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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I will be classed as a micro entrepreneur when I move to France. Does this mean that after 3 months I can register under healthcare system and would I get full cover?

If my husband is part of the business does he qualify too?

What kind of private insurance would we need and what sorry of cost?
 

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Hi,
your right to healthcare in France will initially derive from the fact that you have been resident in France for more than 3 months.

Depending on your turnover, you'll pay social security & other social contributions under the micro-entrepreneur régime.

I can't give you any info about any health insurance in the meantime but I'm sure that there are others on the forum who will!

A micro-entreprise is by definition "uni-personelle"; but there is a statute of "conjoint-collaborateur" who can also pay his social dues and enjoy all the rights that derive from them.
At least in theory; I asked about that at my local CCI (chambre commerce & industrie) and was told that although this was technically possible, in their knowledge the RSI (régime social des independents) never billed the conjoint's contributions thus never paid them into the URSSAF (...//...) thus said conjoint never had any derived social rights (unemployment, professional accident, pension, sick leave etc). Is this just a local phenomena or what?

New President Macron pledged to dissolve the much-hated RSI who bill all contributions to self-employed including micro-entrepreneurs. There will be a lot of changes coming in 2018. Some are known and others just speculation. Perhaps you are familiar with websites like:
https://www.lautoentrepreneur.fr/
https://www.portail-autoentrepreneur.fr/

Husband's healthcare will derive from yours; he will be your "ayant droit".

Standard health coverage is not full, ie 100%; it's about 70% for most things.
You've surely heard that we all have "top-up" health insurance in France to cover the rest - dentist & opticians especially.
It's difficult to choose among all the formulas on offer by private companies. Again, I won't recommend any in particular.

Don't hesitate with any further questions ;)
 

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When you register a business, in theory your healthcare starts immediately. The 3 month residence requirement only applies to inactifs, not to workers (or retirees). In practice, obviously it takes a certain length of time for the paperwork to be issued.

A micro entreprise works best as a one-person business. If your spouse works in the business you have a choice of "conjoint collaborateur" or "conjoint salarié". Both entail paying social contributions. Working together does negate some of the advantages of micro - as Poloss says it was specifically designed for small one-person businesses - and if you want to work as a partnership you may be better choosing a different business structure.

The "ayant droit" status for adults no longer exists. Only children (or in some cases, vulnerable adult dependents) can be accepted as ayant droits under PUMA. Since January 2016 every adult must apply for healthcare in their own right. So if only one of you works, the other would wait for 3 months and then apply to join PUMA as an inactif/inactive.
 

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Careful here - unless it has changed, the "conjoint collaborateur" only pays in for retirement, not for health cover. As Poloss mentioned, in essence they are considered "ayant droit" of the entrepreneur (though they have done away with the ayant droit designation - just means that what the entrepreneur pays in goes to cover both but the amount remains the same).

Isn't there some requirement that an AE must pay in a certain minimum amount before the health cover is considered "active" if they have no other source of health cover? You can't just register as an AE, have no or next to no turnoever, so pay no cotisations and expect to be covered - or I don't think you can anyhow.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So when we arrive in France we would need to register as a residence and after 3 months could then be considered for state healthcare? We would then purchase top up insurance.
 

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There is no "registration" for residence. You need to be able to show your "statut" for living in France - i.e. what your source of financial support is, whether a job, a business or a pension of some sort. "Looking for work" is not generally considered an adequate statut for living in France.
Cheers,
Bev
 

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Isn't there some requirement that an AE must pay in a certain minimum amount before the health cover is considered "active" if they have no other source of health cover? You can't just register as an AE, have no or next to no turnoever, so pay no cotisations and expect to be covered - or I don't think you can anyhow.
Cheers,
Bev
I think that under PUMA, your healthcare attestation as a micro is issued as from the date you start the business, and then if at the end of the year it turns out that you haven't paid sufficient cotisations you will then billed for "cotisations subsidiaires" at the end of the following calendar year. PUMA is more joined up than CMU was because the fisc and URSSAF noww share information, a person's income declaration is now cross-linked to their cotisations record.
But I could be wrong about this.

"So when we arrive in France we would need to register as a residence and after 3 months could then be considered for state healthcare? We would then purchase top up insurance."
Residence isn't a thing you register for, it's a thing you prove. As inactifs you arrive, and you live here for 3 months, and then you go along and prove you have met the requirements for 3 months' "regular and stable" residence. But you have to follow the correct procedures according to status. If in fact you have registered a business and are economically active, then you cannot apply for healthcare as an inactif.
 

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If you declare that your micro entreprise opens its activity on 1st Jan 2017 and opt to declare your turnover by trimestre, you have up to 31st July to file your declaration for your first trimestre.
Although you declare & pay online now, that's a long time for the first contributions to arrive at the URSSAF!
Makes me wonder about "from when on are healthcare rights solely derived from micro entrepreneur valid & working?"

PS - thanks for correcting me about "ayant-droit" status no longer existing except for ... etc, etc
and husband having to apply for own healthcare if "inactive"
 

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If you declare that your micro entreprise opens its activity on 1st Jan 2017 and opt to declare your turnover by trimestre, you have up to 31st July to file your declaration for your first trimestre.
Although you declare & pay online now, that's a long time for the first contributions to arrive at the URSSAF!
Makes me wonder about "from when on are healthcare rights solely derived from micro entrepreneur valid & working?"
Yes it is, and PUMA is quite new and there isn't a lot of info on how it works in practice yet. But I believe inactifs are billed retrospectively for the calendar year aren't they? their droits are opened as of the date they applied (provided their application is successful), and they don't receive their first bill until the end of the year. So it wouldn't surprise me if the system is kind of the same for micros - healthcare starts straight away and it is all totted up at the end of the year to see whether sufficient cotisations were paid during the year or whether they owe anything extra. But I don't know for sure.

It may be change if/when RSI and CPAM merge, but I think you'll find that at the moment, if you write on your CPAM form that you have a business in France (or even if you don't write it on your form but the computer picks up the fact that you have a current siret number), CPAM won't process your application because people who run businesses fall outside CPAM's remit..
 

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Will you have any other income when you come to France such as UK rents pensions etc because if not then you will struggle to live as a micro entrepreneur frankly
If you have other income it may be better to rely on that in order to obtain healthcare.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
We will have an income from savings to live on, so really it would be better not to register as a micro entrepreneur?
 

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Are you actually planning on making a go of a micro-entreprise? Cause if your interest is solely for the health cover, it's probably way more bureaucracy than it's worth.

You will need to report your worldwide income to the French tax folks - with whatever accommodations there are in the UK-French tax treaty to avoid double taxation - and once enrolled, your charges for health cover will be based on your worldwide income (I think it is).
Cheers,
Bev
 

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The French cottoned on years ago to expats starting up a business doing very little turnover in order to get into the healthcare system hence there is now a minimum turnover required but you can make additional payments.
As you do not say what your business is we cannot advise how succesful you will be but ask yourself could I live in the uk on the same amount of money that I will have coming in in France as on balance the cost of living is about equal
 

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So, I have a question on this topic

We know an American living near St. Etienne who moved to France several years ago to be with his French girlfriend. He doesn't work and lives off of savings and, I suppose, her salary (which is pretty high). They're not married.

I think he moved in 2013. Although he goes back to the U.S. once or twice a year for several weeks (less than a month), he's certainly a French resident.

In response to something he said when we were commiserating about doctors, I asked him recently if he had a Carte Vitale, and he said no -- he was told when he moved that he doesn't qualify for one. He's been paying 100 percent of his health care costs out of pocket.

I thought he would qualify after so many years of being a resident, and I'm thinking of encouraging him to be more aggressive and insistent about obtaining one. I have a feeling that either the person who told him he didn't qualify was misinformed or was addressing an initial situation right after moving to France that's no longer the case.

I'm curious what those who may be more knowledgeable than I about qualifying for a Carte Vitale in France would say. I'm not that familiar with the details, because in my case everything was taken care for me by my employer so I didn't have to become an expert for my own needs.
 

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The PUMA thing, which included health cover by residence rather than having to have a certain level of contributions, only came into effect last year I think it was. So if your friend has just been "assuming" that he is ineligible, it may be simply because the law has changed.

However, the other issue could be that of his "statut" - basically, he needs to have some recognized source of income - normally it's salary, pension or "living off the interest" if inactif and living from savings. Have him take a look at the Ameli website and under the tab "Droits et démarches" there is a list of the various situations and how one claims their rights - though he may have difficulty because he seems to "fall between the cracks" (and we all know how tricky things get in that case!).
Cheers,
Bev
 

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I found this text 6 months ago:
https://www.urssaf.fr/portail/home/...puma-et-de-l/de-la-cmu-de-base-a-la-puma.html

:)bonne lecture:)

Certains bénéficiaires de la protection universelle maladie sont redevables d'une cotisation annuelle dite « subsidiaire ».

Personnes redevables de la cotisation maladie subsidiaire

Sont redevables d'une cotisation annuelle, les personnes :

- qui ne perçoivent pas de revenus d'activité ou dont les revenus tirés d'activités professionnelles exercées en France sont inférieurs à 10 % du plafond
de la Sécurité sociale (Pass) ;

- et dont les revenus du capital sont supérieurs à un 25 % du Pass éventuellement majorés des moyens d’existence et éléments de train de vie (les modalités d’évaluation doivent être fixées par un décret à paraitre).

Personnes exonérées de la cotisation maladie subsidiaire

Sont exonérées de cette cotisation :

- les personnes percevant des revenus d’activité supérieurs au seuil de 10 % du Pass ou dont le conjoint, marié ou pacsé perçoit des revenus d’activité supérieurs à celui-ci ;
- les personnes ayant perçu une pension de retraite, une rente ou une allocation de chômage au cours de l'année. Il en est de même, lorsqu'elles sont mariées ou liées à un partenaire par un pacte civil de solidarité, pour l'autre membre du couple.

Modalité de calcul

Le taux de la cotisation est fixé à 8 %.

Le calcul est différent selon que les revenus sont inférieurs à 5 % du Pass ou compris entre 5 et 10 % du Pass. Dans les cas, il fait intervenir un certain nombre de facteurs.

Deux composants de la formule sont liés au Pass. Cela permet d'actualiser la formule automatiquement chaque année :

D : 25 % du plafond annuel de la Sécurité sociale (9 654 € en 2016) ;
S : 10 % du Pass (3 862 € en 2016).

Les deux autres composants sont liés à la situation personnelle du bénéficiaire de la PUMa, qui elle aussi est susceptible d'évolution :

A : base de calcul de la cotisation. Elle est constituée de revenus fonciers, de capitaux mobiliers… et de l'ensemble des moyens d'existence et des éléments de train de vie pris en compte (décret à paraitre) ;
R : montant des revenus tirés de l'activité professionnelle exercée en France.

Si les revenus d’activité professionnelle sont inférieurs à 5 % du Pass, le taux est appliqué à la base de calcul (A) minorée d'un montant égal à 25 % du Pass (D) : soit 8 % x (A - D).

La cotisation est proratisée si l'assuré ne relève qu'une partie de l'année de ce régime PUMa.

Si les revenus d’activité professionnelle sont compris entre 5 % et 10 % du Pass, la formule est la suivante : 8 % × (A - D) × 2 × (1- R / S).

Les cotisations seront automatiquement calculées suite à la déclaration de revenus grâce aux informations transmises par l’administration fiscale.

Les revenus pris en compte sont ceux de l'année précédant l'année au cours de laquelle la cotisation est recouvrée. La contribution PUMa due au titre des revenus 2016 sera à payer en fin d'année 2017.

Il s'agira de la première exigibilité de cette cotisation subsidiaire.
Principaux textes

Article L380-2 code de la Sécurité sociale
Articles R380-3 à 9 code de la Sécurité sociale
Articles D380-1 à 5 code de la Sécurité sociale
 
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