[Clic Clac]

I've started wading through my return today & don't remember this one from previous years :

BA, BIC, BNC À IMPOSER AUX PRÉLÈVEMENTS SOCIAUX

Indiquez ci-dessous : le montant net des revenus agricoles, revenus industriels et commerciaux ; revenus non commerciaux qui ne sont pas soumis aux cotisations et contributions sociales par les organismes de sécurité sociale (URSSAF, MSA...) ; le montant des plus-values professionnelles à long terme exonérées d'impôt sur le revenu en cas de départ à la retraite (art. 151 septies A du code général des impôts). Ces revenus et plus-values seront soumis aux prélèvements sociaux par la direction générale des finances publiques (DGFIP).

Revenus nets

Pour les régimes micro, reportez le montant après abattement forfaitaire pour charges.
Micro BIC : 71 % pour les ventes et assimilées ; 50 % pour les prestations de services.
Micro BNC : 34 %. Micro BA : 87 %


I think I'm a Micro BIC .

If my total CdA was 10,000 €, and I've already paid full cotisations, what is the answer?

 

[EuroTrash]

I think I'm a Micro BIC .

If my total CdA was 10,000 €, and I've already paid full cotisations, what is the answer?

Is the answer not box STA? Into which you enter your "chiffre d'affaires brut" i.e. your gross turnover as declared to URSSAF.
Boxes STA to STL are the boxes for "micro-entrepreneur (auto-entrepreneur) ayant opté pour le versement libératoire de l'impôt sur le revenu".

Which I think is what you are, aren't you?

If you're getting tangled up in working out your own abattements, I suspect you're looking in the wrong section . (Well I hope so cos I put mine in box STE and ignored the rest!)

 

[Clic Clac]

Is the answer not box STA? Into which you enter your "chiffre d'affaires brut" i.e. your gross turnover as declared to URSSAF.
Boxes STA to STL are the boxes for "micro-entrepreneur (auto-entrepreneur) ayant opté pour le versement libératoire de l'impôt sur le revenu".

Which I think is what you are, aren't you?

If you're getting tangled up in working out your own abattements, I suspect you're looking in the wrong section . (Well I hope so cos I put mine in box STE and ignored the rest!)

Thanks ET.

Did you mean box STE at the top? (Can't see it anywhere on mine).

Is that versement libertoire where you 'Pay As You Go' each month?

I haven't opted for that.

I've already declared my total in Box 5KO 'Ventes de marchandises et assimilées ' for 'Régime micro BIC'.

Is there a Rule of Thumb that you only declare it once (somewhere), or are you often having to repeat the figure in different places.

Sounds like you've gone for 'the once'. 😚



* I see there are 'Informations' at the end of Stage 3 to signal something that you've not been certain about.

I'll put a line in there for cover.

 

[EuroTrash]

Did you mean box STE at the top? (Can't see it anywhere on mine).

When I say "S", I think I mean "5". Been travelling all night and me por ol' eyes are more than a tad blurry.
I'm doing the paper return and it is on the first page of 2042 C PRO. It's the first section on the form, straight after where you enter your personal details.

Is that versement libertoire where you 'Pay As You Go' each month?

I haven't opted for that.

Oh right. Sounds as if you need to ignore what I said, then.
I pay mine each quarter, always seemed simplest to me.
Sorry Clics, I haven't a scooby how it works for people that haven't taken that option.

Right I'm off to bed now, bonne nuit.

 

[EuroTrash]

I'm finally framing up to declare overseas accounts. But I have a doubt over the second question which asks for your address au 1 janvier de l'année. I initially assumed this means 1.1.21. But then it occurred to me that it could also mean 1.1.22.
The answers would be different depending which it means, and I'm anxious to get it right first time because I have seven of the blighters to declare, so I thought I would save myself a little time by filling page 1 in once and then photocopy it six times.
I am sure to make a pig's ear of it ultimately, but if I could at least feel confident the first page right that would be a start.

 

[conky2]

1.1.21 . You are declaring for the tax year 1/1/21 until 31/12/21 so that has to be the relevant date. Tis what I have always put.

 

[BackinFrance]

They are not interested in 2022 so not interested in 1.2.22. You are declaring up until midnight 2021.

Which goes to show that stressing out and staying up until well into the next day is counterproductive!

 

[EuroTrash]

Hmmm .
Thanks both for your thoughts.
I take your point about them being interested in 2021 not 2022 BUT if you look at form 2042 it very clearly asks for your adresse au 1 janvier 2022 first of all. Then after that it asks about changes of address during 2021 or 2022. So on that basis I have also put my 1.1.22 address on the 2042 C PRO and 2047 - which don't say anything other than "Adresse" - and it seems a bit confusing to be putting a different address on 3916 than all the rest.

So although I think you are almost certainly right I'm a bit inclined leave it for now and ask when I go to my appointment.

BiF - Not getting my sleep is certainly counterproductive, unfortunately there's not much option but to stay awake until well into the next day when you're making a journey that takes around 20 hours end to end

 

[BackinFrance]

They of course need your current address for contact purposes, your address at 1.1.22 for taxe foncière and, where applicable taxe d'habitation. But for your non-French accounts.

Anyway, do what you want, it's your declaration not mine. Nor is it my fault that you had to travel from wherever you are currently living for your appointment with the fisc and return within a timeframe which I suppose was dictated by your affairs in the UK. But sleep is still very important and you still have time to submit your paper declaration.

 

[EuroTrash]

They of course need your current address for contact purposes, your address at 1.1.22

Yes of course they do.
So since they have all the info about your addresses and the date you moved on that form, the next thing I wonder is why they ask for addresses at all on the other forms since it doesn't have any obvious relevance to the information you provide on those forms.. It's especially hard to see the relevance of an address outside of France, that was only valid for two months of the year in question, to a declaration that isn't applicable to non-residents. The more I think about it the more unfathomable it all seems and I wish I hadn't started wondering in the first place.

Anyways no panic BiF and I certainly didn't mean to imply that anything is your fault. Apart from not being sure what to write in the boxes it's all under control, the deadline isn't until the 19th and my appointment is next Wednesday the 11th. I have every faith that they'll whizz through it and put everything as they want it and take it off my hands.
The journey was simply to get from Wales where I had been for personal reasons, back to Normandy where hopefully I will be able to chill out undisturbed for the next few days. Then I have a mammo to look forward on Monday, which is something I never enjoy what with the physical discomfort of the procedure itself and the mental discomfort of having to trot around from one room to another without a stitch on to hide your modesty. But hopefully I'll manage to not get too wound up over that and I'll be ready to start this season's campsite job all chilled and bright-eyed and bushy-tailed on the 15th.
And this one is DEFINITELY, DEFINITELY the last.

 

[Bevdeforges]

Just been wrestling with the ClickImpot files and I think I have all the numbers in that need to go. But I am letting everything "settle" in the files before going back and checking it all out.

Something "wicked" in me can't help but "suggest" that maybe, just maybe, the January 1 address they want for the 39-whatever form could also be the address you have on the account. Anyhow, you've got you appointment and you can ask the nice tax person when you're there. And do report back on what you find out.

Was almost tempted to say that you just seem to "move about too much" - certainly for the Fisc's take on things. But I'm just grumpy after fighting the tax forms most of the afternoon. I will say that the latest version of the ClickImpot is much better than last year's but some of the hoops you have to jump through to get the right numbers in the right spots defy logic somehow. And somehow our ultimate tax due number always seems to come out the same every year. No idea how they do that!

 

[EuroTrash]

Was almost tempted to say that you just seem to "move about too much" - certainly for the Fisc's take on things.

Yeah well. I moved once, intending to stay for the long term, then Covid happened and everything changed, in particular the job that I moved for, disappeared into the ether, and I ended up coming back. I'm sure I can't be the only one that had to change their plans due to Covid.

You sound to have been having real fun this afternoon too Bev, which makes me feel a bit better although I know it shouldn't

One more teensy question if I may, just to double check- when it talks about "actifs numériques", that just means bitcoin and cryptocurrency stuff doesn't it, and nothing to do with normal online accounts?

 

[BackinFrance]

One more teensy question if I may, just to double check- when it talks about "actifs numériques", that just means bitcoin and cryptocurrency stuff doesn't it, and nothing to do with normal online accounts?

Yes, that's right.

 

[Bevdeforges]

I think you're referring to the caption on part 4 of the form 3916, where they refer to comptes actifs numériques. I believe they expect you to give the URL (website address) of your online bank accounts.

Last year there were two separate forms: 3916 and 3916bis - one for "bank accounts" and the other for comptes numeriques. The only difference in what they wanted was asking for the URL for the comptes numeriques. (And actually comptes d'actif translates as "asset account" which is what a bank account is.) You're going to have to fill out a form for each of the individual foreign accounts that Wise has for you - they give you the IBAN information, account number and the address of the bank that handles the account. Last year I just filled in the URL for Wise along with the physical address of the bank because Click Impot didn't allow you to fill in the 3916bis form (which was just the comptes d'actifs numériques). Haven't checked yet but if Wise is giving you all the detail information, you're most likely going to have to report each currency account separately. (Yup, royal PITA, but hey, that's what taxes are all about.)

Another question you can ask at your appointment and report back the answer. I tried last year with ClickImpot but all they could tell me was that if I had to file a 3916bis (which wasn't available on their system), I'd have to file on paper. I just improvised on the bank account form and the Fisc seems to have been happy with the result.

 

[BackinFrance]

If you fill in the comptes numériques actifs you will get taxed at 30%,it's for bitcoin etc.

 

[EuroTrash]

Yes I've done a separate form for each Wise account, I remembered that from the last time I did this because I contacted Wise and they told me what to do. In fact I even found the thread where I posted their reply verbatim, how about that: post 5 on Wise -- Is It a Bank?

I'm still not convinced these are classed as actifs numériques though. I certainly hope not because I've entered all 5 of the blighters as current accounts, I've already had several goes at it and wasted heaps of paper and printer ink because I started off writing MICRO ENT in the box where it asks Forme juridique de l'entreprise, then having done them all I belatedly I decided I'd better check. Turns out you have to enter a code and I should have been entering 01 for entreprise individuelle.
Enough is enough I'm not doing all that again unless Monsieur Fisc insists!

EDIT sorry BiF, posts crossed

 

[EuroTrash]

So right out of the blue I just had a phone call from a polite and earnest person at the tax office who is conscienciously preparing himself for my rdv next Wednesday. He wanted to make sure in advance that I wasn't going to spring any difficult questions on him beyond what I'd said in my message. We went through my form and he confirmed I'd put everything in the right boxes. He also tactfully broached the issue of why I hadn't submitted a declaration last year, because he'd found one for 2019 in my dossier but not one for 2020, so he was wondering whether perhaps I might have submitted it late? - he was so obviously trying not to sound as if he was accusing me of manquer-ing à mon devoir that it was quite funny! When I explained he seemed relieved, said that he didn't my full dossier in front of him because the tax service moved from Argentan to Alençon earlier this year and not everything got transferred. (You'd think he could look at my online account but perhaps he can't.) Then he said he hoped I wasn't going to have to to make a special journey to Alençon just for to see him and since I seemed to have done everything right, did I still feel I needed the RDV? So I bent his ear about all the comptes à l'étranger and said that in any case I would feel happier if he would cast an eye over it, and he said he quite understood.

It's nice because whilst I wasn't exactly stressed about the appointment, I'm even less stressed now. And I think I might just print off the exchange of messages we had last year when I said Do I need to declare anything at all this year? and they messaged back and said No.

There you go, I just thought I'd share this because there is sometimes a tendency to regard the tax people as ogres whereas really they are little petals. (Well some of them are, some of the time at least.)

 

[bhamham]

I have a rdv next week at the tax office in Nantes. I filed in 2017 and then moved back to the US. I exchanged a few emails with the tax office in Paris and they told me I needn't file for 2018, so maybe I should bring copies of those emails. They've blocked me from the system so I need to get that straightened out too. I hope I get some nice person like you have ET.

 

[EuroTrash]

Just reporting back. I handed in my forms this morning, hopefully all done if not quite dusted, and all I have to do now is wait for the avis.

I exchanged a few emails with the tax office in Paris and they told me I needn't file for 2018, so maybe I should bring copies of those emails.

@bhamham I think it would be a good idea to take copies along. I offered him mine of my own accord, he didn't mention it but I thought I would broach it, and he read it and gave me it back, then later on having thought about it he said, Can I have that email again, I think I'll take a photocopy of it to attach to your dossier to head off any queries.

The answer to the question about which address to put on your foreign accounts pages is, the address as of 1.1.22. I told him it hadn't been clear to me and I had puzzled hard over it, and with a jolly laugh he agreed that it wasn't very logical but this year's address is what they want. So I set about writing my address on eight forms, and that's when he nipped off to take a copy of my last year's exchanges about not needing to submit a tax form.

I forgot to check about comptes numériques, but I'm pretty confident that they are bitcoin and not ordinary online bank accounts.

He also said he's just heard that the deadline for paper forms has been extended to 31 May, dunno if it's worth making a separate thread for this since there don'( seem to be many of us doing paper declarations?

 

[bhamham]

Good going ET.

My meeting got cancelled. I booked a RDV with the SPF-E folks and not the SIP who I should have contacted. The SIP at two nearby locations are fully booked until June. I emailed my last contact at the tax office at Paris 11th but her email address is invalid now. I can't get into the system to mon espace where they advise me to go to the tax office to present my identity. I love these challenges!
Anyway, I'm just going to file a paper return like I did in 2017 and make a RDV in the summer to sort it all out. It shouldn't be a big deal it's only pension income and some bank interest.