[Lynn R]

This new law could well cause problems for owners who rent out properties to tourists but don't declare the income for tax.

Una norma obligará a las webs de alquiler vacacional a informar a Hacienda del negocio | Diario Sur

 

[xabiaxica]

About time too!

 

[Overandout]

Hopefully the next step will be to ensure that the propertiesa are adequately equipped with fire prevention, evacuation and other H&S facilities.....

We live in hope!

 

[Megsmum]

Here in Extremadura the Junta is now seriously on the case. They now have a department solely for researching un registered holiday lets. I know of people who advertise on airbnb have had letters asking for them to show their paperwork covering both Spanish and Immigrants. The policy is that ALL properties must be registered, my understanding is also that they have brought in another level to cover the airbnb type property. I think it is correct, from a personal point of view why should I work two days a week pay tax, declare income etc, but you rent out a spare room €30 pn and pay nothing, declare nothing. :fencing:

 

[Juan C]

The letting rules are decided by each Region, so with the wide variations, they do not server in general to protect the people renting.

The rules were not brought in not to protect tourists but to support the hotel lobby who think it will make people rent hotels rooms rather than private apartments. Different market of course

OK the owners should pay the tax, but if they do, they will pass it on to those who are renting or they may just stop letting:

= less accommodation = less visitors = less income for Spain = increased unemployment = more damage to the property market, et al.

Looks Like a loss, loss situation for Spain.

 

[95995]

The letting rules are decided by each Region, so with the wide variations, they do not server in general to protect the people renting.

The rules were not brought in not to protect tourists but to support the hotel lobby who think it will make people rent hotels rooms rather than private apartments. Different market of course

OK the owners should pay the tax, but if they do, they will pass it on to those who are renting or they may just stop letting:

= less accommodation = less visitors = less income for Spain = increased unemployment = more damage to the property market, et al.

Looks Like a loss, loss situation for Spain.

Methinks you are using faulty reasoning, although I agree that the rules have not been introduced to protect tourists and do go some way to protecting the hotel industry (and other accommodation types that register and pay taxes). The rules have also been introduced to address tax evasion.

Of course, I can see that those who rent out properties on airb'n'b and other platforms might have a different view and feel that they are being inappropriately targeted and hard done by.

 

[Pazcat]

To be fair it really does seem more hotel lobby mafia first then any other possible benefits that will not be thought through and implemented poorly, second.
Which also does seem to be way most things are done here anyway.

Hey I'm all for business' to be registered and people to pay their share in taxes and what not but you only have to look into the rules in Andalusia to show who is lining the pockets.
I mean all guests must be registered to the police or GC is a tremendous waste of everybody's time and resources.
Among all the other ludicrous crap required.

 

[Alcalaina]

Hopefully the next step will be to ensure that the propertiesa are adequately equipped with fire prevention, evacuation and other H&S facilities.....

We live in hope!

Not always possible in old village houses. Modern hotels with fire escapes etc aren't everyone's cup of tea; let people know the risks and make their own choice?

 

[Isobella]

Not always possible in old village houses. Modern hotels with fire escapes etc aren't everyone's cup of tea; let people know the risks and make their own choice?

Very true. I have sometimes been concerned when stopping in some smaller hotels that are old period places. Especially with the iron bars on the only window. They could still have regulations like carbon monoxide and fire alarms though.

 

[Overandout]

Not always possible in old village houses. Modern hotels with fire escapes etc aren't everyone's cup of tea; let people know the risks and make their own choice?

That is a possibility, but why should the choice be with the guest when renting privately, when all hotels must provide the legally required levels of safety?

I stayed in a hotel last weekend which was in a 14thC convent and the owners had manged to comply with the rules and obtain an operating licence.

Why should the owners of rental apartment be exempt? If you can't comply with the requirements established for any other business, you won't get a licence....

This is discussed here (in case anyone else finds such stuff interesting!!):

LOS APARTAMENTOS TURÍSTICOS PARTICULARES, “EN EL LIMBO”, EN MATERIA DE SEGURIDAD CONTRA INCENDIOS

 

[Isobella]

There are so many rental sites that i wonder if it will be cost effective. A lot of people would have to be employed to trawl the sites and link up with the persons tax record..or lack of. I suppose there are wear and tear allowances and other costs too etc.

 

[Pazcat]

Just write it in to the building code then, make it a requirement for all households.
People rent long term in these death traps daily.
I may even live in one.

 

[Overandout]

Just write it in to the building code then, make it a requirement for all households.
People rent long term in these death traps daily.
I may even live in one.

But that is the problem!

The codes are different for residential building and hotels. When people start using residential properties as hotels without "upgrading" to the corresponding code's requirements they "could" be setting themselves up for a hefty liability in case of an incident.

But as the article explains, as there is no formal recognition of the tourist apartments in either code, the owners will insist that they are simply short term residential lets, whereas the hotel owners feel agrieved by this "loop-hole".

I can understand the hoteliers TBH, but that may be just me...

 

[Pazcat]

Ahh but it is apples and oranges and any legislation should be able to make that distinction.

The French seem to have a good system in place with their set up for Gîtes, I have said in the past that this type of registration and requirements would surely make a whole lot more sense than trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Also the best part about such a system is it doesn't matter what the hoteliers have to say about it because it is none of their business and rightly so.

 

[95995]

'To be fair' - these rental platforms push up housing prices and push local people out of town, often far from their work. There are myriad reasons to take action - IMHO. The move happens to suit the hotel lobby - why shouldn't it?

 

[95995]

Ahh but it is apples and oranges and any legislation should be able to make that distinction.

The French seem to have a good system in place with their set up for Gîtes, I have said in the past that this type of registration and requirements would surely make a whole lot more sense than trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Also the best part about such a system is it doesn't matter what the hoteliers have to say about it because it is none of their business and rightly so.

But France also has a problem with the holiday let platforms. Sure, they are at least starting to address it. So here, it's not just a 'hotel' lobby that's unhappy, it's the whole of the legal holiday accommodation industry - i.e. hotels, B&Bs, gites, camping. Oh, and it's not obligatory for gite owners to be members of Gites de France.

 

[Juan C]

I appreciate my knowledge is very limited on this.

However, my son who has two apartment in Spain which he used to let to holiday-makers throughout the year, stopped doing so when the new regulations came into force. Hacienda don’t get any tax from him any more.

One of the apartment he keeps for his own holiday use, the other has been occupied by a friend, who is on a very low income, for coming up to 5 years, totally free of rent. The friend pays the Electric and water only. My son prefers to take the loss rather than comply with the new rules, which would result in a lot of inconvenience and much lower net income. He also does not have the maintenance and repairs costs associated with letting, damage, wear and tear, theft etc.

I have a friend who has been in the rental business for many years. She is always desperately looking for properties to let. The market in her experience has dried-up since the introduction of the new rules. She says many owners who used to are no longer letting. More hits for Hacienda’s income.

I also am aware of other properties which used to be let, are no longer available.

As I said my experience in this area is small but if my snap-shot is a reflection generally, then Spain’s potential income from tourists is in trouble. Unless of course they are all now staying in hotels !

 

[Alcalaina]

Sadly the people who will be hit hardest are low income households who literally do what Airbnb was originally intended for, i.e. rent out a spare room in their house. They provide a useful service to low-budget travellers/toursts and earn a bit of cash at the same time. They can't afford to install fire escapes etc. and their guests wouldn't expect that.

I suppose it was inevitable that such a good idea would quickly become mega-commerce with lots of unwanted negative effects.

 

[95995]

Sadly the people who will be hit hardest are low income households who literally do what Airbnb was originally intended for, i.e. rent out a spare room in their house. They provide a useful service to low-budget travellers/toursts and earn a bit of cash at the same time. They can't afford to install fire escapes etc. and their guests wouldn't expect that.

I suppose it was inevitable that such a good idea would quickly become mega-commerce with lots of unwanted negative effects.

Do you really believe that was what Airbnb was originally intended for? Even if it was (and I very much doubt it), it very quickly changed - pretty much as soon as it hit countries outside the US.

:rofl:

 

[95995]

I appreciate my knowledge is very limited on this.

However, my son who has two apartment in Spain which he used to let to holiday-makers throughout the year, stopped doing so when the new regulations came into force. Hacienda don’t get any tax from him any more.

One of the apartment he keeps for his own holiday use, the other has been occupied by a friend, who is on a very low income, for coming up to 5 years, totally free of rent. The friend pays the Electric and water only. My son prefers to take the loss rather than comply with the new rules, which would result in a lot of inconvenience and much lower net income. He also does not have the maintenance and repairs costs associated with letting, damage, wear and tear, theft etc.

I have a friend who has been in the rental business for many years. She is always desperately looking for properties to let. The market in her experience has dried-up since the introduction of the new rules. She says many owners who used to are no longer letting. More hits for Hacienda’s income.

I also am aware of other properties which used to be let, are no longer available.

As I said my experience in this area is small but if my snap-shot is a reflection generally, then Spain’s potential income from tourists is in trouble. Unless of course they are all now staying in hotels !

Are you sure it was the new rules? After all, you say one of your son's apartments has been occupied by a friend for coming up to 5 years.