learn that under US law they're required to file US tax returns every year. The IRS has limited powers of enforcement in other people's countries, fortunately. Your wife can and should take time to get her head round what's required, and decide how best to go about it. Very likely she'll end up owing little or no tax.

Definitely your wife should not lie about her US citizenship on the W-8BEN form. See the bit at the bottom where it mentions "on penalty of perjury"? She'll need to sign a W-9 form, which is for US citizens.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Iota.
We will not provide false documentation. I could have worded that better. My question there was if spouse fills in the form accurately, with USC details and submits the form without being tax compliant will that create an issue? I think the answer will be yes.

My first concern is that we can travel to the USA and not be arrested before we start our compliance, which is something I want to do after our travels?!

My second concern is superannuation, which is our way of having a comfortable retirement.

Again, thank you for taking the time to answer.
 

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Thanks Iota.
We will not provide false documentation. I could have worded that better. My question there was if spouse fills in the form accurately, with USC details and submits the form without being tax compliant will that create an issue? I think the answer will be yes.
Your spouse shouldn't sign a W8-BEN because that's a form for non-US-citizens. Your spouse needs to contact the entity that sent the form, and explain about being a USC and only just finding out about the US tax liability. The entity will probably send out a W-9 and perhaps a few other forms

My first concern is that we can travel to the USA and not be arrested before we start our compliance, which is something I want to do after our travels?!
There's no particular rush about complying though I must admit that if it was me I'd want to get my head round it and work out my plan before travelling to the US with my possibly-USC children. It may be necessary to get them US passports. Biological children of a USC may be "deemed" to have been born with US citizenship, and USCs can't enter the US except on a US passport.

My second concern is superannuation, which is our way of having a comfortable retirement.
I'll leave that to someone who's familiar with it. Good luck.
 

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OK, first of all - don't panic. Yeah, your spouse should probably do something about the situation, but there are a number of options and there is no particular urgency to taking any decisions right away.

Immediate worry:
1) What if IRS reach out to us before we reach to them?
2) Can spouse be arrested at entry, exit or during US stay?
3) Can spouse be refused a passport? (I guess we will know soon)
4) Can spouse be refused entry to US?
5) Will passport renewal trigger any of the above?
6) Holiday still some months away. I'd prefer not to break the news until I have researched further, preferably after the holiday, as I don't want to ruin it. Is that a risky strategy to wait so long?
S/he is in the same situation as thousands, possibly millions of "accidental Americans" living all around the world. There are loads of overt tax evaders and tax cheats who have priority when it comes to the IRS interest and time and efforts. Basically, the IRS is unlikely to even know that your spouse exists, never mind whether or not s/he actually "should" have been filing all these years. S/he will not be stopped at entry or during a US stay. S/he can only be refused a passport if there is a registered judgment against her/him in the amount of $50,000 or more. (Believe me, if there were, s/he would be aware of it.) The passport renewal should not trigger anything in the tax area. Just remember although all US citizens are subject to US taxation, there are many legitimate reasons any particular US citizen may well not have to file a return in any given year.

Superannuation
5) Can anyone point me to a digestible discussion of Super?
6) Would spouse be taxed on growth of super since day 1 or just last three years? (I have read that you can file for the previous three years)
7) Is spouse liable for tax on contributions since day or just last three years?
8) Government and personal contributions are taxed at 15%. Is spouse liable for tax on contributions at US rate-15%?

Next worries
9) On filing, is US govt likely to seek payment of taxes owing since day one, or only tax for last three years ? From what I can tell, Australia has higher income taxes than the US, so possibly no tax owing on salary. How can I tell?
10) We jointly own Australian shares. Income is taxed, but growth is not until shares are sold. Does that differ in US tax law?
11) A couple of years ago we took out a sizeable loan to purchased a managed portfolio. Can anybody point me to a discussion on such investments please?
12) Finally, spouse has been awarded US shares held in the US. A W8BEN form has just arrived. I'm guessing it would be suicidal to show US citizenship on this form before sorting out how we get complaint with US tax law?
I leave you to other to cope with Australian superannuation. It's an area where there is no "authoritative" guidance. But read on for more information.

On your next worries - there is a program called the Streamlined Compliance procedure (or program). Basically, you file current year plus three back years and, assuming you owe little or no tax for that period, you're absolved of liability for all prior years. Of course at that point, you're on the radar and probably ought to keep filing going forward (at least for those years that you have to file). If spouse works, there is the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion - i.e. you don't pay US taxes on up to $100K or so of "earned income" each year. Earned income = salary and salary like earnings. For "unearned income" (i.e. investments and such) there is the Foreign Tax Credit, where you can offset any US tax liability with the income tax paid to a foreign government (i.e. Australia). This is why it's very likely that your spouse owes little or no US income tax.

Owning shares works pretty much the same whether the shares are Australian or American. It only gets really complicated if a US citizen owns 10% or more of "certain foreign corporations." (What they mean by "certain" is a whole other ball of wax.) Owning US shares should pose no problems and it's here where your spouse absolutely should admit to US citizenship, and fill out a W-9 rather than the W8BEN. OK, income from the shares will be reported to the IRS against their SSN - but as a US citizen, they can receive the income without having withholding of taxes (or can specify the level of withholding, in many cases). As a "non-US person" most brokers and agents will (or must) withhold a flat 30% of all income paid. So here it's actually to your spouse's advantage to 'fess up.

So, enjoy your holiday in the US. On the issue of children, just be aware that a US citizen cannot pass on US citizenship to their children unless they lived for a time (I think it's at least 2 years) in the US after the age of 14. Again, there are LOTS of US citizens residing abroad who cannot pass on citizenship to their children.

Net-net your spouse needs to decide what s/he wants to do about the situation, but it's not something they have to do immediately (or even before this vacation). Streamlined compliance is probably the most logical and easiest route. But there are other approaches we can discuss and your spouse can consider.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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First off, DON'T PANIC!

Immediate worries:
1) Won't happen.
2) No.
3) No.
4) No.
5) No.
6) I don't want to get into relationship counseling but that strikes me as being a really bad idea. Spouse should be made aware immediately, and be part of all decisions.

Superannuation:
It's Australian and I know nothing about it, being Canadian, but others do. You can find them here or fixthetaxtreaty dot org.

Next worries
9) Run a test return to see if you owe anything. Simple if it's just basic income, more complex with investments.
10) No idea.
11) No idea.
12) Your spouse cannot sign a W8 if they are a US citizen (well they can if they don't mind perjury but in this case, given that there are US shares involved, not a good idea). I have no idea whether signing a W9 will trigger any sort of investigation. Remember there are lots of US citizens with low income who are not required to file tax returns. Just because you own an asset or have a bank balance doesn't mean you owe anything or need to be filing. The IRS knows nothing about your spouse, has no income data, so can't make assumptions about what is likely owed or not owed.

The good news:

There's no great rush to deal with any of this, the vast majority of US citizens overseas are not compliant with US taxes and the IRS will never find them.

Your spouse will not be denied a US passport, denied entry, or arrested upon arrival. Your tax status will have zero impact on your visit to the US. Submitting a passport application will not cause the IRS to investigate anything. Your travel plans are no reason to make rash decisions about the tax situation.

You can and should explore the option of remaining non-compliant before you take steps to file any US tax forms. That might require getting rid of those US shares and ensuring that you do not invest directly in the US, but otherwise it's often the best strategy. It just depends on (1) are the Australian banks likely to notice or care about a US birthplace - in which case things can be sometimes be done in the name of the non-US spouse - and (2) whether you're likely to care that the US might receive FATCA data if you are identified. The IRS has very limited ability to collect taxes and penalties outside it's own borders, so even if they know a few things about your bank balances, there's nothing much they can do with the information except send out toothless, plaintive letters. (Though be careful here if you are not Australian citizens, because the government may not give you the same level of protection.)

Your spouse might also choose to renounce US citizenship, swiftly, to make this problem go away. It costs US$2350 and while technically one is supposed to file 5 years tax returns upon exit (plus a few other conditions) many don't bother.

The bad news

You need to investigate whether your children are determined to have inherited US citizenship. From the description you've given, that might be the case (the US parent must have lived 5 years in the US, 2 of which after age 14). If you haven't registered the births with the US, good, that will keep them off the radar. With no US birthplace they will have no tax or banking problems later in life.

However, this does raise questions about the upcoming trip. You have three options if the kids are US citizens:

1) Spouse obtains US passport, children do not. Probably fine but be prepared for the possibility that US customs will tell you that the children need them too. They won't get into the fine points of citizenship law and won't turn you around. But you might get a lecture. (If the kids aren't US citizens, then you can at least quote the relevant rule.)

2) Spouse does not get US passport, you all go as EU and/or Australian. Likely not a problem, but then as a Canadian I don't need to deal with the ESTA waiver business and am not sure what gets asked on those forms. Spouse should be prepared for possibility that customs will notice the US birthplace and tell them to get a new passport, but it's not that likely.

3) Get US passports for the kids as well. This is "safest" in the short term but may require extra time to document their citizenship, and it puts them on the US radar, though without the US birthplace they should more easily avoid US taxes later in life.

I have a US birthplace and always travel on my Canadian passport, on principle. Only got in minor trouble for it once. My daughter is a US citizen but born in Europe, only travels on a Canadian passport, we've had no issues flying together. But again it might be easier from Canada.

The other bit of bad news is that you have US shares, which is what caused the W8. If you want to remain non-compliant (a wise strategy if you plan on remaining in Australia) it's best if you have no financial ties to the US. So possibly get rid of them.
 

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Let me just add a couple of things to Nononymous' reply:

I've heard more and more accounts of people with US birthplaces getting pulled aside on entry to the US if they're attempting to enter on another passport. Though it seems to be a hit or miss proposition these days. As long as the spouse has applied to renew their US passport, it's probably best to travel on that to the US. If any question is raised about the kids, as long as they don't have a US birthplace, the correct answer is simply: I left the US as a child (or I left the US when I was 10 years old, or at whatever age). Don't offer any further information - though don't lie if asked something directly. The Immigration people know what the rules are and that fact that a person left the US before the age of 14 should resolve the "issue" of the kids' nationality.

The question of what to do with the US shares depends quite a bit on a number of factors. But no one is going to track you down based on an honestly filled out W9 form. The W8BEN or W9 form never goes to the IRS. It's only a form the bank or brokerage may use to collect the information they are supposed to have on file. Many banks and brokerages use their own form. What a W9 form (or equivalent) will do is allow the bank or brokerage to generate a 1099 form, which gives the IRS AND the account holder a record of what income is being reported to the IRS. If/when you go for compliance, this is a handy document to have (since they actually tell you which line of the tax forms the various numbers go on).

There are other factors to consider in the matter of whether or how your spouse wants to comply. But remember that the IRS is desperately under staffed and under funded. Unless you are evading large amounts of US income tax, chances are they simply will file your returns away and check off the fact that you have filed. Or, never notice that you didn't file (as long as the 1099s they receive for your US source income don't exceed a level where you "might" owe a significant amount of taxes).
Cheers,
Bev
 

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One other point:

Be very skeptical and wary of professional advice, from lawyers, accountants and tax preparation firms. A few are scaremongers, pure and simple. But the most well-intentioned still have an institutional bias (or professional obligation) to follow the letter of the law, even when it's not in your best interest. And in some cases the interpretation of IRS rules for overseas taxpayers is pretty vague and fluid, so even professionals don't really know what they're talking about. Also they can be expensive. Sadly, you're best off educating yourself and making your own decisions.

There are some horror stories out there of individuals panicking and receiving bad advice, particularly around the crap "amnesty" programs five years ago (not streamlined, but the predecessors). A few older folks were absolutely cleaned out, due to idiots urging them into "voluntary" compliance programs with mandatory penalties, plus of course the legal and accounting fees.

In the long term, you are probably far better off remaining non-compliant, particularly if you think you will earn capital gains in excess of US$500k on the eventual sale of a home.
 

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Let me just add a couple of things to Nononymous' reply:

I've heard more and more accounts of people with US birthplaces getting pulled aside on entry to the US if they're attempting to enter on another passport. Though it seems to be a hit or miss proposition these days. As long as the spouse has applied to renew their US passport, it's probably best to travel on that to the US. If any question is raised about the kids, as long as they don't have a US birthplace, the correct answer is simply: I left the US as a child (or I left the US when I was 10 years old, or at whatever age). Don't offer any further information - though don't lie if asked something directly. The Immigration people know what the rules are and that fact that a person left the US before the age of 14 should resolve the "issue" of the kids' nationality.

The question of what to do with the US shares depends quite a bit on a number of factors. But no one is going to track you down based on an honestly filled out W9 form. The W8BEN or W9 form never goes to the IRS. It's only a form the bank or brokerage may use to collect the information they are supposed to have on file. Many banks and brokerages use their own form. What a W9 form (or equivalent) will do is allow the bank or brokerage to generate a 1099 form, which gives the IRS AND the account holder a record of what income is being reported to the IRS. If/when you go for compliance, this is a handy document to have (since they actually tell you which line of the tax forms the various numbers go on).

There are other factors to consider in the matter of whether or how your spouse wants to comply. But remember that the IRS is desperately under staffed and under funded. Unless you are evading large amounts of US income tax, chances are they simply will file your returns away and check off the fact that you have filed. Or, never notice that you didn't file (as long as the 1099s they receive for your US source income don't exceed a level where you "might" owe a significant amount of taxes).
Cheers,
Bev
Fair point about the passport. I expect that will get worse in the future. That's why even non-compliant old me renewed the thing a few years ago (from a temporary address in a neutral third country, just to be sly) and keep it in a back pocket on those rare occasions when I travel to the US.

As for the shares, probably not a big deal, but I make the general point that if you plan on being non-compliant, it's good practice not to have any US assets. It's not so much that they could generate a 1099, but in the (very unlikely) event that the IRS did somehow decide that you owed it some money, those US assets are the only thing it's able to seize.
 

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Hi
Superannuation
5) Can anyone point me to a digestible discussion of Super?
6) Would spouse be taxed on growth of super since day 1 or just last three years? (I have read that you can file for the previous three years)
7) Is spouse liable for tax on contributions since day or just last three years?
8) Government and personal contributions are taxed at 15%. Is spouse liable for tax on contributions at US rate-15%?
I will try to cover all this off... with a bit of a brain dump...

For starters, no one knows definitively how the IRS will treat Australian Superannuation. There is basically no guidance for the IRS in the form of regulation, revenue rulings etc apart from a couple private letter rulings that indicate that a superannuation fund is a trust. Those PLR were made for the trusts itself, but the rulings did not venture towards what that meant for the beneficiary of those trusts or the treatment of employer contributions, salary sacrifice or distribution from the trust.

So in many ways, unfortunately you are on your own.

There has been a US Freedom of Information Request that seems to suggest that IRS is leaning towards treating it under Section 402(b) - an unqualified deferred compensation - an employees trust.

So starting with that position ...

Under a 402(b) interpretation, employer contributions would be treated as income at the time the contribution was received by the trust because it is basically vested at that point. Unless you are considered a highly remunerated individual, that is the end of it for the specific tax year. The Highly remunerated rules are geared against you because any Australian is excluded from the calculation.. but If you are earning over ~120K USD happy to share my thoughts on that in a separate response...

Earnings under 402(b) are explicitly excluded from earned income. so you will not be able to to exclude employer contributions on form 2555. Further, because you are not personally liable for the contributions tax, neither can you claim a tax credit for the contributions tax either.

If your super plus any other income is less than your exclusions then you can just treat your super as income and exclude it....

Because of this treatment.. it may actually be worthwhile revoking the foreign earned income exclusion and taking a foreign tax credit instead. For me at least, Australian income tax rates are high enough that there are sufficient tax credits available to be able to offset the fact that no Australian tax is due on employer contributions.

But... (and there is always a but)...

If you have a Self Managed Super Fund, then you are clearly the owner and grantor of the trust, because Australian tax law requires you to be a trustee. The IRS hates foreign trusts, so grantor trusts rules mean that you have to treat both contributions and growth as income... completely defeating the purpose of super...

ok.. that is the perhaps prudent approach.. if you have a bog standard industry type fund and not a master trust or SMSF.. however.....

There are is an argument that suggests that under the Superannuation Administration and Supervision Acts, that in fact it is the ATO which is the owner of the trust. Because under the Supervision Act, if an employer fails to make a contribution, the debt is not owed to the employer but to the ATO.

Personally I find that position compelling, but personally I am not that game. (yet)
 

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Immediate worry:
1) What if IRS reach out to us before we reach to them?
2) Can spouse be arrested at entry, exit or during US stay?
3) Can spouse be refused a passport? (I guess we will know soon)
4) Can spouse be refused entry to US?
5) Will passport renewal trigger any of the above?
6) Holiday still some months away. I'd prefer not to break the news until I have researched further, preferably after the holiday, as I don't want to ruin it. Is that a risky strategy to wait so long?
1. chances are that are extremely slim, unless you have millions stashed away if a Swiss bank account. There are lots of reasons a US citizen living abroad would not file...

2. The IRS cannot stop entry. The INS cannot stop entry. The IRS can flag exit.. but that would only occur if you owe more than $50,000 in tax. Unless there is an existing arrest warrant ... not going to happen.

3. Yes a Passport can be refused. But generally only if the consulate has grounds to believe you are not a US citizen.

4. Fundamentally, if you are a US citizen, the US cannot prevent your re-entry. To do so would in effect be the US repudiating your US citizenship. You can be fined for entering the US without a US passport, but that is all. TThe can issue other sorts of travel documents thought.

5. I really doubt it. All a foreign passport renewal does, is provide a valid current address. Because at least in Australia, they generally post it out. There is nothing to indicate that is actually shared with the IRS.
 

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Just a brief addendum to what you've posted here. On number 3, there is apparently new legislation, either pending or possibly passed by now, whereby you can be refused a US passport (or renewal of a US passport) if (as in #2) there is an adjudication against you of at least $50,000 in outstanding taxes due. Like #2, you would certainly know about this - basically you would have had to have been audited and assessed, with a warrant or other civil document on file for the tax delinquency.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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My spouse and I are EU citizens, but long term permanent residents of Australia.
We love life here, both work and are raising little Aussies.
My spouse is a US citizen. I am not.
Spouse left USA as a child, worked there briefly as a student, visited a couple of times but not for a while.
If your spouse accumulated enough US Social Security credits while working in the US, s/he might be able to claim a small SS retirement pension under the US-Totalization Treaty. (https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-de...en-australia-and-the-united-states-of-america)

Exploring this possibility will not put your spouse at risk from the IRS. I claimed under the UK Totalization Treaty at the same time I was renouncing - no problem at all and I now receive a nice little pension every month like clockwork. I've more than been repaid the $2350 the State Dept charged me to renounce. ;)


Spouse has requested a new US passport as we want to visit the US on a long anticipated family holiday. Renewal form includes name, address, employer, SSN.
Spouse is unaware of need to file US taxes, something I am only just learning about.
It stuns me.

6) Holiday still some months away. I'd prefer not to break the news until I have researched further, preferably after the holiday, as I don't want to ruin it. Is that a risky strategy to wait so long?
That's not really a strategy is it.

It would be useful if you can find out whether or not the children will be able to get through ESTA (the visa-that-will-not-speak-its-name which the US requires non-USCs from visa-"waiver" countries to use). If yes, then the children should be able to enter with you, on non-US passports, while your spouse goes through the USC line on US passport.

It all depends how many questions the ESTA application process asks about the children's parents. It's all too possible that the questionnaire may ask not only "is the child a USC" but also "is either parent a USC". At which point, if a "yes" answer is received, it may stop the automatic process and send the application down a different path to be handled manually, and that might take some time. (That's just my guess - I've never been through the ESTA process.)

You might want to contact the group at Let's Fix the Australia/US Tax Treaty! – The Australia/US tax treaty needs urgent revision to prevent double taxation

The site is run by US/Aussies who are trying hard to get some clarity on Super and other problems. There may be someone there who's been through ESTA and can tell you whether your children would be able to get through the automated procedure.
 

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Thank you.
Thank you all sincerely for taking the time to answer my many questions.
I am in a calmer state now.
I can see a path ahead, not an easy one, but a way forward nonetheless.

Our kids, btw, do not qualify as US citizens.
Spouse is not self employed, never sold any property, and has straightforward tax arrangements, possibly complicated in US by superannuation, and those US shares, which were allocated as a bonus and may be granted again.

Please forgive my paranoia but may I ask some more questions:
- if, however unlikely it might be, we were contacted by the IRS before taking any action, would they be likely to accept a plea of ignorance or would we receive penalties? The penalties are ruinous looking.
- if on filing we owed some tax (not sure how, but lets say) would IRS demand taxes owed back further than 3 years?
- Could filing result in IRS chasing a sibling, who may be in the same position?


Thank you all again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks Iota.

The ESTA process just has me and the two kids. They don't qualify for US citizenship. ESTA didn't ask any questions about parentage, from memory, just name, passport details and countries of citizenship.
So all good there.

Spouse would only have spent a couple of months working as a student in the US years ago.

Thanks for pointing out the fix the treaty group. I will investigate.
 

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Our kids, btw, do not qualify as US citizens.
Hooray! :)

- if, however unlikely it might be, we were contacted by the IRS before taking any action, would they be likely to accept a plea of ignorance or would we receive penalties? The penalties are ruinous looking.
It's the FBAR penalties that are ruinous. You can protect against that by backfiling six years of FBARs before you travel.

- if on filing we owed some tax (not sure how, but lets say) would IRS demand taxes owed back further than 3 years?
Very unlikely unless it's a lot of money.

- Could filing result in IRS chasing a sibling, who may be in the same position?
No. But sibling needs to be told.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Thanks again.

Now I need to understand what an FBAR is. :-(
Would FBAR penalties be applied to someone who genuinely does not have a clue of filing requirements?
Would that mean entering the streamlined program?
 

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Thanks again.

Now I need to understand what an FBAR is. :-(
Would that mean entering the streamlined program?
Not necessarily. I didn't (50 years of non-filing :) ). But if it's likely your spouse may owe some tax, it might be safest to do it through Streamlined.

FBAR stands for Foreign Bank Account Reporting. Now officially known as FINCEN114.
(https://www.irs.gov/businesses/smal...t-of-foreign-bank-and-financial-accounts-fbar)

If your spouse has accounts in Australia with aggregated balance > USD10,000 each of the accounts is required to be reported. The reporting is done online. Instructions here:
https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/FBAR Line Item Filing Instructions.pdf

The actual filing of the reports is very easy. It's gathering the information that may be onerous - certainly was for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thank you Nononymus.

Just exploring renunciation:
You are saying that it can be done with out filing?
If we submit a W9 form for US shares, can we later backtrack, renounce and have those shares untouched by IRS?
 
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