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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Whilst I understand moving to another country is a complicated matter, having done it three years ago, I'm Astonished at how many people posting have no idea about residency rules and requirements, including some who already live here :D


Folk seem very fixated on where to live as opposed to can they live. I appreciate where one lives in important but surely it's a waste of time researching if you have no idea if you can live here France or Italy. The first thing we looked at was the various different rules and regulations for various countries, healthcare and overheads, the. We narrowed down country and then we narrowed down area..........

Am I being a bit mean!
 

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Whilst I understand moving to another country is a complicated matter, having done it three years ago, I'm Astonished at how many people posting have no idea about residency rules and requirements, including some who already live here :D


Folk seem very fixated on where to live as opposed to can they live. I appreciate where one lives in important but surely it's a waste of time researching if you have no idea if you can live here France or Italy. The first thing we looked at was the various different rules and regulations for various countries, healthcare and overheads, the. We narrowed down country and then we narrowed down area..........

Am I being a bit mean!
No,not at all.I think sometimes people can be lazy and expect everything done for them without realising how lucky they are to have these wonderful forums for general help but sometimes the mind boggles with some of the questions that get asked.Just seen a post on Facebook from somebody in Velez Málaga asking where they can get Heinz baked beans and soup.I kid you not.I wish we had the internet when we came here nearly 23years ago when it really was chance it and see.I think sometimes some of the inquiries are genuine and others just a wind up where you see a thread only for the person never to be seen again.No disrespect to anybody,just my 2cents worth.
 

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Whilst I understand moving to another country is a complicated matter, having done it three years ago, I'm Astonished at how many people posting have no idea about residency rules and requirements, including some who already live here :D


Folk seem very fixated on where to live as opposed to can they live. I appreciate where one lives in important but surely it's a waste of time researching if you have no idea if you can live here France or Italy. The first thing we looked at was the various different rules and regulations for various countries, healthcare and overheads, the. We narrowed down country and then we narrowed down area..........

Am I being a bit mean!
I think many people genuinely don't have a clue and until Brexit brought immigration issues out into the open, many of those interested in moving thought they could just upsticks and move wherever they liked due to what people thought was a European open door policy. I don't think it's necessarily people being foolish or shortsighted - the EU and immigration issues have been packaged and sold mistakenly in the past. It frightening though how some families are prepared to bundle everyone onto a plane with so very little knowledge of where they are going and without a long term vision. If you're young and single fair enough, if you get run over it's only you you have to worry about, but when you bring into tow other people... We don't seem to get so many enquiries from young singles now though. I suppose Spain isn't in fashion any more. More likely Nepal or the Bahamas
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Before we bought a property in Spain (or even started looking for one) with the intention of moving here eventually, like Megsmum I researched every aspect of property purchasing, taxation, healthcare, etc and the internet was a very valuable resource, although at the time I had no idea these kinds of forums existed.

It must have been much more difficult for those who did this many years earlier, like Tarot650, when the information was harder to come by.

I definitely get the impression from some of the enquiries raised by people about moving to Spain that they imagine it's no different to moving to a different area in the UK and it doesn't even occur to them that they won't be able to carry on paying tax in the UK, there will be hoops to jump through to access healthcare (nor that they'll have to pay for it if they're not state pensioners), nor that they may have difficulty accessing most kinds of services if they don't speak a word of Spanish. I even remember at least one poster asking if their children would be taught in English in a Spanish state school. Errr, no, why would they be?
 

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I think many people genuinely don't have a clue and until Brexit brought immigration issues out into the open, many of those interested in moving thought they could just upsticks and move wherever they liked due to what people thought was a European open door policy. I don't think it's necessarily people being foolish or shortsighted - the EU and immigration issues have been packaged and sold mistakenly in the past. It frightening though how some families are prepared to bundle everyone onto a plane with so very little knowledge of where they are going and without a long term vision. If you're young and single fair enough, if you get run over it's only you you have to worry about, but when you bring into tow other people... We don't seem to get so many enquiries from young singles now though. I suppose Spain isn't in fashion any more. More likely Nepal or the Bahamas
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In some respects PW I agree with you.Have a friend who works for an estate agent in Antequera and his inquiries are getting more limited in age brackets.I think for some of us who moved here probably because of the package holidays we remember as far flung holidays weren't to the fore then.I suppose it's just a sign of the times.Ah well.

Just to say Lynn you are absolutely correct.I am not going to say we did not make mistakes,we did.A couple of humdingers.Embargo on a bank account,embargo on a car,money taken out by the Hacienda.Would we have made these mistakes with the internet or info.available on forums like this?Possibly not.But hey,we are still here.Although I don't post regular on here like a lot of you people If I see a thread and if my limited knowledge can help the person I will try and help but some of the things asked,sorry people,not for me.Respect.
 

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Just to say that I did NOT do any real research before I came here to live, but I fell into the young and "let's see what'll happen" bracket. The plan was to keep on moving. I didn't know I was going to fall in love and spend the rest of my days here, who did? And it was literally, a different age then, 1986, must be around the time Tarot650 came.
Even so, I DID have a job, and I had lived abroad before so I wasn't completely green :)
 

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Just to say that I did NOT do any real research before I came here to live, but I fell into the young and "let's see what'll happen" bracket. The plan was to keep on moving. I didn't know I was going to fall in love and spend the rest of my days here, who did? And it was literally, a different age then, 1986, must be around the time Tarot650 came.
Even so, I DID have a job, and I had lived abroad before so I wasn't completely green :)
We just turned up in 2000 - didn't even know we were coming to Spain and stayed 14 years.
 

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Just to say that I did NOT do any real research before I came here to live, but I fell into the young and "let's see what'll happen" bracket. The plan was to keep on moving. I didn't know I was going to fall in love and spend the rest of my days here, who did? And it was literally, a different age then, 1986, must be around the time Tarot650 came.
Even so, I DID have a job, and I had lived abroad before so I wasn't completely green :)
We left 27th December 1994,drove down in a Fiat Tempra with my record decks,half of my record collection plus 4 or 5 suitcases if memory serves me correct.Did not take us long to find out how cutthroat it was and to sort out true friends from the users and abusers.Ironic really,just been going through a lot of old photo's which I am transferring onto a disco duro.Just found a photo of me DJing in Torremolinos 20years ago.It's not been a bed of roses but the good times far outweigh any bad times we have had.Sort out friends from users and abusers and it's a great life,mind you I would say that.Utmost respect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I think many people genuinely don't have a clue and until Brexit brought immigration issues out into the open, many of those interested in moving thought they could just upsticks and move wherever they liked due to what people thought was a European open door policy. I don't think it's necessarily people being foolish or shortsighted - the EU and immigration issues have been packaged and sold mistakenly in the past. It frightening though how some families are prepared to bundle everyone onto a plane with so very little knowledge of where they are going and without a long term vision. If you're young and single fair enough, if you get run over it's only you you have to worry about, but when you bring into tow other people... We don't seem to get so many enquiries from young singles now though. I suppose Spain isn't in fashion any more. More likely Nepal or the Bahamas
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I totally agree, and it reinforces how ignorant voters were on the topic of immigration during the campaign.

Having said that, regardless of open door policy, I still find the level of knowledge on the basics.... I recently showed an English couple a house near me for a local agent as he spoke no English and they spoke no Spanish. He has health issues.... tried explaining about healthcare etc... they look at me like I'm an idiot... "but" they say -"don't we get free healthcare" : so they're going for private, again tried explaining about pre existing issues......... nothing taken on board, they're due to move over later this year......
 

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The most important thing to do is consider your finances. Plan for worst case scenario. When we thought of moving here from Prague in August 2008 a £ bought 1.22 euros.
We planned for parity.
And that's what it was when we arrived here four months later.
We had already had a third of the value of our income in Czech crowns wiped off because of the global crash so we were prepared.
This 'Spanish dream' people go on about swiftly becomes a nightmare when money is short. You can't feed a family on sunshine.
Sometimes I think people believe Spain is part of the British Empire and that they come like colonial sahibs to the natives....
TV programmes and package holidays have a lot to answer for. You don't know a country until you live in it.
If you are having problems hacking it in the UK chances are your problems will follow you to Spain.
Spain isn't a miracle cure for personal or financial problems.
Oh, and it rains and gets cold at times.
Snows even...
 

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Whilst I understand moving to another country is a complicated matter, having done it three years ago, I'm Astonished at how many people posting have no idea about residency rules and requirements, including some who already live here :D


Folk seem very fixated on where to live as opposed to can they live. I appreciate where one lives in important but surely it's a waste of time researching if you have no idea if you can live here France or Italy. The first thing we looked at was the various different rules and regulations for various countries, healthcare and overheads, the. We narrowed down country and then we narrowed down area..........

Am I being a bit mean!
Yes your absolutely right - personally I blame Judith Chalmers and the ITV holiday program, Wish you were Here,
for starting the rot of ignoring the technicalities of life abroad; if you should fall in love with the idea of
living in your holiday country of Spain. Of course sipping Champagne by the seaside, in the sun ( in the opening
scenes of these programs ), does nothing to dispel the myth that 'life's a beach' in much of Spain,
as well as the Costa del Sol !!


Then from the holiday programs we've had a myriad of Channel 4 relocation programs like A Place in the Sun,
etc, etc where the presenters only concern is for finding their guest couples ideal new home in Spain, on a
budget of £150,000.

No doubt you should write to Channel 4 and ask their presenters to include programs where A Place in the Sun
- queues up at the Police Station for the necessary registration for the Certificado de la Ciudadano de la Union
por Extranjeros, as well as their local town hall ( where they intend to to live ), to register 'On the Padron' -
In order to give their UK viewers, a more balanced idea of the form filling required for Spain.

Although no doubt it might not look very appealing to Channel 4 viewers, with some of these offices looking
like a throw back to the old labour exchanges in the UK - they can always 'jazz it up a bit' by their guests
arriving at the Police Station in Sombrero's for registration and their NIE, maybe even sharing a bottle
of bubbly with other foreigners awaiting registration.

:thumb:
 

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I think many people genuinely don't have a clue and until Brexit brought immigration issues out into the open, many of those interested in moving thought they could just upsticks and move wherever they liked due to what people thought was a European open door policy. I don't think it's necessarily people being foolish or shortsighted - the EU and immigration issues have been packaged and sold mistakenly in the past. It frightening though how some families are prepared to bundle everyone onto a plane with so very little knowledge of where they are going and without a long term vision. If you're young and single fair enough, if you get run over it's only you you have to worry about, but when you bring into tow other people... We don't seem to get so many enquiries from young singles now though. I suppose Spain isn't in fashion any more. More likely Nepal or the Bahamas
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How do you think the EU and immigration issues have been 'packaged and sold mistakenly' in the past?

The freedom of crossborder movement along with the other freedoms within the EU were part of the Single European Act 1987. Nothing was either 'packaged' or 'sold'. I fought a European election campaign as Labour Party candidate at that time and thesubject of the SEA was much discussed on both sides, for and against.
There has been and currently still is no bar to any of the 'four freedoms' as in the SEA, freedoms which, thanks to Brexit, we seem about to lose.
If anything can truly said to have been packaged and mistakenly bought into if not sold it's the whole Brexit package, now beginning to unravel and reveal itself in all its threadbare glory....
 

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How do you think the EU and immigration issues have been 'packaged and sold mistakenly' in the past?
I think that people believed that agreements in EU policy allowed British citizens to move freely between countries and gave them certain rights. This was not actually true as countries could in fact put some restrictions up as did Switzerland, Spain, France... It was believed to be so because it was not clearly explained by politicians and the media
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I think that people believed that agreements in EU policy allowed British citizens to move freely between countries and gave them certain rights. This was not actually true as countries could in fact put some restrictions up as did Switzerland, Spain, France... It was believed to be so because it was not clearly explained by politicians and the media
And because successive governments refused to have quotas, therefore the general public
Have no understanding
 

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Whilst I understand moving to another country is a complicated matter, having done it three years ago, I'm Astonished at how many people posting have no idea about residency rules and requirements, including some who already live here :D


Folk seem very fixated on where to live as opposed to can they live. I appreciate where one lives in important but surely it's a waste of time researching if you have no idea if you can live here France or Italy. The first thing we looked at was the various different rules and regulations for various countries, healthcare and overheads, the. We narrowed down country and then we narrowed down area..........

Am I being a bit mean!
Personally, I don't think that there is anything wrong with people coming onto the forum with no prior investigation done. After all, forums such as this one are informal, all-englobing and easier to read and digest than most formal sources of information.

We (meaning regular posters) usually give the links to those formal sources, experiences and cautionary tales based on real case studies, which then guide the "newbie" in their further research. Doing a huge amount of research and then to be told that 50% is out of date, incorect or does not apply is simply a waste of time!

So, although it may be infuriating for "us" to hear the same questions over and over (and on this topic I do wish newbies would search a litle harder), it is normal and should be expected. Nobody forces us to be here or to reply!

What newbies have to understand however is that they will recieve personal opinions and even mistaken advice from well meaning people and that they should check the information and advice from the forum with the corresponding official source. And if the newbie doesn't agree with the personal opinions they should not get upset and argue!!!
 

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I think that people believed that agreements in EU policy allowed British citizens to move freely between countries and gave them certain rights. This was not actually true as countries could in fact put some restrictions up as did Switzerland, Spain, France... It was believed to be so because it was not clearly explained by politicians and the media
Well, yes, the SEA 1987 DID give them comprehensive rights, rights which were extended when the Blair Government adopted the Social Chapter of the Maastricht Treaty which the previous Tory Government had refused to do.

I can't accept what you say about 'it' (not sure what you mean by that 'it':)) not being properly explained.
It was part of the Maastricht Treaty that each member state could apply for opt-outs and modification of Directives and Regulations. That's how the UK got an opt out from the Working Hours Directive. That's why the UK was able to prevent Sandra from enjoying equal rights to my Teachers Pension as the UK (allegedly at the insistence of Cherie Blair!!!!) applied a 'marriage clause' to certain benefits.

You are confusing 'rights' and 'entitlements'. All EU citizens have equal rights but they do not have the same entitlements which vary according to member states' policies. Brexiteers in their haste to portray the EU as some sort of Soviet successor state ignore or are ignorant of this.

How do you make every citizen aware and cognisant of the details of Government policy? Isn't it a two-way process? How many people will have taken the trouble to read in full the leaked draft document about UK Brexit policy? (I confess, I haven't yet but I've downloaded it to read today, my perrera day off). To return to your opening words: ' People believed...' Ah yes....In 1966 election I remember canvassing in North London and encountering a woman who told me she was voting for Winston Churchill, the current Prime Minister, who had been dead for over a year. Nothing I said could shake her belief. People believed the false promises of the Brexiteers - leaving the EU would be easy, trade deals would be abundant, the infamous NHS money...

There is a huge gap between what people believe and what they know or take the trouble to find out. The information deficit is a huge problem for true democracy in the twenty-first century.

I've replied at length because I always take your posts very seriously and agree with 99% of them but I think you're wrong on a serious current issue here.:) There may be a personal note to the 'getting informed' angle as when I was prospective MEP I really did immerse myself in everything I could learn about the EU so I didn't look a twerp on tv or joint public platforms. Endless nights swotting up on sheep meat regimes and sugar beet quotas may have made me a little prickly, I admit...:)
 

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And because successive governments refused to have quotas, therefore the general public
Have no understanding
Not true. Vital to avoid confusion here.
British Governments have put restrictions on non-EU immigration since 1966. The UK Government has strict quotas now. If by 'immigration' you mean only immigration from the EU you should make that clear. There were in fact quotas on immigration from Romania and Bulgaria.

What I think the UK Government should have done in 2004 was to do as all EU Governments apart from the UK and ROI did, impose quotas on former Soviet bloc states from the get-go.
Such was the demand for skilled and cheap labour from employers that the Government bowed to pressure, a major mistake in my opinion.
 
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