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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I gave PTE (Academic) in Feb 2017 and scored:
L:70, R:79, S:45 and W:90

In May (second attempt) the scores were:
L:70, R:60, S:33 and W:83

I am unable to understand where I am going wrong specially with the speaking section. I am wondering if I should attempt PTE for the third time or give TOEFL a try.

Anyone who has dramatically improved PTE speaking scores or has given both PTE and TOEFL please suggest.
 

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Hi,

I gave PTE (Academic) in Feb 2017 and scored:
L:70, R:79, S:45 and W:90

In May (second attempt) the scores were:
L:70, R:60, S:33 and W:83

I am unable to understand where I am going wrong specially with the speaking section. I am wondering if I should attempt PTE for the third time or give TOEFL a try.

Anyone who has dramatically improved PTE speaking scores or has given both PTE and TOEFL please suggest.
Hello Brother,
It is better to got for PTE but take the help of E2 Language. Just go to youtube and search E2 Language PTE Videos. You will find videos related to PTE Speaksing. Also you can take E2 Language paid membership which will be very helpful for you.
Regards
 

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Hi,

I gave PTE (Academic) in Feb 2017 and scored:
L:70, R:79, S:45 and W:90

In May (second attempt) the scores were:
L:70, R:60, S:33 and W:83

I am unable to understand where I am going wrong specially with the speaking section. I am wondering if I should attempt PTE for the third time or give TOEFL a try.

Anyone who has dramatically improved PTE speaking scores or has given both PTE and TOEFL please suggest.
i personally find navjot brar videos more helpful
 

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Hi,

I gave PTE (Academic) in Feb 2017 and scored:
L:70, R:79, S:45 and W:90

In May (second attempt) the scores were:
L:70, R:60, S:33 and W:83

I am unable to understand where I am going wrong specially with the speaking section. I am wondering if I should attempt PTE for the third time or give TOEFL a try.

Anyone who has dramatically improved PTE speaking scores or has given both PTE and TOEFL please suggest.


I can with most certainty conclude that you are a lady from India. The reason is I know many such people whose general English is decent. However, their PTE scores suggests otherwise. Check your oral fluency & pronunciation. These must be low. Hence you have scored less.

I wouldn't suggest you PTE. Their software is not designed for Indian female voice. People here can debate. However, I know many such instances. You would only burn precious money & time!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I can with most certainty conclude that you are a lady from India. The reason is I know many such people whose general English is decent. However, their PTE scores suggests otherwise. Check your oral fluency & pronunciation. These must be low. Hence you have scored less.

I wouldn't suggest you PTE. Their software is not designed for Indian female voice. People here can debate. However, I know many such instances. You would only burn precious money & time!
Thank you for the input. My oral fluency and pronunciation scores are low; even though I do have a very good command over the language and infact, English speaking is quite good. So I guess you must be right when you say that PTE software is not designed for Indian female voice.

Any lady from India got a good score in speaking section of PTE (if any)? Do add your point of view.

I should start preparing for TOEFL then!

(btw, I had practiced a lot used: E2 language and Navjot Brar content available online along with free Pte practice test before giving PTE).
 

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There are ladies here in this platform from india scoring 90 All. Dont fall for the myth
I had 8+ in each section in the IELTS, and my sister has 80+ in PTE.
Both of us thought our respective exams were fairly simple.

Reading and Listening sections are very easy. You need to pick out the exact word from what you read/hear and answer it. There are no trick questions. It's very straightforward.

For speaking as long as you speak normally, without getting worried, you should be fine. They're looking for your ability to converse, and don't care much about vocabulary or minor grammatical errors.

Writing can be a little tricky, not because of what they ask you to write, but because of how they want the section attempted. You need to format the writing task based on the question, and address each section of the question. Again, they don't care about minor grammatical errors or spelling mistakes.
You and your sister are native speakers?
Thank you for the input. My oral fluency and pronunciation scores are low; even though I do have a very good command over the language and infact, English speaking is quite good. So I guess you must be right when you say that PTE software is not designed for Indian female voice.

Any lady from India got a good score in speaking section of PTE (if any)? Do add your point of view.

I should start preparing for TOEFL then!

(btw, I had practiced a lot used: E2 language and Navjot Brar content available online along with free Pte practice test before giving PTE).

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

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There are ladies here in this platform from india scoring 90 All. Dont fall for the myth
You and your sister are native speakers?



Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


I have already mentioned that people can have their views. It is a fact. Their website boasts that they have collected samples from 10000 people including native speakers.

Also, can you suggest the OP that how she could score better? Her command over written language is quite good; even though her scores suggest otherwise..
 

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Thank you for the input. My oral fluency and pronunciation scores are low; even though I do have a very good command over the language and infact, English speaking is quite good. So I guess you must be right when you say that PTE software is not designed for Indian female voice.

Any lady from India got a good score in speaking section of PTE (if any)? Do add your point of view.

I should start preparing for TOEFL then!

(btw, I had practiced a lot used: E2 language and Navjot Brar content available online along with free Pte practice test before giving PTE).


See, I was bang on target. I personally wouldn't suggest you PTE. Some are more suited for IELTS. It is basically which format you are comfortable with.
IELTS as a general perception is easier than TOEFL. It again depends. I would strongly suggest that you browse YouTube videos on the subject. Give a mock of each test format. Decide for yourself!

I can be so sure since I have spent a bomb coming to this conclusion and in the bargain lost precious time as well..:)
 

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I have already mentioned that people can have their views. It is a fact. Their website boasts that they have collected samples from 10000 people including native speakers.

Also, can you suggest the OP that how she could score better? Her command over written language is quite good; even though her scores suggest otherwise..
I havent given PTE yet. Going abroad to appear in test since its not offered in Pakistan

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

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Would a pakistani female voice be different?. How many tests your wife has so far attempted?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Look I cannot vouch for Pakistani lady's voice..Would guess, it should not be much different from India's.

Well, I know many many instances wherein people (female) who generally have good command over the language struggle with PTE. For instance, look at the OP's two PTE results. How can the test result differ so vastly? She scored 90 something and then 33 in speaking?? Unless, she did miserably bad, it is simply not acceptable to the thinking mind..

In my wife's case, in spite of her English being good, she gave 5-6 PTE tests including two mock..then finally after several IELTS attempts, she got the scores..

Initially we were surprised ourselves with the PTE scores..I am just writing this so that people can benefit from our experience..it is again up to the concerned how he or she wants to take it!
 

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Look I cannot vouch for Pakistani lady's voice..Would guess, it should not be much different from India's.

Well, I know many many instances wherein people (female) who generally have good command over the language struggle with PTE. For instance, look at the OP's two PTE results. How can the test result differ so vastly? She scored 90 something and then 33 in speaking?? Unless, she did miserably bad, it is simply not acceptable to the thinking mind..

In my wife's case, in spite of her English being good, she gave 5-6 PTE tests including two mock..then finally after several IELTS attempts, she got the scores..

Initially we were surprised ourselves with the PTE scores..I am just writing this so that people can benefit from our experience..it is again up to the concerned how he or she wants to take it!
Great insight. People consider ielts as evil but PTE can be troubling for others as well. My wife is appearing in PTE and we are travelling specially outside of Pakistan for this due to no test centers present in Pak. So lets see what happens. Your point is very valid as per your wife experience with PTE

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Let's be honest: two things are happening here. First, Indian accents are notoriously difficult to understand for native English speakers with little or no exposure. I've witnessed countless "accent neutralisation" courses that have some woman with a plummy accent add another layer of incomprehensibility, but the fact remains, it's a tough accent. Second, PTE is automated, and computers are not yet at the level of human ability. Combine the two and you might find the computer struggles. Trying to decipher a strong Indian accent, delivered at pace (which IMHO tends to be a trait for Indian women especially) and you're pushing the boundaries of what natural language processing can do when trained with native English speaker accents.

So go for IELTS, right? Yes and no, I think a good IELTS examiner needs to be careful. They will likely have had vast experience of hearing such accents as they will be based in a location. There's a high chance that they would grade-up speech which your average Aussie would struggle to understand. That benefits nobody.
 

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Let's be honest: two things are happening here. First, Indian accents are notoriously difficult to understand for native English speakers with little or no exposure. I've witnessed countless "accent neutralisation" courses that have some woman with a plummy accent add another layer of incomprehensibility, but the fact remains, it's a tough accent. Second, PTE is automated, and computers are not yet at the level of human ability. Combine the two and you might find the computer struggles. Trying to decipher a strong Indian accent, delivered at pace (which IMHO tends to be a trait for Indian women especially) and you're pushing the boundaries of what natural language processing can do when trained with native English speaker accents.

So go for IELTS, right? Yes and no, I think a good IELTS examiner needs to be careful. They will likely have had vast experience of hearing such accents as they will be based in a location. There's a high chance that they would grade-up speech which your average Aussie would struggle to understand. That benefits nobody.


I have always been impressed with your posts. Here I beg to differ. One common mistake westerners/outsiders do is to generalise India which is simply not possible. We have the best schools here and kids these days I presume have better vocabulary than most outsiders would even think it is possible. Not all Indians have the same accent here. I can go on here..every district in India is different from the other. Coming to the point, PTE should ideally cover all aspects from the test takers point of view. Indian men have scored much better than their lady counterparts. I don't have stats to prove but whatever little information I have in my dealing with people and through following this forum. So if the accent theory is true then it should be also for Indian men.
Well, PTE has very clearly overlooked this fact. Their website mentions some 10000 samples have been collected. Again, it shouldn't affect people in an ideal scenario. Well as a matter of fact, it is affecting. If some stats are available on the test takers, then don't be surprised that a very large number of Indians, perhaps a bulk of the lot take PTE tests.
 

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Great insight. People consider ielts as evil but PTE can be troubling for others as well. My wife is appearing in PTE and we are travelling specially outside of Pakistan for this due to no test centers present in Pak. So lets see what happens. Your point is very valid as per your wife experience with PTE

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Thank you for your kind words. The thing with IELTS is that it is very subjective, especially when they are monitoring writing & speaking. Hence, people tend to score less in these two when compared to listening & reading. People will only complain when they don't get the desired results. Again each test is different. The question is which format, the test taker is more comfortable with! :)
 

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I have always been impressed with your posts. Here I beg to differ. One common mistake westerners/outsiders do is to generalise India which is simply not possible. We have the best schools here and kids these days I presume have better vocabulary than most outsiders would even think it is possible. Not all Indians have the same accent here. I can go on here..every district in India is different from the other. Coming to the point, PTE should ideally cover all aspects from the test takers point of view. Indian men have scored much better than their lady counterparts. I don't have stats to prove but whatever little information I have in my dealing with people and through following this forum. So if the accent theory is true then it should be also for Indian men.
Well, PTE has very clearly overlooked this fact. Their website mentions some 10000 samples have been collected. Again, it shouldn't affect people in an ideal scenario. Well as a matter of fact, it is affecting. If some stats are available on the test takers, then don't be surprised that a very large number of Indians, perhaps a bulk of the lot take PTE tests.
Thanks for the complement, you flatter me ;)

I think I see this from a different angle. Firstly, let's tackle that generalisation point. That's not really a fair challenge. Your point was that "Indian women" will find PTE doesn't work for them. That's a generalisation you made that I ran with. If you're going to challenge my rebuttal, based on the idea that I am generalising, you're actually challenging your own point, because it was you that initially made the grouping. So, yeah, you're right, different accents etc. but your point was on Indian women in general.

Onto the main discussion. Your wording points to where we differ:

PTE should ideally cover all aspects from the test takers point of view.
and

Their website mentions some 10000 samples have been collected. <SNIP> don't be surprised that a very large number of Indians, perhaps a bulk of the lot take PTE tests.
My perception is that you conflate the average profile of the test taker and the target profile for speaking "excellence". The purpose of the exam is to test capability within a native English speaking environment. In reality, what would be ideal would be to train the exam only on Australian accents for DIBP use. That's probably prohibitively expensive and would likely get complaints for the British (they did invent the language, it would be a bit rich to claim they can't speak it.... though looking at cricket, there's a point to be made;) ). The Americans would likely complain also, and as they tend to run the things, I guess we're stuck with their accents being part of the training data.

I digress. Back to the point. By limiting the training data, the system is designed to discriminate accents that are distinct from native speakers. In fact, my argument would be that it is likely the IELTS assessors are more prone to incorrectly rate strong accents because their familiarity with these accents puts them in a position where a) they have a better ear and b) they are unaware of this and assume their ability to detect meaning from the strongly accented speech is typical. It probably isn't, and that's a tough bias to compensate.

Your thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Let's be honest: two things are happening here. First, Indian accents are notoriously difficult to understand for native English speakers with little or no exposure. I've witnessed countless "accent neutralisation" courses that have some woman with a plummy accent add another layer of incomprehensibility, but the fact remains, it's a tough accent. Second, PTE is automated, and computers are not yet at the level of human ability. Combine the two and you might find the computer struggles. Trying to decipher a strong Indian accent, delivered at pace (which IMHO tends to be a trait for Indian women especially) and you're pushing the boundaries of what natural language processing can do when trained with native English speaker accents.

So go for IELTS, right? Yes and no, I think a good IELTS examiner needs to be careful. They will likely have had vast experience of hearing such accents as they will be based in a location. There's a high chance that they would grade-up speech which your average Aussie would struggle to understand. That benefits nobody.
The typical nature of Indian accents and a trait for Indian women that you mention here, might not be applicable in my case. My schooling has been from a convent school and I have lived in the United States for some time; and was complimented for my accent which they referred to as "The Queen's English."
 

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The typical nature of Indian accents and a trait for Indian women that you mention here, might not be applicable in my case. My schooling has been from a convent school and I have lived in the United States for some time; and was complimented for my accent which they referred to as "The Queen's English."


Bang on! This was precisely my point. A lot of westerners/outsiders have a perception that Indians cannot speak fluently. I am convinced after reading your post(s) that you certainly don't qualify for 33 in speaking..
 

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Thanks for the complement, you flatter me ;)

I think I see this from a different angle. Firstly, let's tackle that generalisation point. That's not really a fair challenge. Your point was that "Indian women" will find PTE doesn't work for them. That's a generalisation you made that I ran with. If you're going to challenge my rebuttal, based on the idea that I am generalising, you're actually challenging your own point, because it was you that initially made the grouping. So, yeah, you're right, different accents etc. but your point was on Indian women in general.

Onto the main discussion. Your wording points to where we differ:



and



My perception is that you conflate the average profile of the test taker and the target profile for speaking "excellence". The purpose of the exam is to test capability within a native English speaking environment. In reality, what would be ideal would be to train the exam only on Australian accents for DIBP use. That's probably prohibitively expensive and would likely get complaints for the British (they did invent the language, it would be a bit rich to claim they can't speak it.... though looking at cricket, there's a point to be made;) ). The Americans would likely complain also, and as they tend to run the things, I guess we're stuck with their accents being part of the training data.

I digress. Back to the point. By limiting the training data, the system is designed to discriminate accents that are distinct from native speakers. In fact, my argument would be that it is likely the IELTS assessors are more prone to incorrectly rate strong accents because their familiarity with these accents puts them in a position where a) they have a better ear and b) they are unaware of this and assume their ability to detect meaning from the strongly accented speech is typical. It probably isn't, and that's a tough bias to compensate.

Your thoughts?



Why is it only women from India score less in PTE -speaking and not men? So your logic of Indian accent only applies to women, is it?

My wife is a qualified engineer with many years of experience. I would rate her command over the language as good and most certainly she deserves more than what she could manage in several PTE tests. We spent almost a year to understand what could be the possible issue. We tried every trick in the book. YouTube videos, Mock tests, Tutors, Steven Book, Speaking to countless people, Voice recording, Speech translator, you name it, bet- we have done it!

I am writing here so that people can benefit out of it. Each person may have an opinion but the question is does he have a solution?

You have scored possibly the best anyone can score! It was during our PTE/IELTS struggle days, I got to know your scores. I have been reading your posts since then..

Let me know if you have a solution. You never know whom you might benefit!
 
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