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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I am writing this post to ask about how to give up an American citizen ship. I am currently a student who is about to graduate and for one of my general classes we did a poll of student in the northern sector of state and discussed how people felt about their education (mainly engineering).

The private and top university students loved it; however; the "lower" tier hated their life.
----When asked why the top student loved their positions they stated that they felt they university cared and that they have opportunities given to them
----Lower tier stated that they hated being in the region they were and that no company that was worth while even cared. Some even stated how they were laughed when applying for internships.

I was happy with my position until I listened to the "lower tier" students more and realized that I am treated in the same manner. I would like to give my citizenship because of how I am treated by the professionals around me and how I ( as a mechanical engineering who is about to graduate and has a bio-medical engineering internship) very little opportunities when I graduate simply because I could not afford to go to a bigger university.

I have already submitted my paperwork to dropout and leave and I am currently looking up construction and PMC jobs in other countries with about 23 other engineering students. I have filled it out because I will have about $7,000 which will help me leave (with very little)

I do not like it here and how I am treated. So can someone please give me insight to how I can give up my citizenship and leave? This information will be given to other engineering students as well

thank you
 

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I think you're looking at it from the wrong end.

You have some issues with which you're not happy. You want to leave the US. But where will you go? In which country will you gain some other citizenship? And why will your situation improve in that other country? Why will you get a good job there?

Keep in mind that as a US citizen you can travel, visa-free, to a very large number of countries in the world. But you can't just settle and work there. That requires a different type of visa, and often that is predicated on you having a job. You might think that's unfair, but it's exactly the same for people who want to come work in the US. So you are going to have to:

  1. Decide on a likely country
  2. Visit that country and have a look around
  3. Perhaps learn another language
  4. Somehow get a long term visa
  5. Get a job
  6. Work for quite a few years
  7. Apply for citizenship
  8. Renounce your US citizenship

Or you could stay in the US, work hard and make a career, then travel the world with more than $7,000 and re-think the whole thing.
 

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I didn't quite make the connection either. To use an analogy, it would be like saying that your stomach hurts so you want to get some foot surgery. What's the connection between your possession of U.S. citizenship and the particular problem you're trying to solve? I missed the connection.

But to answer your question directly, in broad outline, you would need to possess another citizenship first. (Otherwise you would be stateless, and that'd be a huge problem.) You would make an appointment at a U.S. embassy or consulate overseas -- you can only renounce U.S. citizenship outside the United States. Typically you would need two visits, one for the consular officer to explain the process (and its consequences and absolute finality), and the other to complete the process. You would pay a fee of $2350. U.S. tax and financial reporting would have to be settled up, per normal. (Renunciation does not terminate any past legal responsibilities.) If you are a high net worth individual you would likely be subject to an Expatriation Tax. Your particulars will be forwarded to the U.S. Internal Revenue Service (just in case you haven't fully and correctly settled your tax and financial reporting affairs), and your name will be printed in the U.S. Federal Register for all the public to see. Your U.S. passport will be cancelled, of course, and you will receive a U.S. Certificate of Loss of Nationality (CLN).

Although future short tourist or transit visits to the United States may be possible, they are by no means guaranteed to former U.S. citizens. There are former U.S. citizens who have found it difficult or impossible to travel to the United States. (Roger Ver is a recent example.) For example, if you've committed a "crime of moral turpitude" then loss of U.S. citizenship probably also means you won't be stepping foot in the United States after loss of U.S. citizenship, even to connect to another international flight.

If you have U.S. financial assets they would ordinarily become subject to mandatory 30% tax withholding upon the loss of your citizenship. You'd have to file a U.S. tax return (1040NR) to claim back some or all of that withholding if you're entitled to get it back, but you would have to wait until the tax filing deadline and IRS processing of your tax return to get your withholding back. That can easily be 15 months or more when the IRS has kept your money and not paid any interest on it. U.S. financial institutions are often reluctant to hold the assets of former citizens living overseas, and there is no law requiring them to maintain such assets. So they may close your accounts, and that could be inconvenient if they are U.S. tax-advantaged accounts (such as IRAs). If you qualify for U.S. Social Security benefits then you'll need to check to make sure Social Security would still pay those benefits to you as a former citizen. (It depends on your other citizenship and your country of residence.) If you qualify for U.S. Medicare that becomes moot because former citizens without the right of residence in the United States cannot take advantage of Medicare medical coverage. Medicaid coverage -- if you're destitute and need nursing home care, for example -- is lost. Social Security SSI (disability insurance, primarily for the poor) is lost. You cannot transmit U.S. citizenship to your future children if you no longer possess U.S. citizenship. (Some people for that reason alone decide to wait until after their childbearing and adoptive parent years before renouncing U.S. citizenship since they'd prefer their children have more citizenships that are then available to them to make their own decisions.)

....But back to the basic question: what problem(s) are you trying to solve, and what's the connection with renouncing U.S. citizenship?

I happen to be a U.S. citizen, but I'm not an engineering student, I'm not an intern, and while companies are not individuals capable of "caring" -- I'm not sure that even makes sense -- most of my colleagues at work are caring people. If I were to renounce U.S. citizenship none of those facts would change, so...what's the connection?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I didn't quite make the connection either. To use an analogy, it would be like saying that your stomach hurts so you want to get some foot surgery. What's the connection between your possession of U.S. citizenship and the particular problem you're trying to solve? I missed the connection.

But to answer your question directly, in broad outline, you would need to possess another citizenship first. (Otherwise you would be stateless, and that'd be a huge problem.) You would make an appointment at a U.S. embassy or consulate overseas -- you can only renounce U.S. citizenship outside the United States. Typically you would need two visits, one for the consular officer to explain the process (and its consequences and absolute finality), and the other to complete the process. You would pay a fee of $2350. U.S. tax and financial reporting would have to be settled up, per normal. (Renunciation does not terminate any past legal responsibilities.) If you are a high net worth individual you would likely be subject to an Expatriation Tax. Your particulars will be forwarded to the U.S. Internal Revenue Service (just in case you haven't fully and correctly settled your tax and financial reporting affairs), and your name will be printed in the U.S. Federal Register for all the public to see. Your U.S. passport will be cancelled, of course, and you will receive a U.S. Certificate of Loss of Nationality (CLN).

Although future short tourist or transit visits to the United States may be possible, they are by no means guaranteed to former U.S. citizens. There are former U.S. citizens who have found it difficult or impossible to travel to the United States. (Roger Ver is a recent example.) For example, if you've committed a "crime of moral turpitude" then loss of U.S. citizenship probably also means you won't be stepping foot in the United States after loss of U.S. citizenship, even to connect to another international flight.

If you have U.S. financial assets they would ordinarily become subject to mandatory 30% tax withholding upon the loss of your citizenship. You'd have to file a U.S. tax return (1040NR) to claim back some or all of that withholding if you're entitled to get it back, but you would have to wait until the tax filing deadline and IRS processing of your tax return to get your withholding back. That can easily be 15 months or more when the IRS has kept your money and not paid any interest on it. U.S. financial institutions are often reluctant to hold the assets of former citizens living overseas, and there is no law requiring them to maintain such assets. So they may close your accounts, and that could be inconvenient if they are U.S. tax-advantaged accounts (such as IRAs). If you qualify for U.S. Social Security benefits then you'll need to check to make sure Social Security would still pay those benefits to you as a former citizen. (It depends on your other citizenship and your country of residence.) If you qualify for U.S. Medicare that becomes moot because former citizens without the right of residence in the United States cannot take advantage of Medicare medical coverage. Medicaid coverage -- if you're destitute and need nursing home care, for example -- is lost. Social Security SSI (disability insurance, primarily for the poor) is lost. You cannot transmit U.S. citizenship to your future children if you no longer possess U.S. citizenship. (Some people for that reason alone decide to wait until after their childbearing and adoptive parent years before renouncing U.S. citizenship since they'd prefer their children have more citizenships that are then available to them to make their own decisions.)

....But back to the basic question: what problem(s) are you trying to solve, and what's the connection with renouncing U.S. citizenship?

I happen to be a U.S. citizen, but I'm not an engineering student, I'm not an intern, and while companies are not individuals capable of "caring" -- I'm not sure that even makes sense -- most of my colleagues at work are caring people. If I were to renounce U.S. citizenship none of those facts would change, so...what's the connection?
I dont want to be in a country with so much opportunity for so few but the greater masses who would love to have even the slightest opportunity get nothing.

It is terrible to see so many American universities who are suppose to make "leader" disrespect other student because of a "name". Most people I know in "weaker" universities are there because of financial reasons; however, they are now looked at as the lower educated person and someone who is not worthy.

It is terrible and it is beyond disrespectful to the people their heart out to be something but in return get nothing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I think you're looking at it from the wrong end.

You have some issues with which you're not happy. You want to leave the US. But where will you go? In which country will you gain some other citizenship? And why will your situation improve in that other country? Why will you get a good job there?

Keep in mind that as a US citizen you can travel, visa-free, to a very large number of countries in the world. But you can't just settle and work there. That requires a different type of visa, and often that is predicated on you having a job. You might think that's unfair, but it's exactly the same for people who want to come work in the US. So you are going to have to:

  1. Decide on a likely country
  2. Visit that country and have a look around
  3. Perhaps learn another language
  4. Somehow get a long term visa
  5. Get a job
  6. Work for quite a few years
  7. Apply for citizenship
  8. Renounce your US citizenship

Or you could stay in the US, work hard and make a career, then travel the world with more than $7,000 and re-think the whole thing.
I speak 5 languages. Like I told the other person who posted. I am upset with how this country treats its talent. It is utterly insane and terrible
 

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OK, but what does any of that have to do with possession of U.S. citizenship?

I don't live or work in the United States, but I happen to be a U.S. citizen. At last reliable count over 4 million individuals could be described the same way.

U.S. citizenship is a particular package of rights, privileges, and (a very few) obligations. No more, no less. U.S. citizens have no geographical limits. At least one U.S. citizen is in space right now, and there's even at least one U.S. citizen living in North Korea, of all places. If you want to go move to -- I don't know -- Belize, to pick a random example, then go move to Belize. You can already do that if you're otherwise able to do that.

I'm completely missing the connection so far.
 

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OK, regardless of your reasons, there are a couple of things you're missing before you can give up your US citizenship.

The first is a second nationality. You can only renounce your US citizenship at a US Consulate and these are only located outside the US. (Oh, and just FYI, it will cost you $2350 to renounce - at least that's the fee at the moment.)

So first of all, you have to move somewhere else, establish residency and then get a second nationality. Most countries I know of require anywhere from 2 to 10 years of legal residence in order to naturalize. (And legal residence often requires that you hold down a job and pay local taxes for some period of time.) The residence requirement may be reduced if you marry a local national, serve in their military and/or perform some service to the country of particular merit. A few countries offer nationality if you can show that one of your parents or a grandparent is or was a local national and eligible to transmit their nationality to you.

It can be done, but it's not a quick, nor an easy process. Check the websites of the Consulates for some of the countries that interest you (particularly those with a national language that you already speak) and start doing some traveling to scope out your possibilities.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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I dont want to be in a country with so much opportunity for so few but the greater masses who would love to have even the slightest opportunity get nothing.

It is terrible to see so many American universities who are suppose to make "leader" disrespect other student because of a "name". Most people I know in "weaker" universities are there because of financial reasons; however, they are now looked at as the lower educated person and someone who is not worthy.

It is terrible and it is beyond disrespectful to the people their heart out to be something but in return get nothing.
All the drama aside - where do you plan to go? The Woodstock Generation is retiring and so are love, peace and free love.
 

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Happiness and content comes from within rather than situational. It sounds like you are allowing your ear to be filled with discontented youth surrounding you. Typically interns aren't treated in the highest regard irregardless of your education. Dropping out of school is usually not a good plan no matter where you live. Get an education in the USA or apply for a student visa elsewhere. Don't move to England if you are unhappy with the way you are treated due to your education. There is very much a tier system in the UK based on not only your education but your family history and connections. There is even a divide based upon where you live. A sound plan would be to finish your education and spend a gap year travelling to see if there is another country that fits your desires. Many people are desperate to move to the USA for the job opportunities and won't care if they are treated less than their peers. I think the latest numbers in Greece are 60% unemployment and in Spain 80% of 25 and under are unemployed? You should give yourself the opportunity to travel and visit other countries and meet those in the workplace elsewhere but I think you will find the grass may not be greener.
 

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AI m looking into China or southeast asia
You seem to be putting the cart before the horse, here.

Most countries require applicants to have a degree or some other form of formal qualification plus work experience in their field. To teach English in China, for example, you'd need to be an English native speaker, have a Bachelors degree and at least two years of teaching experience.

Which languages do you speak?

Have you really already dropped out of uni? How much do you have left before you earn your degree?

Maybe finishing your education abroad would be a good idea? It might put things into perspective and/or confirm that you really want to live elsewhere.

Germany for instance doesn't have tuition fees as such (not even for international students), offers a post study work permit and if you then at some point make it to a naturalisation application, Germany will require you to give up your US citizenship. Sounds like a match made in heaven ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You seem to be putting the cart before the horse, here.

Most countries require applicants to have a degree or some other form of formal qualification plus work experience in their field. To teach English in China, for example, you'd need to be an English native speaker, have a Bachelors degree and at least two years of teaching experience.

Which languages do you speak?

Have you really already dropped out of uni? How much do you have left before you earn your degree?

Maybe finishing your education abroad would be a good idea? It might put things into perspective and/or confirm that you really want to live elsewhere.

Germany for instance doesn't have tuition fees as such (not even for international students), offers a post study work permit and if you then at some point make it to a naturalisation application, Germany will require you to give up your US citizenship. Sounds like a match made in heaven ;)
Thank you for the response. I speak multiple languages and I am graduating December 2016.

I am looking toward South East asia
 

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What second citizenship do you possess or, if you don't possess a second citizenship, which one will you seek?

Southeast Asia is not chock full of countries that easily grant their citizenships. There's no St. Kitts here. ;)

Interestingly the World Happiness Report released its 2015 update just 6 days ago (as I write this). According to that report, the United States ranks #15 in the world among the 158 assessed countries (Figure 2.2). That's really rather good -- top 10% -- notwithstanding that cohort of apparently depressed interns you found. ;) There are no countries in Southeast Asia that outranked the United States in that report. Singapore scored the highest among Southeast Asian countries, but Singapore is far behind the United States at #24. Thailand is next within Southeast Asia at #34.

According to that report, the top three are Switzerland, Iceland, and Denmark. Maybe cheese is an antidepressant? :)
 

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You seem to be putting the cart before the horse, here.

Most countries require applicants to have a degree or some other form of formal qualification plus work experience in their field. To teach English in China, for example, you'd need to be an English native speaker, have a Bachelors degree and at least two years of teaching experience.

Which languages do you speak?

Have you really already dropped out of uni? How much do you have left before you earn your degree?

Maybe finishing your education abroad would be a good idea? It might put things into perspective and/or confirm that you really want to live elsewhere.

Germany for instance doesn't have tuition fees as such (not even for international students), offers a post study work permit and if you then at some point make it to a naturalisation application, Germany will require you to give up your US citizenship. Sounds like a match made in heaven ;)
Not necessarily a correct statement
https://www.verwaltungsservice.bayern.de/dokumente/leistung/25665437265
 

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My husband and I have spent a considerable amount of time in SE Asia.....Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, S. Korea, Laos, Hong Kong, Malaysia....
You're concerned about an unfair privilege system in the USA??
You've seen nothing until you visit some of these places....You're concerned about an unfair education advantage??
You'll be happier seeing limbless people begging in the street, and people almost moving them down with massive brand-new SUV's ??
Homeless barefoot children, that will never be able to get to a school, being taken advantage of by ruthless perverted adults??
If you really want citizenship one of these countries....are you comfortable with never being granted a visit visa to many countries??
If you're willing to denounce US citizenship for a 'principle'..... good luck, I hope you find what you're looking for!!!
 

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Which definition?
If the fee is higher than the applicant's monthly income (of their full time job in Germany which is a requirement for the application, I have heard of some federal states to look at household income for this, too), they can apply to keep their citizenship but it's all at the discretion of the local naturalisation department.

Usually, people can expect to keep their original citizenship because renunciation would be unreasonable if their home country demands X amount of years of military service first or they would have to travel to the country itself and that would mean going into a war zone or similar.

So, yes, Americans are unlikely to get out of this.

Moot point, though if the OP wants to go to Asia.
 

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My husband and I have spent a considerable amount of time in SE Asia.....Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, S. Korea, Laos, Hong Kong, Malaysia....
You're concerned about an unfair privilege system in the USA??
You've seen nothing until you visit some of these places....You're concerned about an unfair education advantage??
You'll be happier seeing limbless people begging in the street, and people almost moving them down with massive brand-new SUV's ??
Homeless barefoot children, that will never be able to get to a school, being taken advantage of by ruthless perverted adults??
If you really want citizenship one of these countries....are you comfortable with never being granted a visit visa to many countries??
If you're willing to denounce US citizenship for a 'principle'..... good luck, I hope you find what you're looking for!!!
Couldn't have said it better myself. USA may not be the most egalitarian society but they are far from the least.

Life is not always easy and won't be handed to you on a silver platter. But if you work hard you can make your own opportunity.
 

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Thank you for the response. I speak multiple languages and I am graduating December 2016.

I am looking toward South East asia
Well, the first step in this plan is to start doing some traveling to the countries that interest you and make them "research trips" rather than tourist holidays. You'll need to assess your ability to actually find a job and make your living somewhere else. Plus, you'll need a chance to decide for yourself whether conditions "there" are significantly better than what you're finding the US. In many cases, you may be substituting one set of problems/issues for another.

But given that you'll have to live and work somewhere for "several" years before you'll even have the opportunity to give up your US citizenship, you'll have plenty of opportunity to learn just what you're getting into. Or you may simply find other motivation for living wherever you decide on. Or not.
Cheers,
Bev
 
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