In what context? The Spanish healthcare has the same financial constraints that the NHS has.

I suspect there will be people who'll praise both systems and hate both systems.


Brexit of course may or may not have an impact on the eligibility to get healthcare here. That's probably more of a concern than who has the better care.

 

Thank you. The normal day to day context. Especially for older people. Where we live now in UK, general practitioners have 10 minutes to see a patient and determine what is wrong and what treatment to provide. It is difficult for the doctors and you sense the stress they are working under.

I had a heart procedure in Papworth and the treatment was fantastic, but it took from beginning of June to middle of December to go through the tests (MRI, angiogram, x-rays, ECGs, etc) with a serious problem and I was regarded as urgent. I cannot fault or criticise the treatment. Only the time could have been a problem. Luckily I'm still here!

I am thinking, what is it like in Spain? Is the system and treatment good? Better than UK?

 

I can only speak as I find and I have had investigations/operations here (Denia) and found the system very good and at least on a par with the UK.
The major difference in my opinion is after care as in Spain the family is expected to stay overnight/and pop into the hospital during the day to help care for the patient (not medically but washing/help feeding etc)

 

I have always found medical care excellent in Spain, hospitals and surgeries excellent

 

Personally, I have only had GP appointments in the state health system here in Andalucia, but know quite a few people who have been treated in the state system for serious illnesses such as cancer, heart problems, etc. and they have all been happy with the service. I have visited several people who have been hospitalised in the state system and been impressed by the cleanliness of the hospitals and the fact that patients are accommodated in rooms with no more than 2 beds and a bathroom shared between 2 patients.

I find it very easy to make medical appointments at my local health centre, in Andalucia there is a central system which covers every health centre where you can either ring one central number, or make the appointment online (which is what I do), or by text message. Same day appointments are normally available, and doctors will make home visits if requested by 10am if a patient is too ill to get to the health centre. We have two health centres in our town, one is open 24 hrs, 365 days a year (they have an Emergency Department which is always staffed) and the other is open from 8.00 am until 9pm. Doctors do work within time constraints for appointment slots, though, just like in the UK. There is little time for the social niceties or general chit chat, the staff are very professional and businesslike and you just say why you are there, answer any questions the doctor asks, they issue a prescription or request for tests and that's it, next please.

Do not underestimate the language problem, if you don't speak Spanish. Translators are not provided on request, at no charge, as they are in the UK. If you can't communicate in Spanish you are expected to arrange and bring along your own translator (although in Andalucia there is a telephone translation service, but I have never heard anyone say they have used it). In many hospitals (but not all, and not in health centres) they have a team of volunteer translators who can help in various languages.

 

My guess is health care in both Spain and the U.K. is subject to many factors/variables ranging from location,financial investment,staffing expertise ,etc . The resulting outcome being possibly best described as patchy.My own experience of medical care and the health system in Spain was that it was very good and comparable with the UK.
I note from your previous posts you describe yourself as a worrier and as having heart problems and have bought a property in a hilly area,as you ask for advice the best I can offer is ,Ten cuidado.As an afterthought ,if you are concerned re health system you may also need to consider social care ,i guess that depends on whether you are a permanent resident.

 

I live in a town with 30,000 residents. We have two state health centres, one of which also has a 24/7 emergency service & is the ambulance station.

It's very rare that you can't get a next day, or even same day appointment with a GP if you can be flexible as far as appointment times are concerned. Appointments can be made online too, so no need to phone during surgery hours & hang on for someone to answer the phone.

All 3 of us have had referrals to various specialists at the local state hospital & have found that referrals are usually pretty fast. Surgery waiting lists vary depending on the dpartment - but they made the effort to time my then teenager's tonsil operation to fit in around school holidays & even a holiday away!

We've also had cause to use the emergency facilities at the main hospital - including emergency life-saving surgery for my daughter & I can't fault them at all. I was also grateful to have a put you up bed in the same room as my daughter - a private room with a private shower. This is standard in that hospital for all patients.

The home visit aftercare once she was released was excellent, too.

Someone mentioned that family are expected to help with the after care of patients. Yes this is the usual way for things to be done - but (at least in our hospital) there are staff to change sheets etc & help with feeding if you have no family to do it for you.

 

My wife had a bad fall last Monday. On Friday she had her arm/shoulder joint replaced. Hospital care superb. One thing, the hospital expects a family member to be with the patient and if necessary to sleep over.

 

Ouch! Hope she's on the mend now.

Were you aware of the care arrangements beforehand? It is one of the biggest differences between the British and Spanish systems, and takes a lot of people by surprise.

 

I can't compare Spain with the UK but I can compare the situation now with when I arrived here in 2008.

I've seen first-hand the effect of EU-imposed "austerity", i.e. spending cuts, on the Andalucian health service. The staff do their best and are well qualified but are stretched to the limit. Over the last eight years staff have not been replaced, waiting times have increased, there is less choice of prescription meds (generic only), and families staying with children overnight have had to sleep in armchairs because the spare beds were in use for patients. I'm still waiting for an MRI appointment that I went on the waiting list for last November (in the end I went private because I couldn't wait!)

But I live in hope that things will return to how they were. For political reasons, I think that's more likely here in Andalucia than in England.

 

A big thank you to all who have contributed.

From your replies I can see that I should have no fear of health treatment. Probably a typical biased English way of thinking, but this was one of the reasons that I was frightened to take the plunge and leave UK to live in Spain. Now I feel much more relaxed at the idea of living in Spain permanently. Another impression I have is that dental care is better in UK, again based with no experience, so I think I'll ask this question soon!

Thanks again to all, with good wishes for those who have had treatment and are recovering.

 

Dental care is cheaper and in my experience better than the UK so good luck on your move.

 

Pretty much all dentistry is private here, apart from some emergency treatment provided at health centres and treatment for children. I have found the Spanish dentists I have used (albeit for nothing more complicated than an annual check-up and cleaning during the 10.5 years I've been here) to be very good and have all the latest hi-tech equipment. My annual cleaning costs €40 and the hygienist is very thorough, it took over 40 minutes a month or so ago.

 

The difference is with the U.K. That it is subsidised and for lower incomes, and children free. I had root canal, various other things including two crowns for about £250. Quite a high cost in Spain for braces etc.

 

Ok, thank you pedro6 & Lynn R.

Now I don't need to ask the question!

Our decision has now been made this weekend! We shall move to Alcaucín permanently on 01 November, after 2 car trips.

You all have nailed it!

 

No, and I still don't.

 

I can't compare the two anymore because I haven't needed the NHS for over 10 years since we moved here.

However, over 12 months ago, I was diagnosed with two more slipped and ruptured discs (had 4 operations already back in UK). Every step of the 'diagnosis' has taken forever. I have been waiting for over 4 months now for an MRI before they can discuss options.

This maybe the same, better or worse than in UK - I simply don't know.


I've also, recently, been diagnosed with 'possible' bowel cancer. From the initial test, then the colonoscopy then the results of the biopsy took 7 months. I have now been waiting 3 1/2 months to see the expert to, again, decide on next steps.


The actual service has always been excellent but the time taken to see anyone seems to be very poor.

 

Possibly similar in UK. I retired in May last year and after 1 week was getting slight chest pains. 2 ECGs, 1 x-ray, an angiogram, after 3 months a diagnosis of over 90% blockage on one heart artery and over 70% on another. I was considered priority and because I was going to Spain for Xmas I was very kindly brought forward to 2nd week in December as one of the last non-accident/emergency cases. In summary a total of 6 months wait for what my GP told me was serious.

Treatment with 2 stents was excellent, at Papworth. Fantastic, but a long wait.

Of course it would have been immediate if I was having a heart attack. I was told to simply call an ambulance and treatment would be straight away.

 

There are good and bad dentists everywhere, you have to ask around for recommendations. My current one, who is Argentinian, is the best I've ever had. I hope he lives forever!

Bridges, crowns etc are on average one-third cheaper here than in the UK or Northern Europe; people come here especially for dental treatment.

 

Agreed, the issue in the U.K. Is actually finding an NHS dentist. My daughter has most of her treatments done in Albania when she visits her partners family. Remembering of course many many many dentists in the U.K. are from EU countries, filling another gap in the U.K. Healthcare system. Pardon the pun

 

Do you know which regions offer this, Xabia

 

I believe the following:
Andalucia
Canarias
Castilla Y Leon
Galicia
Madrid
Murcia
Valencia

 

The basic answer to the OP's question is "Yes" but it depends on where you are.

Having had pneumonia which necessitated a stay in hospital while they also investigated a "lump" in my right lung and two heart attacks, I cannot fault the service in Spain.

I live in a village (about 4,500 pop.) and we have 24 hour coverage. Out of hours, we have a Dr, a nurse an ambulance and driver at the health centre. The system works well because we have a plastic card which gives access to our medical records so that for the most part, no matter which health centre/hospital you go to, they can access your medical records unlike in the UK, where, if you go to other than your own Dr (e.g. Out of hours or to hospital in an emergency) they have no access to your records so do not know your history, your current medication, any allergies, etc. All right you can tell them if you can remember and are conscious.

 

The system works well because we have a plastic card which gives access to our medical records so that for the most part, no matter which health centre/hospital you go to, they can access your medical records unlike in the UK, where, if you go to other than your own Dr (e.g. Out of hours or to hospital in an emergency) they have no access to your records so do not know your history, your current medication, any allergies, etc. All right you can tell them if you can remember and are conscious.

Still no computer access to patient's records in the UK?
From what I've seen on the health service here (Madrid) it seems to work well. I have friends with serious illnesses are they are very well catered for with references to cancer treatment, diabetis, gout, appendicitis, the severe pain unit, multiple esclerosis...
One difficulty that I have had in the past has been a lack of sympathetic hospital/ clinic staff in general from the doctor in the medical centre to the nurses in hospitals - efficient but no "beside manner". Now in fact I do have a nice, and good doctor. Also I find that if you have an identifiable condition they are on top of it. If you go because you have a pain/ difficulty and you would like to know the cause or what to do to stop it getting worse it's a no go area. Once the problem has escalated and you need to go to some kind of specialist Bingo, the attention is there...

Oh and a neighbour of mine's mother with Alzheimer's is receiving excellent care somewhere in Andalucia. She goes to some kind of school and has "lessons" every day like arithmetic and spelling. She is Spanish of course, but good to know that in some places they are making provision for older people

 

Can you ask your UK doctor/dentist to give you your medical/dental records to bring with you to Spain if you decide to live permanently?

 

I left the UK in 1998 and obtained my medical records from the hospital to bring with me but not dental records.
If you sign a consent and probably pay a few pounds I do not think legally the Dr, dentist or hospital can refuse.

 

In Scotland computerised records accessed immediately. Had to go to doctor in rural Highlands a couple of weeks ago with mum. Glasgow records flagged up right away. Temp doc phoned mum's and immediate treatment

 

Excellent. I hope Scotland can join Europe soon!

 

If you are bringing records from UK you will need to have them translated by somebody who knows medical terminology. They will, however, not be added to your Spanish records but may act as a guidance to your Spanish GP regarding your history.

Hospitals tend to vary. Empathy on behalf of the nursing staff is a low priority and you may find them a little brusque. The Doctors, I have found to be on the whole, good to excellent.

 

I did not go to the expense of having my records translated as the specialist I used in Spain understood the records and you may be lucky.

The bed side manner in Spain in my experience does not exist in fact you will find please and thank you is not used in general, it is the culture and you will get used to it.

 

We were going to do the Convenio after a year but I think we will just do the private route.

 

The big advantage of the Convenio Especial for people who have pre exisiting conditions is that it covers everything, no questions asked.

The private route has certainly worked out cheaper for us. My husband is now 67 and his private cover currently costs €62 per month (same as mine) whereas he'd be paying €157 per month for the Convenio Especial (plus €60 for me).

It is swings and roundabouts, really. There are no limits on treatment under the Convenio Especial (other than those imposed by the system, eg generic drugs may be prescribed for patients in the state system rather than more expensive versions). However, waiting times will usually be shorter in the private system.

The full costs of medication would normally have to be paid for under either system (there are some insurance companies who will reimburse a proportion of medication costs but those policies would be more expensive anyway).

We're thankful we kept our private health insurance on after we became eligible for S1s and could register with the Spanish state system, as we will have that to fall back on should the S1 system be withdrawn either after Brexit or for some other reason (cuts, for example). Although hopefully, having been resident here before 2012, we could take the "sin recursos" route to retain eligibility for state treatment, so long as that remains available.

 

Thankfully at the minute we don't have any pre existing conditions but we might see how it goes in the first year and review it. I was thinking of waiting lists etc in the state system.

 

So far we have found:-

We can buy most meds including antibiotics over the counter, for less than in the UK. If you go in with an example of your UK prescribed meds you can usually buy most of those. Personally I think this is a risky practice, both in terms of safety for the patient and also for accurate record keeping for data analysis of prevalent conditions in an area. Have to say it has been convenient though.

We have only seen private doctors as we don't have our residencia sorted yet so cant use the national system yet. Costs were very reasonable. These 3 doctors were quick and efficient (though one made sure I had to pay for 2 visits when he could, and should, have given me the extra prescription on the first visit). All spoke good English but in both towns there were/are a lot of Brits to cater to.

We have seen that doctors outside the big towns seem to be part-time and cover several areas.

We were originally thinking we might stay here until we are (more) decrepit so asked around about nursing homes and old age care. The results made us reconsider. Spain is not big on these things. As others have said, you are expected to have family to look after you apart from the actual medical care.

 

So far we have found:-

We can buy most meds including antibiotics over the counter, for less than in the UK. If you go in with an example of your UK prescribed meds you can usually buy most of those. Personally I think this is a risky practice, both in terms of safety for the patient and also for accurate record keeping for data analysis of prevalent conditions in an area. Have to say it has been convenient though.

We have only seen private doctors as we don't have our residencia sorted yet so cant use the national system yet. Costs were very reasonable. These 3 doctors were quick and efficient (though one made sure I had to pay for 2 visits when he could, and should, have given me the extra prescription on the first visit). All spoke good English but in both towns there were/are a lot of Brits to cater to.

We have seen that doctors outside the big towns seem to be part-time and cover several areas.

We were originally thinking we might stay here until we are (more) decrepit so asked around about nursing homes and old age care. The results made us reconsider. Spain is not big on these things. As others have said, you are expected to have family to look after you apart from the actual medical care.

There is quite a lot of use made of private carers, often from Ecuador or other countries in S. America and they are, on the whole, quite or very good (from what we have seen.) Most places do have a "Residencia" for the elderly and infirm who have no family and are unable to look after themselves. Many of the Residencias also have a day care option where elderly can go (there is often some transport picking them up) to socialise, giving relief to family members. Of course, I can only comment on what is here in our village but, I believe, similar is on offer elsewhere.

 

Read an article today that there are no equivalent to hospices in Spain due to the difference with families expected to take over the care. Cudeca on the CDS is an exception. Chris Stewart (he of Driving over Lemons) stated that his MIL was just sent home without aftercare when her cancer was diagnosed incurable. This could change now many Spaniards are becoming more mobile and moving farther away from their families.

 

I've known a couple of British people who have had terminal cancer here, and they did get home nursing care visits and palliative home care from doctors (although they both had partners living with them).

 

It's officially better according to the Lancet
They classified Spanish healthcare at number 8 ahead of France Italy, Germany and the UKEspaña, octavo país con mejor sanidad según «The Lancet» y la Fundación Gates
I can only find references in Spanish, sorry

 

Here's access to the report in English:
https://www.wort.lu/en/lifestyle/qu...n_daily&utm_medium=email-0800&utm_content=newsLink&utm_campaign=dailyNewsletter

UK is 30th and the USA is 35th.