[milary]

Hi!

Does anyone have a link to a government page that explains the correct process for hiring someone to do home improvements (like painting furniture, or walls, wallpapering, etc.)

It's my understanding that painting isn't covered by CESU (but painting furniture and cabinets seems to be a gray area).

For example, what documents are needed by law and how does the employer register the payment?

Thank you!

 

[EuroTrash]

https://www.travauxbricolage.fr/conseils-bricolage/cheque-emploi-service-cesu/

"CESU travaux peinture
Même constat si vous devez réaliser des petits travaux de peinture telles que des finitions. Il est possible de payer des petits travaux de peinture en chèque emploi service. Attention, si votre projet concerne de gros travaux de peinture ou la rénovation de votre maison, ce chéquier sera inutilisable. Mais pour de petites pièces, payer son peintre en chèque emploi service est possible à condition qu’il accepte ce type de paiement."

 

[milary]

Thanks, that's super helpful! Do you know what kind of contract is needed to start work and to end it? And if it's the employers responsibility to make sure that the contractor / artisan is registered properly in some way?

I just read this: http://www.neteem.com/en/wp-content/uploads/Contractor_risks_in_France.pdf and now I'm super confused!

 

[EuroTrash]

Do you know what kind of contract is needed to start work and to end it? And if it's the employers responsibility to make sure that the contractor / artisan is registered properly in some way?

As per the other thread. The process is totally different depending on whether you operate within CESU or whether you look for a registered professional.

If you engage a professional then it is indeed the client's legal responsibility to ensure that that person is correctly registered, and it's wise to also check that they have the obligatory insurances.

(NB you risk confusing yourself if you talk about being an "employer" in relation to artisans. If you use CESU you are an employer and your workers are employees. If you use an artisan you are not an employer, you are a client and the service provider is either a self-employed service provider, or a business that sends out one of its own employees.)

 

[milary]

I figured it's best to keep this thread separate since it's not about CESU, and it's about hiring an artisan. (I am thinking that because it is painting, then I should be considered a "client", and it would not be done through CESU).

I think the word "artisan" is what I needed (thank you!). I googled "hiring an artisan in france" and got a lot of helpful results, like this one

Thanks again for the advice!

----

As a side note, I read this, which may be helpful for expats:
"Artisan Anglais will only accept legally registered traders providing a service in English, the numbers may appear different to Siret numbers but can still be checked out with the appropriate authorities in the region where they are based. All registered workers should be immatriculated with the Centres de Formalites des Entreprises (CFE) at their local Chambres de Commerce, Chambre de Metiers, Tribunaux de Commerce, or the URSSAF, Services Fiscaux, or regional office of the INSEE."

also:
"The only real ways to check if someone is registered for all trades they advertise are:

1. Ask to see his/her "carte d'indentification" issued by the local Chambre de Metiers which lists the trades on the card. This is a white card with green writing on the cover, and everyone has to have one.

2. Contact the Chambre des Metiers and ask direct.

3. Ask to see insurance documents for responsabilité civile and decennial which are the two obligatory insurances in France. The insurance document will show and list the items or trades which the artisan is insured to undertake."

 

[Bevdeforges]

This is the information from CESU about contracts for people you're paying in this manner:
https://www.cesu.urssaf.fr/info/acc...t-de-travail/contrat-travail-obligatoire.html

If you are hiring an artisan, that means you are hiring someone who has a business registration and a SIRET/SIREN number. You should get a devis (estimate or proposal) from an artisan describing the work to be done and the price for that work as well as the payment terms. Signing the devis constitutes your "contract" with the vendor.

I'd be a bit wary of that Artisan-Anglais site you linked to. This seems to be a private enterprise - and at least on the Ile de France link, there seems to be virtually no one listed as an "Artisan-Anglais" whatever that is supposed to mean. I believe this is simply a listing service, not any sort of official registration of English speaking artisans.
Cheers,
Bev

 

[EuroTrash]

Artisan Anglais[/URL] will only accept legally registered traders providing a service in English, the numbers may appear different to Siret numbers but can still be checked out with the appropriate authorities in the region where they are based. All registered workers should be immatriculated with the Centres de Formalites des Entreprises (CFE) at their local Chambres de Commerce, Chambre de Metiers, Tribunaux de Commerce, or the URSSAF, Services Fiscaux, or regional office of the INSEE."

also:
"The only real ways to check if someone is registered for all trades they advertise are:

1. Ask to see his/her "carte d'indentification" issued by the local Chambre de Metiers which lists the trades on the card. This is a white card with green writing on the cover, and everyone has to have one.

2. Contact the Chambre des Metiers and ask direct.

3. Ask to see insurance documents for responsabilité civile and decennial which are the two obligatory insurances in France. The insurance document will show and list the items or trades which the artisan is insured to undertake."

There are also several online registers where you can check that a person is registered, eg
https://www.infogreffe.fr/
https://www.societe.com/
although in the case of an artisan these won't necessarily show all the activities they are registered for. So you can do preliminary checks on an artisan before you contact him, but getting sight of their trade card is better.

 

[milary]

I also just found this link which says:

https://www.urssaf.fr/portail/home/...culier-employeur/travailleur-occasionnel.html

This heading concerns jobs that do not fall within the scope of personal services and can not be reported through Cesu. In particular, these are employees who work at your home for the following jobs:

-storage cellar or attic,
-move,
-construction, maintenance and repair of buildings belonging to structural, finishing or finishing trades (mason, plasterer, painter, etc.),
-maintenance or repair of networks and equipment using gas, water and electricity.

As a casual worker employer, you are responsible for the declaration and payment of your employee's contributions and social contributions. The provisions of the labor law apply.

and this: https://www.urssaf.fr/portail/home/...lleur-occasionnel/modalites-declaratives.html

Employer's declaration
This declaration is used to apply for registration as an employer and to declare your employee.
It must be done at Urssaf within 8 days of hiring your employee.
Each quarter, you receive from Urssaf a simplified nominative declaration which you are required to complete.

and this page has a good overview: https://www.urssaf.fr/portail/home/...-du-travail-dissimule/comment-les-eviter.html