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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All...

I just stumbled on this Forum. Background: I am US/Norwegian dual citizen, and my wife and kids are American. We've been in Berlin since the end of June.

1) I've been told over and over that it is really easy for me to be here as a EEA country citizen. I havent filled out any visa paperwork as a result, merely walked in with my Norwegian passport. Is this true? Is there some form I should have filled out? I got no stamp at all on my Norwegian passport.. its still blank. I am at this point "registered" at my address with a certified "Anmeldungsbestaetigung"

2) Do I have a medical insurance requirement here in Germany ? If so, when do I prove it? Where is the list of what constitutes "acceptable" insurance? I have travel insurance from the US and I'm currently looking into German insurance. I am a physician with plenty of financial resources, but I'm not employed currently here in Berlin, so getting the right insurance has been tricky, without an employer in place.

2) I'm trying to track down the exact requirements for forms/etc for my wife and kids. I read in this forum that it is the "Aufenthaltsanzeige für EU-Bürger und deren Familienangehörige" form ?? I want to confirm this, and would like to find the form on the LABO website. Similarly I wonder about the insurance requirements, and / or financial proof required for my wife, as she is American vs EEA.

3) We had to change the Auslaenderbehoerde appointment to be just AFTER my wife's Schengen visa expires. I was told when we all schlepped over to the Behoerde that it would still be OK, as long as we had the appointment made. Any comment on this? So here visa will expire just before our group appointment at the Behoerde.

thanks for any info!!!

Ben
 

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1. Yes, that's all.
2. Yes, (German) health insurance is compulsory for everybody residing in Germany. Travel insurance is not enough. Register with an insurer of your choice within three months of taking residence - but you'll be billed from the day of arrival, so no point doing it later.
3. The Ausländerbehörde will tell you the requirements and formalities for your family's visa. My understanding is that you have to prove sufficient financial means. They also need health insurance.
4. I don't think it's a good idea to let their visa expire and become illegal overstayers. Ask the Ausländerbehörde for a temporary extension!
 

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Hi All...

I just stumbled on this Forum. Background: I am US/Norwegian dual citizen, and my wife and kids are American. We've been in Berlin since the end of June.

1) I've been told over and over that it is really easy for me to be here as a EEA country citizen. I havent filled out any visa paperwork as a result, merely walked in with my Norwegian passport. Is this true? Is there some form I should have filled out? I got no stamp at all on my Norwegian passport.. its still blank. I am at this point "registered" at my address with a certified "Anmeldungsbestaetigung"

2) Do I have a medical insurance requirement here in Germany ? If so, when do I prove it? Where is the list of what constitutes "acceptable" insurance? I have travel insurance from the US and I'm currently looking into German insurance. I am a physician with plenty of financial resources, but I'm not employed currently here in Berlin, so getting the right insurance has been tricky, without an employer in place.

2) I'm trying to track down the exact requirements for forms/etc for my wife and kids. I read in this forum that it is the "Aufenthaltsanzeige für EU-Bürger und deren Familienangehörige" form ?? I want to confirm this, and would like to find the form on the LABO website. Similarly I wonder about the insurance requirements, and / or financial proof required for my wife, as she is American vs EEA.

3) We had to change the Auslaenderbehoerde appointment to be just AFTER my wife's Schengen visa expires. I was told when we all schlepped over to the Behoerde that it would still be OK, as long as we had the appointment made. Any comment on this? So here visa will expire just before our group appointment at the Behoerde.

thanks for any info!!!

Ben

Hi Ben :)

1) For 90 days you can stay in any EEA country without any obligations, after that, you need to exercise treaty rights: be employed, self-employed, self-sufficient or a full time student. If you state that you are self-sufficient, you need to show 'adequate finances' (whatever that means) and that you are voluntarily health insured.

2) It makes things more difficult that you left things for so long before seeking out information. Within the first 90 days of your stay, you can just apply for your wife's residence card without showing much more than that you are registered in Berlin and that you are married. After that you have to show proof that you are exercising treaty rights (see above). For the first 90 days, travel insurance should be fine, as this is the length of time you can stay as a tourist.

I've looked through all the form PDF files on the LABO web site but the one for family members of EEA nationals does not seem to be available online in Berlin.

Aufenthaltskarte für Familienangehörige von Bürgern der EU (außer Deutschland) und des EWR - Dienstleistungen - Service Berlin - Berlin.de

This is the form used in Munich:

Landkreis München: Formularserver

It should be very similar to the one in Berlin.

3) It will most probably be okay, but better get an extension until your appointment. My greater worry is that your appointment will be after the 90 day deadline and you will need to explain how you are exercising treaty rights. Can you get a job, even part time until the appointment?


Are your children Norwegian nationals? Are they school age and if so, are they currently in school in Berlin?

Just curious - why Berlin? (And why did you move country without getting info on how to get a residence permit for your non-EEA family? Sounds very spontaneous!)

Berlin is my hometown and I can totally see the allure but for most Americans the UK is the number one choice. Do you all speak German?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thx...

thx for your replies.

We are still within the 90 days, but the appointment is not.

I think I'm just going to go to the Abehoerde on Monday and wait for a turn and get the info directly from them.

The trip wasnt spontaneous by any means, but my brother has been living here for 10 years and with some research he assured me that the Norwegian passport would take care of all ills. Seems like this is still true, but maybe I need to push things forward if possible.

We picked Berlin because it is great and with family here it is not a stretch. I'm working on German presently, and making progress, though it is a challenge. My kids are already in school here.

We luckily have good financial means presently, I guess it means proving that to them. These are the details I need, and havent been able to get, trusting the assurances I have gotten so far. Hopefully no stumbling blocks ahead.

Ben
 

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My recent experience with the Ausländerbehörde was quite pleasant, but perhaps that was unusual.

Bring as much documentation with you as you can. Proof of health insurance, financial statements showing income and assets, passports, marriage licenses, birth certificates, professional credentials, your Anmeldebestätigung, proof of the upcoming appointment, the works. Every possibly relevant piece of paper.

Typically the entire family would have to show up for the actual appointment to get the residence permit. I might suggest that your wife accompany you for the first visit (it sucks, standing in line at seven in the morning, freezing your ass off for hours before you can sit on a hard uncomfortable bench for a few more hours) because she's the one who needs her 90 days extended on account of the appointment. Then they can put a little stamp in the passport and everyone will be happy. At the very least bring everyone's passports.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
90 d stipulation?

where is this 90day issue stipulated_? I dont find it anywhere.

Ben


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this is from the LABO website re insurance requirements:

Leaflet on the Health Insurance Coverage Required for Granting/Renewing German Residence Permits
Section 4(1)(2) of the German Residence Act (AufenthG) pertains to the following residence permits: visas, residence permits, settlement permits, and long-term EC residence permits and the Blue Card EC. In accordance with Section 5(1)(1) AufenthG, residence titles are in principle only granted to persons who can secure their livelihood.
Section 2(3) AufenthG states that one component of the ability to secure your livelihood is having adequate health insurance coverage.
Persons who have either mandatory insurance as per Section 5 of Book V of the German Social Security Statute (SGB V), are voluntarily insured as per Section 9 SGB V, or jointly insured as family dependents as per Section 10 SGB V are deemed to have adequate health insurance coverage and required only to prove that they are appropriately registered under the statutory health insurance scheme.
All insured persons who are not registered with a German statutory insurance company must in all cases also prove that their policy provides adequate health insurance coverage. The health insurance coverage of such policies is deemed adequate if it corresponds in its nature and scope to that of the statutory health insurance scheme, i.e. that it specifically does not contain any large-scale exclusions of benefits, require high-percentage excess payments from the insured person, limit the costs reimbursed in any way in the event of illness, or con- tain any expiration or indemnity clauses with respect to the insured's age, the cessation of activity, changes in the purpose of residency, or loss of legal residency status. Such insur- ance coverage may where necessary also be provided by an insurance company based out- side of Germany.
Adequate insurance coverage will in all cases be considered to exist if the Federal Supervi- sory Authority for Financial Services (Bundesanstalt für Finanzdienstleistungsaufsicht) con- firms the relevant insurance policy fulfills the statutory requirements with regard to health insurance in accordance with Section 257(2)(a) SGB V, and the health insurer issues a sta- tement to this effect. The Federal Supervisory Authority will not provide such confirmation if the insurance coverage is time-limited and not automatically extended, or if no surpluses are accrued for pension provisions, namely that the health insurer has not created the policy as a form of life assurance.
As part of the duty to cooperate enshrined in Section 82(1) AufenthG, applicants must submit a written statement from their health insurer that the existing insurance policy fulfils the statutory requirements in accordance with Section 257(2)(a) SGB V.
In addition, when renewing their residence title, all persons who do not have statutory insur- ance must provide a statement that confirms they had health insurance coverage for the en- tire time and that this was not terminated in the intervening period.
This evidence is required in order to prevent health insurance being terminated to save mo- ney and only taken up again to renew the residence title, with the consequence that the per- son has no health insurance protection in the intervening period.
If the applicant cannot provide evidence of continuous health insurance coverage, this justi- fies the suspicion that his livelihood is not sufficiently secured in this respect, and provides grounds for rejecting the application. As a result, the residence title might not then be granted or renewed.
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I think you're confusing two issues here.

My admittedly non-expert understanding of the situation is this.

With no paperwork or visa, a US citizen can only stay in Germany for 90 out of each 180 days (this is commonly known as the tourist visa or Schengen visa). To stay longer, they must obtain a residence permit (Aufenhaltserlaubnis) from the Ausländerbehörde.

To obtain a residence permit, they need to provide a valid reason for staying in the country. This can be study, marriage to an EU national, a job offer for which they have received a work permit, academic research, or, in your case, marriage to an EEA national resident in Germany (I assume that's true - it's not something I'm directly familiar with). However, they ALSO need to provide proof of adequate health insurance.

In other words, the 90 day limit and the health insurance requirement are separate, but related, issues. To stay beyond 90 days you need a residence permit, and one of the things you need to obtain a residence permit is proof of health insurance. Ergo, you wouldn't expect the health insurance instructions to say anything about the 90 day limit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
OK. thanks. I was responding to what ALKB said above, thats where the 90 day question came from.
2) It makes things more difficult that you left things for so long before seeking out information. Within the first 90 days of your stay, you can just apply for your wife's residence card without showing much more than that you are registered in Berlin and that you are married. After that you have to show proof that you are exercising treaty rights (see above). For the first 90 days, travel insurance should be fine, as this is the length of time you can stay as a tourist.
Still a bit confused, I think we will be taking a bench warming trip up to the Behoerde shortly, and try to get this figured out some. More comments are appreciated. Ben
 

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I see the confusion now. There are two separate 90-day issues at play here.

US citizens (your wife and possibly kids) can't be here beyond 90 days without a residence permit.

EEA citizens (you and possibly kids) can't be here beyond 90 days without your proving self-sufficiency to "exercise treaty rights" - my reading of the above, no direct experience.

I would suggest both you and your wife get down to the Ausländerbehörde sooner rather than later, and bring lots of paperwork.
 

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Also, bring biometric photos of everyone (Google around, the photo shops typically do 4-6 photos for 13 euro and it's safer than using a machine) and the kids' passports, and cash if there's a fee. You never know, you might get lucky and they do the whole thing in one go and you won't need the appointment.
 
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